Safety Score

[Saabstory88]

I guess you missed my edits. But I don't think they are just looking at the y accelerometer.

Well that's good to know. I believe the IMU can determine pitch so that should be easy to remove angle from the equation and only report the difference.

 

[srs5694]

We need that hundred so we can get the FSD Beta.

No, we don't. We need a score of 100 to get the FSD beta first (excluding those who already have it as part of the Early Access program). Although the timing is unclear, Tesla/Musk has said that the beta program (emphasizing those two words; see below) will be expanded starting with the highest-scoring drivers and moving down from there. Presumably there'll be some cutoff point, below which you'll have to wait for the general availability release, but that cutoff point is unlikely to be 100.

Remember, this scoring is to get into a beta-test program. The software is not complete; it's not what we've paid $3k to $10k (or $199/month) to get. It's beta-quality software that can kill people! Yes, it's cool new technology, but PLEASE keep in mind that it's also DANGEROUS new technology. Don't lose sight of that fact while competing to be the first in the door. I, too, signed up and have tried to keep a good driving score; but I'm re-thinking that as time has gone on. Some strategies for gaming the score are downright dangerous, and for what? Getting the earliest wide beta version a week before I otherwise might? It's just not worth it, IMHO.

 

[JackSparrowV]

Had 2 trips before I could see my score, first trip was a drive to the airport about 18 miles mostly on AP, second trip was a drive back from the airport two days later, more manual driving. Got 79 on the first 100 on the second. Been doing more manual driving and have had 100 ever since. My overall currently sits at 94, don't know how many 100 over how many miles I'll have to do to get it closer to 100 but doesn't seem likely within the 2 weeks time period as I only drive about 30miles each day.

 

[jebinc]

Mine's a 2018 LR RWD, HW3 upgraded in Feb 2020. Also 2021.32.22, was batched together with the big dump that came at 3:40am Saturday morning.

My biggest, most loud complaint about Autopilot right now is its incredibly lethargic response to external stimuli. It's so laggy, I am genuinely concerned that it'll ram into stopped cars some day - and it's a fairly big mental load to balance everything. But my experience has 100% been that "Autopilot masks everything" - the more I use AP, the more a 100% score I'll get. I'm still at 99 average. Desperately hoping to finally get FSD Beta after numerous attempts over the months. It didn't take much change to driving to eliminate other factors, but "following" is ridiculous; I wonder if something is actually affecting my car that makes it so glacially laggy to respond.

Second most annoying gripe is its tendency to brake for any kind of flashing yellow light on a sign, or accidentally notice a train-traffic signal as my own signal - today I even had it brake out of nowhere while a yellow light flashed somewhere up on screen! Traffic light detection is madness, and I suspect they stopped developing it after FSD Beta started development on an all new stack. But... having light detection enabled masks any kind of hard-braking to catch a light, so I keep it enabled for peace of mind.

I never really hear much from other people about this maddeningly laggy response to anything acceleration- or braking-related on AP. It used to be, prior to the "no-radar push", that AP would be pretty well glued to the car in front. I could even tell if a car I'm following was a stick-shift, feeling the clutch lag their acceleration and thus mine as well. Now, not so much. AP accelerates like it's asleep, 2mph per second acceleration. And when I roll down the speed limit as I see stopped cars ahead, it's like "yeah that's nice" and decelerates at 2mph/sec until it finally notices them, and grinds on the brakes to stop in time. I'm legit weirded out that folks aren't yelling about this.

It is very laggy - even you you click the wheel to disengage it, it still takes a second or two to disengage.

 

[jebinc]

I definitely do not get dinged while using AP. Also, can anyone confirm they dropped the radar on radar cars yet? Is there a way to tell, isn’t the top speed on AP limited to 90mph on vision cars?

It's well documented. I think it was May when Radars left the M3 and MY. The new refreshed MS (Plaid and LR) is still a question mark, which is what I'm running the beta button firmware on (My Plaid).

 

[jebinc]

Has anyone opted out after opt-in to see if the safety score doesn't track a trip? Or are we all in too deep and can't risk not getting FSD beta by getting out of the queue

Based on a recent Elon tween, the beta firmware will not be released to beta button users until 10/8, not 10/1. So grannies, keep driving like old nannies for "two weeks" and keep those safety scores up! Apparently, Tesla needs a week to incorporate changes from the v10.1 EAP feedback, before releasing v10.2 to those lucky enough to have a perfect 100 score on 10/8.

 

[jebinc]

No, we don't. We need a score of 100 to get the FSD beta first (excluding those who already have it as part of the Early Access program). Although the timing is unclear, Tesla/Musk has said that the beta program (emphasizing those two words; see below) will be expanded starting with the highest-scoring drivers and moving down from there. Presumably there'll be some cutoff point, below which you'll have to wait for the general availability release, but that cutoff point is unlikely to be 100.

Remember, this scoring is to get into a beta-test program. The software is not complete; it's not what we've paid $3k to $10k (or $199/month) to get. It's beta-quality software that can kill people! Yes, it's cool new technology, but PLEASE keep in mind that it's also DANGEROUS new technology. Don't lose sight of that fact while competing to be the first in the door. I, too, signed up and have tried to keep a good driving score; but I'm re-thinking that as time has gone on. Some strategies for gaming the score are downright dangerous, and for what? Getting the earliest wide beta version a week before I otherwise might? It's just not worth it, IMHO.

It was reported yesterday that Elon thinks the cutoff will be around 80%, but it could take forever to those in the 80's to see the actual download. Only a 1000 downloads per day, starting with those who have scored 100 and have a reasonable amount of miles accumulated. With 100's of thousands of beta button requests, many could be driving like nannies (or opting out) for many months.

 

[jebinc]

Had 2 trips before I could see my score, first trip was a drive to the airport about 18 miles mostly on AP, second trip was a drive back from the airport two days later, more manual driving. Got 79 on the first 100 on the second. Been doing more manual driving and have had 100 ever since. My overall currently sits at 94, don't know how many 100 over how many miles I'll have to do to get it closer to 100 but doesn't seem likely within the 2 weeks time period as I only drive about 30miles each day.

Just do the math.... Do a weighted daily average (each day's miles times score for that day divided by 100). Add all of the days weighted scores up. Call that "X". Now just add up all the daily miles (unweighted), call that "Y". When X/Y = .995 or higher, you score will report 100. If you are under 100 and want to know how many 100 miles you need to get your average up to .995, or 99.5, just use goal seek in excel to figure that for you. Likewise, you can just do the brute force method and add the same number of miles to each "X" and "Y" until you get a .99.5 result. Enjoy, Homie's!

 

[tivoboy]

It was reported yesterday that Elon thinks the cutoff will be around 80%, but it could take forever to those in the 80's to see the actual download. Only a 1000 downloads per day, starting with those who have scored 100 and have a reasonable amount of miles accumulated. With 100's of thousands of beta button requests, many could be driving like nannies (or opting out) for many months.

Ill go out on a limb here and say at this point it’s probably NOT 100’s of thousands who have clicked the beta button at this point. I also doubt that it will get to that point anytime soon. At this point I would be very surprised if its more than 25-50K.. I know that is a big range but there are a lot of variables. Also consider, it’s probably only USA at this point, not many legacy S or some X models and only buyers of FSD of M3 who bought FSD and have done the HW3 upgrade or since HW3 was standard, 2021 M3 and MY, etc. just sayin’

 

[scottf200]

Had 2 trips before I could see my score, first trip was a drive to the airport about 18 miles mostly on AP, second trip was a drive back from the airport two days later, more manual driving. Got 79 on the first 100 on the second. Been doing more manual driving and have had 100 ever since. My overall currently sits at 94, don't know how many 100 over how many miles I'll have to do to get it closer to 100 but doesn't seem likely within the 2 weeks time period as I only drive about 30miles each day.

Just do the math.... Do a weighted daily average (each day's miles times score for that day divided by 100). Add all of the days weighted scores up. Call that "X". Now just add up all the daily miles (unweighted), call that "Y". When X/Y = .995 or higher, you score will report 100. If you are under 100 and want to know how many 100 miles you need to get your average up to .995, or 99.5, just use goal seek in excel to figure that for you. Likewise, you can just do the brute force method and add the same number of miles to each "X" and "Y" until you get a .99.5 result. Enjoy, Homie's!

SumProduct (Weight Average) in Excel or Google Sheets would seem to work.
Here is an example:

 

[_jal_]

I had a 97 (98? Don’t quite remember) going into yesterday. Yesterday I did a 600 mile road trip to a vendor. Two stops to charge and the stop at the vendor. And a couple used-coffee disposal breaks at rest stops. The stretch to the first rest stop had 0 hard brakes and that included all the stops I made getting out of Chicago. Then I had to brake for a yellow light, and I guess I braked “hard” to get into the turn lane for a turn. I don’t know exactly, but none were dangerous. I didn’t care too much cuz I thought those were my only few “hard” braking events I’d ever logged. Well, now I have a 94 cuz yesterday’s 93 is mileage weighted against all the other days.
This is just stupid statistics. You can’t average averages - that’s a statistics cardinal sin. It should be hard braking events per total braking events or hard braking events per mile driven, but the fact I drove 600 miles yesterday and probably had fewer braking events than I do in a normal 60 mile day shouldn’t make yesterday’s braking events more consequential just cuz I drove more that day. I call bullshit

 

[Raiders]

I just don't see how the Safety Score alone will be the deciding factor in who officially gets entered into the expanded Beta group. I think there will be many other hidden factors that haven't been Tweeted yet by Elon like usage of the current autopilot software, driver attention on the road monitored from the internal camera and how often you take control of the car while in autopilot when you observe a pending hazard. My prediction is that there will be a minimum score required (80?) to even be considered for it. Yes, those that have earned perfect 100's will get it first, but morons like myself down in the low/mid 90's will get it too.

This Safety Score reminds me of Strava when I was a hardcore road cyclist. Getting KOM's on meaningless Strava segments became the focus of many of my fellow clubmates and it was comical to watch it occur on group rides. I saw multiple Tesla owners on my commute this morning (Los Angeles area) driving their cars like golf carts and leaving maximum space all over the place.

 

[EVNow]

At this point I would be very surprised if its more than 25-50K..

Yes.

If we assume everyone who downloaded the newest app from apkmirror and equal number of iOS users, we get about 26k. There may be quite a few waiting for the app in the official store ... so 25k to 50k looks like a good estimate.

That means everyone who requested and get above 80 score - should be able to get into beta within 2 months. Shorter if the ramp gets faster / #s are lower.

 

[EVNow]

I think there will be many other hidden factors that haven't been Tweeted yet by Elon like usage of the current autopilot software, driver attention on the road monitored from the internal camera and how often you take control of the car while in autopilot when you observe a pending hazard.

No. They have not specified anything about the camera - so they can't turn it on and spy you.

The only other considerations could be geography and actual model - but that would be for rollout and filtering.

The whole point of making a complicated safety score is that it captures all the things you care for and you can use that one score for decision making. Absolutely no point in adding hidden filters later resulting in bad press.

 

[Knightshade]

No. They have not specified anything about the camera - so they can't turn it on and spy you.

The internal camera monitoring the driver was explicitly mentioned in the release notes.

The footage doesn't get sent to Tesla- all processing and determining attention is done on-car.

The cabin camera above your rearview mirror can now determine driver inattentiveness and provide you with audible alerts, to remind you to keep your eyes on the road when Autopilot is engaged. Camera images do not leave the vehicle itself, which means the system cannot save or transmit information unless you enable data sharing. To change your data settings, tap Controls > Safety & Security > Data Sharing on your car's touchscreen.

Previously this was included for no-radar cars in an earlier release.

 

[Raiders]

I wonder why speeding wouldn't be one of the metrics for the safety score?

 

[EVNow]

The internal camera monitoring the driver was explicitly mentioned in the release notes.

The footage doesn't get sent to Tesla- all processing and determining attention is done on-car.

Not part of safety rating and can't leave the car. So, obviously can't be used for filtering.

More importantly, there is absolutely no reason why Tesla would hide this if they were going to use it.

 

[tivoboy]

Yes.

If we assume everyone who downloaded the newest app from apkmirror and equal number of iOS users, we get about 26k. There may be quite a few waiting for the app in the official store ... so 25k to 50k looks like a good estimate.

That means everyone who requested and get above 80 score - should be able to get into beta within 2 months. Shorter if the ramp gets faster / #s are lower.

A lot of IOS users have auto download app updates on, so that group may not be 100% an active category.. For the android users who STILL cannot get the app update off the official play store, yeah I’d put near 100% of them as actively interested in FSD Beta OR just oddly curious of their safety score (god help that person).

 

[Magnetic]

What I find interesting is that after you consent to have your data collected, it didn't seem possible to associate any past telemetry. And yes, while past telemetry sent via the cloud was anonymous, stuff is still logged in the car. Service has pulled logs from my car from 2 years back, sometimes doing so remotely. So I have to conclude that until the button firmware, Tesla was not logging at the car level some or all of the 5 weights. The car logs definitely has accel/decel, as Tesla has had to rely on that data to refute the crazy Chinese woman who protested on the roof of a Model 3 in Shanghai earlier this year. FCW is very likely logged at the car level as well.

IF Tesla, after you consent, could have just pulled your car logs and derived the safety score, why subject us all to a week or two of gaming the score, when unbiased data is readily available? It kinda lends credence to the idea that they are looking for the best gamers.... the people going way out of their way to get FSD might be the ones most desperate not to lose the privilege, and therefore will be safe.

I would agree with your point, except that when there is a crash investigation all the data is collected and provided to investigators. Also NHTSA is requesting all the data too on Tesla vehicles. If it was just that simple data as described above it would not be of great value to an investigation. Here is the detailed list of items requested: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2021/INIM-PE21020-84913P.pdf As you can clearly see, there is a huge amount of vehicle telemtry data captured by Tesla. So it clearly is not simple and is very informative. So I think my argument stands why the Safety score, you have all the data pertaining to each vin already. Maybe it is a beta test run for their Tesla Insurance offering(s) under the FSD Beta Safety Scores to help them refine it.

In the end how will you know whether the first to start receiving the Beta all scored 100. Will they publish the vin's, names and scores so we can see they are abiding to their word? Here's one for you, who was the winner of the trip to Norway to test out a Tesla in the winter back in 2018/2019, for those of you who were around then and may have responded to that opportunity? Did it ever get published along with their write up?

 

[jebinc]

Ill go out on a limb here and say at this point it’s probably NOT 100’s of thousands who have clicked the beta button at this point. I also doubt that it will get to that point anytime soon. At this point I would be very surprised if its more than 25-50K.. I know that is a big range but there are a lot of variables. Also consider, it’s probably only USA at this point, not many legacy S or some X models and only buyers of FSD of M3 who bought FSD and have done the HW3 upgrade or since HW3 was standard, 2021 M3 and MY, etc. just sayin’

@tivoboy I encourage you to review Elon’s most recent tweets. He was overwhelmed by the number of people who pushed the button. Where are you getting your information from that is counter to this?