S to Porsche Taycan

[IchDochNicht]

Here's one reference off the top of my head ...
Porsche Taycan 2-Speed Rear Transaxle: Performance Modeled

Interesting... I'm just wondering why you would need more torque from standstill, or at low speeds. It's not as if Tesla doesn't need ESP to control the power because it would spin the wheels otherwise.

I don't think Porsche is afraid of it being a failure point. Porsche cars are traditionally complex, but are also very reliable these days.

 

[Mike Robinson]

I have a Cayenne and love it too! Also an Aston Martin but don't drive it too much....just love cars and willing to wait for the newest and coolest EV on the planet assuming it is still here in the next two years!

Sounds like the new Pininfarina Battista is perfect for you!

 

[buyer123456]

Interesting... I'm just wondering why you would need more torque from standstill, or at low speeds. It's not as if Tesla doesn't need ESP to control the power because it would spin the wheels otherwise.

I don't think Porsche is afraid of it being a failure point. Porsche cars are traditionally complex, but are also very reliable these days.

It depends on the design, maybe the old generation Roadster was too aggressive trying to maximize peak torque while shifting, hence the transmission at the time couldn't take the torque.

The shifting is not to deal with more torque from standstill or at low speed, it is to allow the electric motor to drop rpm and stay in power band of the motor while increasing speed.

 

[THX723]

Interesting... I'm just wondering why you would need more torque from standstill, or at low speeds. It's not as if Tesla doesn't need ESP to control the power because it would spin the wheels otherwise.

I don't think Porsche is afraid of it being a failure point. Porsche cars are traditionally complex, but are also very reliable these days.

You’re not entirely off there. It’s not so much needing more torque at low-speed, as it is to minimize torque loss at low-speed when geared for better mid/high-speed.
The 2-speed transaxle appeared to be the weak link and Porsche is having to limit power significantly at launch for reliability.

 

[THX723]

Your posts make me want to check the bottoms of my shoes.

-The Tesla Roadster will NOT have a 2 speed gearbox, we tried that with a much less powerful first gen roadster and it was an unnecessary disaster. Let's revisit in 2021 to see who's right?
-Walk me through the scenario where a mid to high 11 second Taycan (that supposedly does 0-60 in 3.?? seconds), goes 0-125 mph in 9.9 seconds?


Now for some speculation of my own..... Once the Taycan is FINALLY released, you may find yourself perusing through YouTube. You click on a race video, featuring the Taycan vs the P100DL, on the popular CarWow channel.

They both take off at the same time but the Tesla crosses the 1/4 mile line 10 car lengths ahead of the Porsche. How do I know? Because I watched Porsche, obsessively benchmark the Taycan, against the P85D ( not the P90D and not the P100D). They rented, borrowed or bought virtually every available P85D in Germany. Ten car lengths is exactly how the race goes between my P85D and my P100DL.

Yes, obviously that was my conjecture regarding Roadster 2.0 or shall we say "my hope", so long as power handling and reliability can be sorted out. Of course there are other ways Tesla could go without employing an actual gearbox (e.g. differential gearing front vs. rear), but not without other compromises. Maybe that is why Tesla is now admitting 0-60 in 1.9s is no longer possible without SpaceX Package thrusters? I guess we shall see!

Sorry I was a little trigger happy with that post and didn't get to clarify the 9.9x 0-125 is expected from the Taycan 'Performance' model (uncertain if that'll be the 4S or the Turbo; Base model is only RWD). Taycan's 0-60 time appeared to be severely handicapped due to the limited torque handling capability of the 2-speed transaxle. That is why 0-60 and 0-125 time don't seem to correlate in traditional sense.

 

[IchDochNicht]

I just test drove a Raven Performance, which does 2.4 seconds from 0-60. This is already fast to a level where it makes you dizzy. It's as if your brain, eyes, blood all moves to the back of your head for a moment. Crazy!

So I'm not sure that a 1.9 second time is something I'd be excited about. Maybe try it once and hope to survive, then tell my friends how "cool" it is...

The regular Raven does 0-60 in 3.7 seconds. That may be a hint slower than a Taycan, but is plenty fast. And you get 25 miles more range!

 

[HumanGenome]

Let's not blow our loads or blow a fuse without seeing real spec and reviews from the Taycan.

Porsche does not mess around with quality.. lot of folks might be eating their words

 

[svp6]

I am waiting for the range announcement, I am afraid it will be another over 300 miles on European cycle - meaning about 250 EPA; that is too low for me. The use interface should be close to the current Panamera, and probably will abandon most knobs. Quality should be top. Performance probably similar to model 3P. So I am thinking more and more that my deposit will actually go to the refreshed model S provided there is such thing next year.

 

[RDoc]

I still think that the Tesla Supercharging network is a Taycan (and every other BEV) killer. There are nowhere near as many CCS chargers as Superchargers with much less geographic coverage and many of them are low power, making them mainly suitable as 3rd cars.

 

[meomyo]

I still think that the Tesla Supercharging network is a Taycan (and every other BEV) killer. There are nowhere near as many CCS chargers as Superchargers with much less geographic coverage and many of them are low power, making them mainly suitable as 3rd cars.

I agree with this. The tesla SC network will kill the porsche sales for people who want to travel.For local people who will charge at home its likely no big deal but will likely be more expensive then the model s. It will be more a status symbol like the 911 is. I have been seeing so many 911 and corvettes with old guys driving lately i think thats the car a retired guy wants to get so the porsche ev will likley be a hit with that crowd.

 

[meomyo]

I agree with this. The tesla SC network will kill the porsche sales for people who want to travel.For local people who will charge at home its likely no big deal but will likely be more expensive then the model s. It will be more a status symbol like the 911 is. I have been seeing so many 911 and corvettes with old guys driving lately i think thats the car a retired guy wants to get so the porsche ev will likley be a hit with that crowd.

If i was porsche i would have asked to buy/rent teslas proprietary charger hookup and just make the cars accessible to the sc network,but then again if this happened imagine the congestion at sc-ers.

 

[Barry]

If i was porsche i would have asked to buy/rent teslas proprietary charger hookup and just make the cars accessible to the sc network,but then again if this happened imagine the congestion at sc-ers.

Porsche said they are making only 20K Taycans per year, so I don't think it would have much impact.

 

[meomyo]

Porsche said they are making only 20K Taycans per year, so I don't think it would have much impact.

oh..Then its not a serious car for them but a novelty thing to make owners feel unique? Not my thing but I am sure plenty will jump on board. Kind of like that bmw semi ev that looks like a clown car with silly colors and the doors that open like a Lamborghini? Here in denver i have seen 1 of those. Just like i have seen maybe 4 audi r8 cars.

 

[Barry]

oh..Then its not a serious car for them but a novelty thing to make owners feel unique? Not my thing but I am sure plenty will jump on board. Kind of like that bmw semi ev that looks like a clown car with silly colors and the doors that open like a Lamborghini? Here in denver i have seen 1 of those. Just like i have seen maybe 4 audi r8 cars.

The only BMW i9 I've ever seen was last summer at the top of Dalsnibba Road in Geiranger, Norway.

I'd certainly consider a Taycan, or any other decent range EV, when it's time to replace my MS. What I'd be hard-pressed to do is buy another Tesla, given the deterioration in customer service over the last year or two.

 

[Wratran]

I agreed on the the horrible customer service and repair center....takes over 2 weeks to get car service...parts are not available.

You can never talk to a real person

 

[Uncle Paul]

Issue with the Taycan is that while Porsche has been active in crowing about it's initial performance testing nobody knows anything first hand about the reality of driving one of their first EVs.

At this time we pretty much know nothing about it, other than hoping it will have a big helping of the Porsche pudding.

It may ride rough, be noisy, be a current hog. The two speed transmission may not work out at expected. Nobody know about self driving prowess, stereo quality, braking with regenerative assist. Nobody knows how soon the local dealerships will be stocked with spare parts, or how soon they can get their mechanics up to speed on the new technology.

So many details make up a new car, and first year failures are a reality with new cars from Porsche as with other manufacturers.

Same thing is going on now with the new mid-engine Corvette. The specs say it will be better in every way than the outgoing front engined cars, but the details will come slowly our as owners post their experiences on the many forums.

Believe the Porsche will be good, but nobody yet knows where it's weak points will be. When the first enthusiasts begin taking them out for track days, the reports of weak areas will be coming in. These cars are not designed as race cars, but an enthusiasts toys that also must server as their daily drivers. Predict people will upgrading their brakes and brake fluids, performance pads will come to market, larger cooling fans will be needed etc.

From what I understand about Tesla service is that they are steadily improving quality, however with volume increasing so rapidly, there are going to simply have more complaining customers, because they are making tons more customers. People tend to complain loudly to vent their frustrations from having issues with their cars. Perhaps service is really not getting so bad, just that there are an increasing number of customers to offend.

 

[bandido]

The performance and driveability/range will all be interesting, but I am far more interested in the interior/features. My last ICE was a BMW M5. 6 years ago, that car had amazing LED headlights, seamless HUD, surround view cameras, ridiculous seats and adjustability. Text message alerts on screen and read to me. I thought it was spartan compared to their higher end cars.
My biggest complaint after 2 Model S P-cars is the very average interior and challenging service. I know this a personal choice/opinion, but a premium vehicle should have a premium interior, great service, State of the art headlights, HUD, great sound system(the Model 3 sounds better), real phone interface, quality seating surfaces, etc... I was hoping for the "September Refresh", but not I am not sure what to get as my lease nears its end.
I NEED my Tesla acceleration, lol...

 

[PungoteagDave]

I agree with this. The tesla SC network will kill the porsche sales for people who want to travel.For local people who will charge at home its likely no big deal but will likely be more expensive then the model s. It will be more a status symbol like the 911 is. I have been seeing so many 911 and corvettes with old guys driving lately i think thats the car a retired guy wants to get so the porsche ev will likley be a hit with that crowd.

Um no, have you heard about the VW settlement? Their charging network will be bigger within a year and will be faster than 95% of Superchargers. Electrify America is the real deal, and unlike Tesla, will not be proprietary. Hundreds under construction as we write this, thousands in planning. $5billion commitment, far more than Tesla can hope to deploy. Home | Electrify America . from the site: "over 2,800 level 2 (7.2kW AC) chargers at 650 community-based sites, and 2,000 DC fast chargers at 300 highway sites across the country. The charging network roll-out is being done in four 30-month cycles. By the end of 2019, Electrify America is scheduled to have installations completed in 42 states and 17 large metropolitan areas."

 

[wooter]

As far as I can find, they're aiming at 300 highway sites for DC fast charging, which is less than the current Tesla Supercharger network in the US.

I mean, yes we need more chargers and charging networks, but Elecrtrify America isn't aiming to surpass Tesla's network in the next 12 months. Most DC charging sites only count 4 chargers.

I'm pretty sure that it will get better, but I don't expect any parity to the current Tesla network of DC charging locations within 4 years. I find it really frustrating that the technology exists, but except for Tesla no automaker is producing meaningful numbers of affordable EV's with realistic ranges. The Taycan will never be affordable, and the versions that will be available for the next year won't be even competing on price with Tesla's Model S.

 

[PungoteagDave]

As far as I can find, they're aiming at 300 highway sites for DC fast charging, which is less than the current Tesla Supercharger network in the US.

I mean, yes we need more chargers and charging networks, but Elecrtrify America isn't aiming to surpass Tesla's network in the next 12 months. Most DC charging sites only count 4 chargers.

I'm pretty sure that it will get better, but I don't expect any parity to the current Tesla network of DC charging locations within 4 years. I find it really frustrating that the technology exists, but except for Tesla no automaker is producing meaningful numbers of affordable EV's with realistic ranges. The Taycan will never be affordable, and the versions that will be available for the next year won't be even competing on price with Tesla's Model S.

Incorrect. Many Superchargers are not on highway locations. The dollars committed by Electrify America say it all. Way more than Tesla can come close to doing. The good news is that Teslas will also be able to charge at them faster than at most Superchargers. In just the last three months they have opened fast chargers at 120 Walmart locations. It is the real deal:

"We had no chargers at all in 2018; to date in 2019 we have 158 sites operational. The way we're interpreting the consent decree is doing something unique in the US. We've got one chance to finally try to have an increase in EV adoption," explained Giovanni Palazzo, president and CEO of Electrify America.

(Out of the first 484 sites, the design and engineering is complete for all but two. About 30 sites are still submitting permits; 370 sites have all permits and are in construction; 267 have had construction completed, and 158 are already in use.)

By the end of the year, that will mean sites in 42 states and 17 large metropolitan areas. In addition to the 2,000 DC fast chargers—a mix of both CCS Combo and ChaDeMo at all sites—Electrify America is also putting in more than 2,800 level 2 (7.2kW AC) charging stations. On highway corridors, the stations will be spaced at an average of 70 miles (113km), with 120 miles (193km) between them at maximum. Each site has a minimum of four charging stations, with the largest having 10 chargers."