Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

S85 For Sale White/Tan/Gloss Wood/No Pano 3500 miles ACCIDENT DAMAGE

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
#61
Hi Bill,

can an I have your email address? I gave you mine, plus my phone number. I have your phone number, but calling is more disruptive for you than an email.

Hart

lolachampcar said:
You are correct but I would prefer to sell the car to people I know from the TMC community. The sleaze factor on EBay can be high, especially when selling cars. Often you will have winning bids that do not perform. Couple this with the fact that members here are the most knowledgeable about the car and I think it is reasonable to believe that TMC will provide an equal or better yield from the sale.

In addition, I gave SF plenty of notice of my intent to sell as is. If they object to any part, they were free to take responsibility for the effort. It is not my choice to spend my time on this and I would have been perfectly happy to turn the whole project over to them. They did not respond thus they waive their right to object.
Click to expand...
 
#62
Bill and GlennAlan: Probably more to GlennAlan: This may be totally naïve of me: It is not possible to purchase two white doors and a quarter panel for less than 20K from TM? They know Bill and 'lolahcampcar' is probably one of the most respected members of this and TMs own forum. Surely these three parts of a 90K car (whose battery represents 40K of the car) can't be worth 20+K?




As some others have mentioned: This car is a 'steal' at 40-45K. If I did not already have an S and was waiting for an X this would be a 'no brainer'

On a personal note: Glad you wife is OK Bill.
 
Last edited:
#63
The doors are $950 and $975 from Tesla (complete shells) while the quarter panel is $900. It is still unclear if a non-certified Tesla body shop can buy the quarter panel.

I did a good bit of research on the costs of repair which led me to the conclusion that an as is sale is the most cost effective way to address the problem. You can do a search on TMC and find many a QP replacement in the $17K to $22.5K area depending upon other adjacent damage that was fixed. The panels are welded and bonded in place which makes them very expensive to R&R. I believe one TMC member posed that a RR quarter panel replacement with wheel, door and bumper touch up took more than 130 hours of labor at $110/hr and seven weeks to complete. It is also interesting to note that the insurance company's original assessment of that repair was $7700 which, of course, was WAY off.

In my view, there are two extremes for this car. The first is the full and correct Tesla certified repair using a certified repair shop. The second is to replace the two door shells and body work the rear quarter panel. The second allows an owner to have the least possible $ amount in the car and, assuming they keep the car for 50 to 75K miles, the penalty for a non-certified repair when they go to sell a highly depreciated MS will be peanuts in comparison to the money they saved getting into the car (and they will not have had that extra money tied up for three or four years). Of course, there is always the third option where someone does not even bother to repair the damage. I guess that is the least expensive from a $/mile for the buyer.

Hart,
bill
at
lolachampcar
with the obligatory dot
com
 
#64
The average insurance adjuster (with no knowledge of how a Tesla is made of aluminum) is probably going to initially write an estimate for XX hours to repair both doors and the quarter panel, based on the size and severity of the damage. As in the body shop pulls and hammers out the dents and uses body filler to smooth out the remaining minor imperfections. A good shop can do an amazing job (with conventional steel body panels), where the amount of filler is very tiny. Of course, this would be more of a problem with aluminum body panels, so I am betting the adjuster can be convinced to replace all three panels.

Back in the 1990's, body shops and insurance companies used the Mitchell guide for book times for how many hours to allow for R&I, R&R, paint times, parts prices, etc. I have no idea if Mitchell covers a Tesla Model S yet, but they probably do by now.

For the DIYer out there, another possible source for parts would be salvage yards. If you can find a Model S that took a good front-end or driver's side hit and was totaled, you might be able to buy some parts from it.

I agree with Bill that replacing the door shells and repairing the quarter panel damage probably makes the most sense for a buyer who plans to keep the vehicle.
 
#66
Bill,

When a deer hit the side of my car, I took it to the authorized Tesla shop in Annapolis, MD for repair. This was in April, 2013. Their labor rate was $28/hr, not $110.00, and Gieco objected to that rate, arguing it was above the authorized rate they allow. Check what the labor rates are in your area. If you are basing your arguments with SF on a $110/hr labor rate and they submit that the rate is much less, that may impact your strategy.

Watching for the outcome with great interest.
 
#68
sweg,
I'm basing my comments on a recent repair where SF paid for a RR quarter panel replacement. The labor rate for that shop was $110. I know the dealers locally are getting $150/hr for mechanical work. I believe Tesla's rate is near that as well.

I'm not saying it is right, but it seems the insurance companies are paying that much.
 
#69
swegman said:
Bill,

When a deer hit the side of my car, I took it to the authorized Tesla shop in Annapolis, MD for repair. This was in April, 2013. Their labor rate was $28/hr, not $110.00, and Gieco objected to that rate, arguing it was above the authorized rate they allow. Check what the labor rates are in your area. If you are basing your arguments with SF on a $110/hr labor rate and they submit that the rate is much less, that may impact your strategy.

Watching for the outcome with great interest.
Click to expand...

Did you transpose the numbers in the $28/hr labor rate? I don't know anyone who works for that rate.
 
#70
No I did not transpose the numbers; it was $28/hr for body work from the Tesla approved shop in Annapolis MD. And Gieco refused to pay that rate, saying it was higher than what they pay repair shops in the Washington, DC area.
 
#71
swegman said:
No I did not transpose the numbers; it was $28/hr for body work from the Tesla approved shop in Annapolis MD. And Gieco refused to pay that rate, saying it was higher than what they pay repair shops in the Washington, DC area.
Click to expand...


Come on $28? I am used to body shop labor being a little less than typical mechanic labor. A quick look puts NC average at $90 or so (not much different than MD). I am used to body work at 10% less so $82 makes a lot of sense.

I would expect $100 for Tesla approved in S. Fl.

Just as aside, but if everyone seems to think that $40-45k is a steal, the car is not likely to sell at $40-45k.
 
#72
swegman said:
No I did not transpose the numbers; it was $28/hr for body work from the Tesla approved shop in Annapolis MD. And Gieco refused to pay that rate, saying it was higher than what they pay repair shops in the Washington, DC area.
Click to expand...

Did the Geico adjusters by any chance have their total previous business experience flipping burgers? Or having their cars serviced by such qualified personnel? Annapolis doesn't sound like extremely low wage territory for expertise. Thanks for the warning though ;-) however not needed for me.
 
#73
David_Cary said:
Come on $28? I am used to body shop labor being a little less than typical mechanic labor. A quick look puts NC average at $90 or so (not much different than MD). I am used to body work at 10% less so $82 makes a lot of sense.

I would expect $100 for Tesla approved in S. Fl.

Just as aside, but if everyone seems to think that $40-45k is a steal, the car is not likely to sell at $40-45k.
Click to expand...
For Lolas sake I hope he gets more. Think about it everyone....A person waiting for a 'E' (40K) car is getting a car 2-3 years before the E is available with an 85KW battery for a very similar price. If you look at the photos the damage is all minor cosmetics.


I hope my car never gets damages. If it does I am heading to Annapolis ($28/hour at a body shop)...Sign me up.
 
#74
I'm not sure where it will sell. The reason for the original thread was to make sure there was enough interest such that I could prove to the insurance company that an as is sale is more cost effective then repair and trade. Put differently, the as is price plus an estimate for a Tesla certified repair had to approach the price of depreciated new.

If the car fetches $50K as is, it would be insane for an insurance company to expose itself to a potential $25K repair and $5-$7K in rental car (Florida requires a like replacement for Loss of Use) before even having a discussion about diminished value. Let's say diminished value is on the low side at 10% which is (0.1 * (89,750 - $3000 for three months of ownership and $3500 for miles driven using Tesla's demo/loaner model)) or $8325. That number is conservative as (1) no MS owner would agree to just 10% and (2) the DM should be applied to the after tax number as that is the true cost of the vehicle to the owner. Add the as is value to the repair and diminished value (low ball) number and you get just over $88K!!! As I said, going that way would be insane.


Nothing in the above should be construed as a comment on the current bidding.
 
Last edited:
#76
Gieco refused to pay the $28/hr repair rate for the Tesla authorized shop, saying I could have taken the shop to a Gieco approved repair shop, which gets paid (if I remember correctly $24/hr for body work). Gieco took the position that replacing body panels (there was no structural damage) could be done by any body shop, and not just an approved Tesla shop. I argued the rate was more than reasonable for the type of vehicle. I refused to accept no as an answer and kept going to higher ups in the company. I spoke to 6 higher ups in the company and they all said no. Finally, I spoke to the VP of the DC region, told him I would post my experience with Gieco on the Tesla Motors forum and TMC forum, and he agreed to reimburse me for the additional labor rate. That is, they would not pay the body shop the higher rate, as (according to the VP) if Gieco did that for me, they would have to do it for everyone. However, if I paid the Tesla body shop the disallowed amount, and sent them proof that I paid it, Gieco would reimburse me, as a curtesy, which they did.

At least in the DC area, Gieco uses body shops that have agreed to certain reimbursement rates, and if you do to a non-Gieco shop, you are on the hook for whatever amount the labor reate of that shop exceeds the Gieco "rate".
 
#77
swegman said:
Gieco refused to pay the $28/hr repair rate for the Tesla authorized shop, saying I could have taken the shop to a Gieco approved repair shop, which gets paid (if I remember correctly $24/hr for body work). Gieco took the position that replacing body panels (there was no structural damage) could be done by any body shop, and not just an approved Tesla shop. I argued the rate was more than reasonable for the type of vehicle. I refused to accept no as an answer and kept going to higher ups in the company. I spoke to 6 higher ups in the company and they all said no. Finally, I spoke to the VP of the DC region, told him I would post my experience with Gieco on the Tesla Motors forum and TMC forum, and he agreed to reimburse me for the additional labor rate. That is, they would not pay the body shop the higher rate, as (according to the VP) if Gieco did that for me, they would have to do it for everyone. However, if I paid the Tesla body shop the disallowed amount, and sent them proof that I paid it, Gieco would reimburse me, as a curtesy, which they did.

At least in the DC area, Gieco uses body shops that have agreed to certain reimbursement rates, and if you do to a non-Gieco shop, you are on the hook for whatever amount the labor reate of that shop exceeds the Gieco "rate".
Click to expand...

Thanks, swegman. That implies a distinctive YES to me. I could be wrong, but I am sure glad not to be one of their customers. Those who are, prepare to get your car grilled-in-a-bun. Ketchup? Big fry-up? (However that's spelled)
 
#78
Reposting to make sure the request for bids can be found easily by newcomers to the thread.

I would like to start by thanking everyone that took time to give me feedback on selling my wife’s S85. That information, combined with some valuable cost data on a similar repair, has provided a clear and compelling case for selling the car as is.

The car is now available for sale and delivery. I would like to solicit bids by email for the next four days at the close of which I will sit down with my wife and examine all of them in an attempt to pick the best buyer. This will be Tuesday afternoon. I prefer email over PM as I seem unable to manage the volume in my PM account. As mentioned earlier, it is my intention to to be fair throughout this process and disadvantage no one. I will make the car available for inspection throughout this process.

Information from seller:
The car has clear title without lien holder, is in our possession and is in my wife’s name.
The car can be delivered to the buyer as early as two days after the close of bidding and selection of a winning bid.
A successful bid should include a non-refundable deposit that (1) allows the buyer to rely on the purchase of the car and (2) allow the seller to rely on the sale so that the car can be removed from the market. It has been my past experience that these types of deposit are typically made within a few days of the successful bid and are routinely in the 10% range.
I would prefer all payments be made via wire transfer to Tesla referencing the order number for my wife’s replacement car.
Although not a mandatory requirement, it would be very helpful if the successful bidder would allow for my wife to remain in the car until the replacement arrives. If the buyer is kind enough to allow this, I would anticipate protections for the buyer such that the car remains in my wife’s name, on our insurance policy and there is a clear zero cost exit for the buyer should anything happen to the car during this time (like another accident ). Again, this is desirable for obvious reasons but is by no means a requirement of a successful bid.

My primary goals are to meet the buyer’s needs for value while fetching the best possible price for the car as is. I am open to any approach that helps to achieve both goals.

Thank You,
Bill Hart

bill
at
lolachampcar
with the obligatory dot com
 
#79
Leesmog, not sure what you mean by YES. Other than the labor reimbursement rate, Gieco was easy to deal with. The initial estimate for the damage was $800. When the Tesla approved body shop started work, they determined that a clip on the headlight and a clip on the fender cover had broken. Normally, they would repair the clips. Since the car was only 3 weeks old at the time, they recommended replacing these parts, as repairing the clips would likely result in some minor non-alignment issues. This increased the repair costs to over $5,200.00. Gieco approved these items without any question, which surprised me. The only issue they had was the higher body shop labor rates, for using a non-Gieco approved body shop. Also, when my renewal came up (6 months coverage), my premium actually decreased, as the repair was covered under the comprehensive section of my plan.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

lolachampcar
Help with Model S rear accident damage repair costs
Replies
2
Views
405
Model S
lolachampcar
lolachampcar
O
Tesla Model 3 2021 Accident
Replies
16
Views
629
Model 3
texas_star_TM3
T
lolachampcar
Data point on Tesla's quality management approach.
Replies
0
Views
381
Tesla, Inc.
lolachampcar
lolachampcar
D
Tesla Service Center damaged Model S Plaid
Replies
25
Views
2K
Model S
MOE J
M
B
Tesla supercharger bay damaged my Model S and Tesla refused to help
Replies
16
Views
827
Model S
Takumi
T
Top
Back
Blog
New
Forum list
Marketplace
Menu