At least City of SJ indicated you can follow the Mfg guidelines, due to the UL listing.
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Santa Clara County retroactively Changing ESS Rules
- Thread starter Vines
- Start date
Sigh...just got this email from Tesla...
"I actually wanted to take a moment to circle back on the Powerwall location. Per an updated and sweeping code requirement in California regarding not only battery storage size, but the actual installation locations; Powerwall installation to the interior of the home requires an interconnected smoke and heat detection system. Meaning we can no longer install Powerwalls on the interior of the garage."
Does this ring a bell for anyone? @Vines @wwhitney @BGbreeder
Any recent Jan 1st code changes you are aware of that prevent ESS installation inside the garage?
The only thing I can think of is:
1207.11.6 Fire Detection
Rooms and areas within dwellings units, sleeping units and attached garages in which ESS are installed shall be protected by smoke alarms in accordance with Section 907.2.11. A heat detector listed and interconnected to the smoke alarms shall be installed in locations within dwelling units, sleeping units and attached garages where smoke alarms cannot be installed based on their listing.
But I didn't think this was new at all...
"I actually wanted to take a moment to circle back on the Powerwall location. Per an updated and sweeping code requirement in California regarding not only battery storage size, but the actual installation locations; Powerwall installation to the interior of the home requires an interconnected smoke and heat detection system. Meaning we can no longer install Powerwalls on the interior of the garage."
Does this ring a bell for anyone? @Vines @wwhitney @BGbreeder
Any recent Jan 1st code changes you are aware of that prevent ESS installation inside the garage?
The only thing I can think of is:
1207.11.6 Fire Detection
Rooms and areas within dwellings units, sleeping units and attached garages in which ESS are installed shall be protected by smoke alarms in accordance with Section 907.2.11. A heat detector listed and interconnected to the smoke alarms shall be installed in locations within dwelling units, sleeping units and attached garages where smoke alarms cannot be installed based on their listing.
But I didn't think this was new at all...
Looks like I may not have posted this here before:
On the difficulty of installing an interconnected UL 217 heat alarm in a garage (because they all require an ambient temperature of at most 100F, and unconditioned garages may exceed 100F), there is a solution available, which I first observed here:
This Kidde Relay Module will accept an external input from a switch to trigger interconnected smoke alarms:
www.kidde.com
So in the garage you can install a mechanical 194F heat detector (IIRC, good for ambient up to 150F), with some low voltage wiring to a conditioned space, and then install the Kidde Relay Module in the conditioned space, interconnected to the existing smoke alarms. Not sure how brand interoperability of UL 217 smoke alarms works; this might require change all the smokes in the house to Kidde brand.
Cheers, Wayne
On the difficulty of installing an interconnected UL 217 heat alarm in a garage (because they all require an ambient temperature of at most 100F, and unconditioned garages may exceed 100F), there is a solution available, which I first observed here:
Heat Detection for Energy Storage Systems
For a while they were not per the fire chief, but later he rescinded the order, so now they are. The people whose PowerWalls had had to be installed on an outside wall during the time the order was in force had their equipment fail to keep them in power during the Snowpocalypse outage because...
forums.mikeholt.com
This Kidde Relay Module will accept an external input from a switch to trigger interconnected smoke alarms:
Smoke Alarm Relay Module SM120X | Kidde
SM120X can be used to activate auxiliary warning devices such as external bells and sirens, hallway or stairway lighting.
So in the garage you can install a mechanical 194F heat detector (IIRC, good for ambient up to 150F), with some low voltage wiring to a conditioned space, and then install the Kidde Relay Module in the conditioned space, interconnected to the existing smoke alarms. Not sure how brand interoperability of UL 217 smoke alarms works; this might require change all the smokes in the house to Kidde brand.
Cheers, Wayne
Looks like I may not have posted this here before:
On the difficulty of installing an interconnected UL 217 heat alarm in a garage (because they all require an ambient temperature of at most 100F, and unconditioned garages may exceed 100F), there is a solution available, which I first observed here:
Heat Detection for Energy Storage Systems
For a while they were not per the fire chief, but later he rescinded the order, so now they are. The people whose PowerWalls had had to be installed on an outside wall during the time the order was in force had their equipment fail to keep them in power during the Snowpocalypse outage because...forums.mikeholt.com
This Kidde Relay Module will accept an external input from a switch to trigger interconnected smoke alarms:
Smoke Alarm Relay Module SM120X | Kidde
SM120X can be used to activate auxiliary warning devices such as external bells and sirens, hallway or stairway lighting.
So in the garage you can install a mechanical 194F heat detector (IIRC, good for ambient up to 150F), with some low voltage wiring to a conditioned space, and then install the Kidde Relay Module in the conditioned space, interconnected to the existing smoke alarms. Not sure how brand interoperability of UL 217 smoke alarms works; this might require change all the smokes in the house to Kidde brand.
Cheers, Wayne
Thanks @wwhitney, will look into this. If new Smokes are required, would I be able to re-use existing interconnect wiring? Or would i likely have to swap out the smokes + rewire all the interconnects (that would be messy & expensive).
I still can't understand how NEC/construction rules are this strict. But NHTSA/DOT allows a Beta-FSD-equipped or Phantom-Breaking-equipped Tesla on the roads with an emphatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Maybe NHTSA/DOT will require FSD Teslas to have bollards taped to the hoods.
Maybe NHTSA/DOT will require FSD Teslas to have bollards taped to the hoods.
If the current interconnect wiring is compliant, it would work with any brand of smoke alarms.
Cheers, Wayne
Ok guys, my new PWs just passed inspection and just got PTO today. They are installed inside my garage on the left hand side wall (shared with house). They are 3ft from the garage door to the house, and they have a heat detector installed right above them that IS NOT connected to our fire detection system. In fact, there is a bulletin out from county fire (I’m in Santa Clara County Fire District) that states this requirement is impossible to meet since they do not know of a compliant product. So a non-connected heat detector is fine. I passed inspection with no issues - even after my vendor enraged the planning department (Apparently not hard to do). Yes, you can have your PWs installed in garages, but back walls still require bollards.
Wow, your different experience blows me away, I am currently chasing down expensive wireless interconnected heat smoke and co alarms.
Please send this document over since I haven't seen this yet. My other experiences with SCC Fire haven't been so easy. I literally was rejected for a permit where the home had an existing heat alarm with a 135F trigger temperature HD6135FB and it was interconnected and this was deemed unacceptable. This actual plan check comment from SCC Fire was written Dec 30:
Rooms and areas within dwelling units, basements, and attached garages in which ESS are installed shall
be protected by smoke alarms in accordance with Section R314. A listed heat detector shall be installed in
locations within dwelling units and attached garages where smoke alarms cannot be installed based on
their listing. SCCFD acknowledges that there is currently a lack of listed heat alarms for unconditioned
spaces as outlined by the Office of the State Fire Marshal Informational Bulletin 21-004. As an alternate, a
heat detector powered by a circuit that is integrated with the ESS shall be provided. Activation of the heat
detector shall provide audible notification at the sleeping areas. CRC R327.7
1. Provide the material cut sheet for the proposed heat detector.
2. Confirm that the ambient working temperature is suitable for unconditioned garage space.
2. Provide written response to all plan check comments.
The heat alarm requirement is a challenge in some places more than others.
We have just onboarded with a company providing wireless interconnected heat, smoke and CO alarms to satisfy this requirement. It is actually a pretty nice product and fully OSFM approved. I will be trying the system out for my home so I know what it is and what it is not.
I appreciate there is a kiddie relay module available to accomplish this as well, but since a truly wireless solution exists I am leaning that way for simplicity. Plus it has nice features like text and email alerts if the alarms start sounding, and a battery health gauge to see the remaining charge. These wireless heat alarms have an adjustable trigger point of up to 175F with rate of rise as well.
I can’t find the bulletin. In fact I can’t seem to locate the link with the code requirements at the moment. But County fire basically said that if there wasn’t a widely available interconnected heat detector product that would work with all the wired systems currently installed, then there wasn’t a product that was available. You can’t require someone to install a product that doesn’t exist. So at least Santa Clara County Fire is allowing the non-wired Kidde heat detector to be installed, which is what I have. AFAIK the code requirements have not changed since I applied for my permit (or they would’ve been listed as changed on the county website, which they’re not). You’re limited to 2 PWs, on the side walls of the garage, must have a heat detector and be 3ft from a dwelling entrance and batteries 3ft apart from themselves. Anything other than that runs into No or renders your garage unusable due to bollards. I BARELY got them into my garage - you need at least 10 ft of uninterrupted garage wall.
I should also mention that I had a 3rd party install them, not Tesla because they are fully rebated by PG&E under the SGIP program and Tesla had long run out of their money by the time I applied and were no longer participating in the program.
Yes, you will need to add a heat detector (it’s a regular Kidde model) right above the inverter. They want one specifically for the batteries. It doesn’t matter what else you have installed in the garage. I have a full sprinkler system they completely ignored. So it looks like they integrated the bulletin into the requirements. That’s good. I can totally assure you that the heat detector is not integrated with our wired fire alarm system since ours dates to ‘87 and is actually broken currently (we have new unwired alarms stuck up temporarily). Let me see if I have the cut sheet for the and I can take a pic for you.
I literally had the same heat detector but branded by first alert instead of Kidde, and it was interconnected. I still got rejected with the comment I posted.
I wonder if this is a case where they were lenient to you, or if they have changed their requirements.
I think they might only like the Kidde version. My husband is an electrician and he only buys Kidde brand - knows they pass inspection. Same with Eaton. He deals with inspectors constantly. I’ll ask him when he gets home about the heat detector. He has the full plans. I don’t.
That would be strange since I heard they are the same guts, just with a different case.
If that is truly the reason they disapproved my First Alert HD6135FB, we could easily use those instead.
Nah - not a first alert issue. Mine is a 1st alert - and they used a Kidde spec sheet. It’s not a problem here’s the picture: it has to be wired to the Tesla stuff, not the fire alarm.
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