Safety issue

[deserthootman]

Truck has RCTA. Since the military, I only pull through or back into places. I had to look online just now to make sure the truck had it.

Would I like the additional aid? Sure. You never know. Was I upset about it with Tesla? Nah. I

I still find my truck easier to reverse park, which is counterintuitive. While Teslas cam is wide angle, which is great for cross traffic and reduced blind spots, the dynamic guidelines just don't do it for me. In comparison the truck has fixed lines but with rear radars color coded green, yellow, and red for proximity. The variable audio chiming is nice too. Nitpicks barely worth discussing though. Teslas reverse system is more than adequate for me.

 

[Knightshade]

Why on earth would I back into the average space in a parking lot?

Because it's demonstrably and factually safer to do so (and especially to pull out forward instead of backward)? Thought we already covered this multiple times now?

How am I supposed to load my groceries? I mean, the frunk is pretty darn small. .

Again I have to ask- do you live in some alternate reality where the Model 3 is the largest car in existence?

Because anyplace I've ever parked mine I can easily leave plenty of space behind the car before I get to the white line leaving tons of room to access the trunk even backing in while the front is still inside the space.

Do they not have full-sized cars where you live or something and all the spots are several feet shorter than everywhere else?

At the end of the day most people are not backing in.

That's on them when they hit stuff, or have to rely on extra "driver aids" to hope they don't, by parking in a more dangerous fashion.

It pisses people off in crowded parking lots, and it means I can't load or unload my trunk.

Again the trunk objection is just nonsense...

19 feet deep is the standard DOT recommended depth for standard perpendicular parking.

A model 3 is 15.5 feet long.

You can fit entirely into a spot, backing in, and have 3.5 feet of empty space behind the car to access the trunk.

A typical grocery cart is about 2 feet wide

Are you trying to ride a war elephant back behind there or something?

 

[WilliamG]

Because it's demonstrably and factually safer to do so (and especially to pull out forward instead of backward)? Thought we already covered this multiple times now?




Again I have to ask- do you live in some alternate reality where the Model 3 is the largest car in existence?

Because anyplace I've ever parked mine I can easily leave plenty of space behind the car before I get to the white line leaving tons of room to access the trunk even backing in while the front is still inside the space.

Do they not have full-sized cars where you live or something and all the spots are several feet shorter than everywhere else?





That's on them when they hit stuff, or have to rely on extra "driver aids" to hope they don't, by parking in a more dangerous fashion.




Again the trunk objection is just nonsense...

19 feet deep is the standard DOT recommended depth for standard perpendicular parking.

A model 3 is 15.5 feet long.

You can fit entirely into a spot, backing in, and have 3.5 feet of empty space behind the car to access the trunk.

A typical grocery cart is about 2 feet wide

Are you trying to ride a war elephant back behind there or something?

Where exactly do you live?

 

[lolder]

As i originally said, this is not a safety issue, it is an opinion issue.

 

[Knightshade]

Where exactly do you live?

Earth? The US in particular, where as I mention DOT recommended parking spaces are 19 feet long so your trunk objection doesn't make any sense on a 15.5 foot long car.


More specifically-North Carolina. Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill...a metro area of a couple million people- so not like I'm talking about Wyoming or something.


In case you're still unclear on the fact backing in is the better, safer, way to park-

It’s much safer to back into parking spaces. Why don’t we do it?

Article mentions such diverse sources as:

AAA
Car Talk
Tom Vanderbilt, author of the classic book Traffic

All confirming that we should be backing into spots whenever possible (or obviously just pulling through to end in the same position if that's possible)

 

[WilliamG]

Earth? The US in particular, where as I mention DOT recommended parking spaces are 19 feet long so your trunk objection doesn't make any sense on a 15.5 foot long car.


More specifically-North Carolina. Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill...a metro area of a couple million people- so not like I'm talking about Wyoming or something.


In case you're still unclear on the fact backing in is the better, safer, way to park-

It’s much safer to back into parking spaces. Why don’t we do it?

Article mentions such diverse sources as:

AAA
Car Talk
Tom Vanderbilt, author of the classic book Traffic

All confirming that we should be backing into spots whenever possible (or obviously just pulling through to end in the same position if that's possible)

Thank you for proving my point with that article. Hundreds of people killed. Thousands injured. Every. Year.

Exactly why we need cross-traffic RADAR when backing out of spaces.

Now you can tell me we shouldn’t be backing out of spaces. And I’ll tell you it’s not always feasible with traffic around you. And that most people do NOT. Exactly as that article states.

In a perfect world everyone would be patient and loving. I grew up in London. There’s an expectation that many people will reverse into a space. That simply doesn’t exist in the USA.

Also, DOT may mandate 19.5 feet for parking spaces, but I can promise you my Model 3 sticks out of a LOT of parking spaces in Seattle.

 

[Knightshade]

Thank you for proving my point with that article. Hundreds of people killed. Thousands injured. Every. Year.

Exactly why we need cross-traffic RADAR when backing out of spaces.

Uh, the point of the actual article was that you avoid those issues by just backing into the spot when you park

Why do you keep asking for additional, cost-add, tech solutions to the problem of "People parking incorrectly to begin with"?

Now you can tell me we shouldn’t be backing out of spaces. And I’ll tell you it’s not always feasible with traffic around you. And that most people do NOT. Exactly as that article states.

It states most people in the US don't.

Studies suggest it's much more common elsewhere


Still- you're not responsible for how other people park- but you are responsible for how you park

If you want to be safer- back in.

Also, DOT may mandate 19.5 feet for parking spaces, but I can promise you my Model 3 sticks out of a LOT of parking spaces in Seattle.

weird- I've driven there a number of times (always in rental cars as big or larger than a model 3) and never had that experience.

Got any pics of these spots so short a 15.5 foot car can't fit in them?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

In case you're still unclear on the fact backing in is the better, safer, way to park-

It’s much safer to back into parking spaces. Why don’t we do it?

Also, from the article:

“Incidentally, the photograph shows cars parked closest to campus being more likely to have backed in. This is a consistent day-to-day trend and suggests that early arrivers are go-getters and more willing to do a little work at the outset so as to have a smooth and clear exit”

The author may be partially correct but obviously this is an unverified hypothesis.

My hypothesis is that these people are better able to park backwards because it is less crowded when they arrive (so there is not much challenge to backing in) and there is less traffic to interfere with their backing, making it more socially acceptable. These are at least contributing factors.

Personally, whenever I see another Tesla in a crowded parking lot looking for a spot, I follow them and just take their spot when they drive past it. Just have to be quick! If you drive past it, it’s mine!

 

[Knightshade]

Also, from the article:

“Incidentally, the photograph shows cars parked closest to campus being more likely to have backed in. This is a consistent day-to-day trend and suggests that early arrivers are go-getters and more willing to do a little work at the outset so as to have a smooth and clear exit”

The author may be partially correct but obviously this is an unverified hypothesis.

My hypothesis is that these people are better able to park backwards because it is less crowded when they arrive (so there is not much challenge to backing in) and there is less traffic to interfere with their backing, making it more socially acceptable. These are at least contributing factors.

I'd expect both are contributing factors- though the data on backing in by country suggests the go-getter or "long term outlook" mindset thing is a real factor.

Folks who back in understand it makes it easier, faster (and safer!) to pull out later- folks who don't aren't as good at thinking ahead.

 

[WilliamG]

Uh, the point of the actual article was that you avoid those issues by just backing into the spot when you park

Why do you keep asking for additional, cost-add, tech solutions to the problem of "People parking incorrectly to begin with"?




It states most people in the US don't.

Studies suggest it's much more common elsewhere


Still- you're not responsible for how other people park- but you are responsible for how you park

If you want to be safer- back in.





weird- I've driven there a number of times (always in rental cars as big or larger than a model 3) and never had that experience.

Got any pics of these spots so short a 15.5 foot car can't fit in them?

To your last question, yes. I’ll take a picture of one next time I’m in a parking lot.

It’s not a case of parking incorrectly. If the government wants to make it illegal to park front first into a space, then we’ll talk. Until then...

And I’ll still say at Costco etc this would never ever work. There are lots of walled areas in front of cars parked face first. If you reversed in (coupled with spaces that are not 19.5 feet deep, it would not be possible to load the car. And I don’t want people rolling their shopping carts down the side of my car to load their trunk. If faced - at Costco - between parking next to someone ass-end first or front-end first, which car are you parking next to? Right. Exactly.

Same thing at airports. You want to squeeze in between cars with massive luggage? No thanks.

We can go back and forth all day. Not everyone parks back-end first. It’s not always even feasible to do so. In Seattle, LA etc if you drove past a space to reverse into it - chances are you’d lose the space to the guy behind you.

We can talk about what all of us should be doing until we’re blue in the face. Bottom line is one can’t always reverse into a space, and cross-traffic alerts FACTUALLY makes reversing out of a space a safer procedure.

 

[cucubits]

To your last question, yes. I’ll take a picture of one next time I’m in a parking lot.

It’s not a case of parking incorrectly. If the government wants to make it illegal to park front first into a space, then we’ll talk. Until then...

And I’ll still say at Costco etc this would never ever work. There are lots of walled areas in front of cars parked face first. If you reversed in (coupled with spaces that are not 19.5 feet deep, it would not be possible to load the car. And I don’t want people rolling their shopping carts down the side of my car to load their trunk. If faced - at Costco - between parking next to someone ass-end first or front-end first, which car are you parking next to? Right. Exactly.

Same thing at airports. You want to squeeze in between cars with massive luggage? No thanks.

We can go back and forth all day. Not everyone parks back-end first. It’s not always even feasible to do so. In Seattle, LA etc if you drove past a space to reverse into it - chances are you’d lose the space to the guy behind you.

We can talk about what all of us should be doing until we’re blue in the face. Bottom line is one can’t always reverse into a space, and cross-traffic alerts FACTUALLY makes reversing out of a space a safer procedure.

Not just Costco and not just on the West coast. I see the same in TX too.

This is just a "let's agree to disagree" situation. No Tesla fanboy will ever admit they made a mistake or a design oversight.

 

[Knightshade]

To your last question, yes. I’ll take a picture of one next time I’m in a parking lot.

It’s not a case of parking incorrectly. If the government wants to make it illegal to park front first into a space, then we’ll talk. Until then...

Until then it's still the more dangerous way to park.


Your "Until it's illegal" argument is nonsensical- just to cite one example why-

Was it ok to text while driving before states made that illegal and only the new law made it dangerous? Of course not.

And I’ll still say at Costco etc this would never ever work.

We hit Costco at 2-3 times a month (depending how often we need to go).

And not just in the Tesla- our other car is a larger SUV.

It's never a problem.

There are lots of walled areas in front of cars parked face first. If you reversed in (coupled with spaces that are not 19.5 feet deep, it would not be possible to load the car.

I suppose if you had a weird spot that was exactly 15.5 feet with a solid wall behind it, yes that would be an issue.

I can't recall ever seeing such a spot though.

And I don’t want people rolling their shopping carts down the side of my car to load their trunk. If faced - at Costco - between parking next to someone ass-end first or front-end first, which car are you parking next to? Right. Exactly.

You don't have time to park corretly but you have time to check how everyone ELSE parked before picking where you're gonna part?

"right" indeed.


FWIW though if I have choices but have to park next to another car I'll pick the spot where the drivers door of the other car is facing away from me to minimize odds of an open door hitting my car.

Which means if he's backed in I want to park on his passenger side... and if he's pulled in forward I want to park on... his passengers side. I don't really care which way he's facing apart from that.

Same thing at airports. You want to squeeze in between cars with massive luggage? No thanks.

massive luggage?

Ah, so you park wrong and travel wrong!

I've been to a lot of different states and countries, often for weeks at a time, and never check a bag (other than if I'm coming back with liquids and have no choice- even then it's a carry-on size roller bag being checked).

I wouldn't be leaving my Tesla at the airport anyway though so this isn't super relevant to me.

We can go back and forth all day.

Apparently so, even though you said you were "done" like 5 posts ago

This is just a "let's agree to disagree" situation. No Tesla fanboy will ever admit they made a mistake or a design oversight.

Parking the safer way has nothing to do with Teslas. so this doesn't make much sense.

I was backing into spots long before I ever owned a Tesla- and never felt need for RCTA on those cars either since I'd never have needed the feature simply by parking correctly.


Again though it's not an "oversight"- like they just "forgot" or something...

The car is designed and intended to pull into spots backward.

You can tell simply by telling the car to park itself. It pulls in backward.

 

[SDKoala]

- shopping: it's way more convenient to have quicker access to the trunk, especially if the spots are tight and there's another row parked in front. (ok, this is not a safety related but it is a factor) Also, may be even less relevant with EVs having useful frunks.

This reason can't be overlooked. The overwhelming majority of cars have storage in the rear, be it trunk, hatch, lift gate, flat bed, whatever. Parking lots in shopping centers are designed around that. The frunk isn't always a suitable storage space due to size There's no convenient or practical way to load a car, truck minivan, SUV, whatever after backing in to a parking space.

 

[Knightshade]

This reason can't be overlooked. The overwhelming majority of cars have storage in the rear, be it trunk, hatch, lift gate, flat bed, whatever. Parking lots in shopping centers are designed around that. The frunk isn't always a suitable storage space due to size There's no convenient or practical way to load a car, truck minivan, SUV, whatever after backing in to a parking space.

Granted, we generally order stuff online since it's cheaper, easier, and shows up at my door- especially large items-so if you're buying I dunno a full-size sofa or something sure... but for "normal" shopping like groceries and stuff this is a complete non-issue when backing in.

As pointed out earlier the typical parking spot is 3-4 feet longer than the car is. Just don't back in as far and there's tons of room to load it, including rolling your shopping cart back there to do so if you bought a ton of stuff.

 

[Knightshade]

BTW I'd like to mention how hilarious it is WilliamG just spent 3 pages of the thread telling us how awful and impossible backing into a spot to park was and it totally doesn't work for him...he can't load his car-the spots are too small- nobody will wait for you to actually back in- etc...

while over in another thread he was telling folks how he uses autopark (which backs into spots, and does it VERY SLOWLY too) on a near daily basis-

Works fine for me. I use it about every day.

 

[WilliamG]

BTW I'd like to mention how hilarious it is WilliamG just spent 3 pages of the thread telling us how awful and impossible backing into a spot to park was and it totally doesn't work for him...he can't load his car-the spots are too small- nobody will wait for you to actually back in- etc...

while over in another thread he was telling folks how he uses autopark (which backs into spots, and does it VERY SLOWLY too) on a near daily basis-

I do use auto parallel park every day. I'm flattered that you follow my posts, but I'm not entirely sure why you're inventing things I said in this thread. But please, do carry on.

 

[Knightshade]

I do use auto parallel park every day. I'm flattered that you follow my posts, but I'm not entirely sure why you're inventing things I said in this thread.

In Seattle, LA etc if you drove past a space to reverse into it - chances are you’d lose the space to the guy behind you.

So you autopark forward into spots do you?

(if you actually parallel park almost daily it'd be extra weird you spent 3 pages discussing the trials of perpendicular parking in here though...)

 

[WilliamG]

So you autopark forward into spots do you?

(if you actually parallel park almost daily it'd be extra weird you spent 3 pages discussing the trials of perpendicular parking in here though...)

Let me clarify, since this appears hard to grasp:

1.) When I park on the street as I do often daily for my job or for picking up food at my local bakeries or restaurants, I often parallel park because street parking is all there usually is. I often use auto park because it works for me.

2.) When I go to grocery stores or Costco, I pretty much always perpendicularly park due to it being a parking lot. Reversing out is not as safe as it was in my 2016 Golf R due to lack of rear cross-traffic alert. I don’t reverse in because:

a.) there’s usually not enough room to fit a shopping cart down the side of my car without some trepidation of hitting mine or the next car over. When the parking lots are sloped, that’s even more true. If I drive straight in it’s much easier to have personal space and room for the shopping cart.

b.) If the spaces are stacked, there’s usually a car right behind me so I can’t put the cart right behind the trunk if I reverse in because to leave that much space requires my car to jut out of the space entirely.

c.) In busy parking ramps in e.g. downtown Seattle where the spaces are angled, it’s not possible to hold people up to do any reverse parking. You drive straight in and need to reverse out.

d.) You have a real bee in your bonnet about this. Why more safety features are such a terrible thing to you is beyond me.

 

[WilliamG]

To update, I’m at Target now in Seattle. Oh look at this lovely 19.5’ DOT-mandated space. Nope, it’s barely 15’. If I reversed into this space I’d never be able to load anything.

 

[cucubits]

To update, I’m at Target now in Seattle. Oh look at this lovely 19.5’ DOT-mandated space. Nope, it’s barely 15’. If I reversed into this space I’d never be able to load anything.

I'd say there's no point to keep trying to explain this. Looks like talking to a brick wall to be honest. No way we're going to change his opinion or make him understand why he's wrong, no matter how many examples, pictures we post.

Against my own advice, I'll explain again my main reason for not backing into parking spots:

If you're between two above average size cars and you're backed in, when you leave the spot, you have to pull forward completely blind almost half the car length until your face passes the cars parked left and right. Only then you will see if other cars/bikes/pedestrians run around with your car already half way out. This should be so obvious, I cannot understand how some of you keep saying that backing into parking spots is safer. This scenario assumes there's no wide angle camera in the nose of your car and there is a backup camera (of course almost all cars are like this).

I really have to learn to stop feeding the trolls...