Santa Clara County retroactively Changing ESS Rules

[Vines]

I posted here... Garth Robertshaw in Contra Costa County disagrees with you. He said the switch on the side of the Powerwall does not count; and LOTO clips aren't safe due to line of sight. So the disconnect has to be next to the Powerwall on the same side of the wall.

Question about 120 percent NEC rule with Tesla Gateway 2

Lol you actually found those LOTO clips? Yeah I think those clips should be a good compromise between putting lots of blades next to the ESS or putting a sub panel full of OCPDs next to the ESS. Well, unless you're doing an install in Contra Costa County. In case it got lost in this thread...

teslamotorsclub.com

Here is the document we created, and the SEAC website has lots of good information.
NEC Disconnect Requirements for Energy Storage Systems - Sustainable Energy Action Committee

 

[holeydonut]

Dang, that's a bomb-azz looking disconnect. What brand is that? Way more S3XY than the crappy Square D one I have on my wall.

Avatar. Changed.

 

[Vines]

Dang, that's a bomb-azz looking disconnect. What brand is that? Way more S3XY than the crappy Square D one I have on my wall.

Avatar. Changed.

Looks like a SS version that has been rendered.

Here is a nice example from Siemens that looks very similar.
Siemens Fusible Single Throw Safety Switch, Heavy Duty, 600V AC, 3PST, 200 A HF364S | Zoro

 

[BGbreeder]

What am I missing about stainless electrical equipment? The pricing seems so out of line with the difference in material costs. Is it that changing from steel to stainless steel in a design requires re-certification? I needed a salt spray resistant switch box for an application, and it was, well, pricey. I get going from 3R to 4X or higher, but not steel to stainless.

Befuddled.

BG

 

[holeydonut]

Looks like a SS version that has been rendered.

Here is a nice example from Siemens that looks very similar.
Siemens Fusible Single Throw Safety Switch, Heavy Duty, 600V AC, 3PST, 200 A HF364S | Zoro

$3,900???????????????

 

[Vines]

What am I missing about stainless electrical equipment? The pricing seems so out of line with the difference in material costs. Is it that changing from steel to stainless steel in a design requires re-certification? I needed a salt spray resistant switch box for an application, and it was, well, pricey. I get going from 3R to 4X or higher, but not steel to stainless.

Befuddled.

BG

I think it's because the volume is so low but they still have to be listed and tested.

Often the stainless requirement comes from a location with process engineering chemical exposures and I think some government RFP specify them.

 

[heather5551212]

You nailed it on the head I think, with the internal issues at SCC permitting. I cannot say which department is more difficult, but from my experience, it is fire that is difficult to get a permit from.

Well, just don’t try to add on sq ft or build a new home. Then all the departments are impossible. For example, they randomly decided about 10 years-ish ago to increase setbacks from 50 ft to 100 ft from the road. No reason why. No apparent safety issue cited, but it rendered almost every single home on my road, including mine out of compliance. If my house burned down, I would not be able to rebuild as it’s only 60’ from the road. It isn’t a fire requirement. No one knows what or why the requirement is there and they refuse to explain it.

 

[heather5551212]

Yeah, I'm in Contra Costa and they said that violates NEC rules around "line of sight" where someone working on the Powerwalls in the garage has to be able to see the disconnect(s) for safety. Even if my garage wall was transparent, I would still need to put disconnects on the same wall surface as the Powerwalls.

You can see the disconnect it’s just on the other side of the Powerwall that’s outside of this picture. It doesn’t violate line of sight. This picture isn’t the entire install.

 

[Vines]

Well, installing Powerwalls in a garage just got a bit easier since we have a heat detector that County of Santa Clara Fire Department will accept in . Even better that it is wireless and interconnected, but it is not cheap. It is listed and can be set for a trigger temperature of 117, 135 or 175F, so the worry about a too high ambient temperature in the garage with the other heat alarm (HD6135FB) goes away.

I just installed a set of these for my personal home, and am so far very impressed. OmniShield – Welcome to Your Home Safe Network

Before recommending them I needed first-hand experience and I like them so far. I bought 4 smoke alarms, 1 heat detector and 1 CO detector. I also bought the CommLink which allows you to interact with them on your phone through the internet. I can set up to EDIT: 8 contacts that are able to get a text message whenever an alarm goes off in my house. Also, I can look at each individual detector, and see what the smoke level is, how badly it needs to be cleaned, how much battery life is left, and what the approximate air temperature is at each unit. Here is a screenshot of the app interface showing the status of the individual alarm:

So far the only downsides are the cost, and that the CO is a separate alarm instead of integrated with the smoke units. Interconnection was literally automatic, as long as all units are turned on within 1 minute of each other and within wireless range. Setting up the wifi network with the CommLink took a couple of tries before it all worked. They have a 10 year lifespan and expected battery life at least.

Wireless range also seems pretty amazing. I still get signal in a detached building which is 120' away, and another 30' of distance inside that building. This is with wood siding on both buildings and no windows open. They say the wireless interconnection range is 200' and each individual unit is itself a signal repeater.

Unfortunately, the average consumer cannot buy these off the shelf. They are dealer-installed only but will make a good solution so that our garage mounted Powerwalls are easy to pass inspection.

 

[holeydonut]

Well, installing Powerwalls in a garage just got a bit easier since we have a heat detector that County of Santa Clara Fire Department will accept in . Even better that it is wireless and interconnected, but it is not cheap. It is listed and can be set for a trigger temperature of 117, 135 or 175F, so the worry about a too high ambient temperature in the garage with the other heat alarm (HD6135FB) goes away.

I just installed a set of these for my personal home, and am so far very impressed. OmniShield – Welcome to Your Home Safe Network

Before recommending them I needed first-hand experience and I like them so far. I bought 4 smoke alarms, 1 heat detector and 1 CO detector. I also bought the CommLink which allows you to interact with them on your phone through the internet. I can set up to 10 contacts that are able to get a text message whenever an alarm goes off in my house. Also, I can look at each individual detector, and see what the smoke level is, how badly it needs to be cleaned, how much battery life is left, and what the approximate air temperature is at each unit. Here is a screenshot of the app interface showing the status of the individual alarm:
View attachment 908040



So far the only downsides are the cost, and that the CO is a separate alarm instead of integrated with the smoke units. Interconnection was literally automatic, as long as all units are turned on within 1 minute of each other and within wireless range. Setting up the wifi network with the CommLink took a couple of tries before it all worked. They have a 10 year lifespan and expected battery life at least.

Wireless range also seems pretty amazing. I still get signal in a detached building which is 120' away, and another 30' of distance inside that building. This is with wood siding on both buildings and no windows open. They say the wireless interconnection range is 200' and each individual unit is itself a signal repeater.

Unfortunately, the average consumer cannot buy these off the shelf. They are dealer-installed only but will make a good solution so that our garage mounted Powerwalls are easy to pass inspection.

Wow this post should be a sticky so it doesn't get lost on page 19 of this thread. I think the 120-percent rule, 36" rule, bollards, head sensors, and line of sight rules should be aggregate somewhere hah.

 

[YRide]

Well, installing Powerwalls in a garage just got a bit easier since we have a heat detector that County of Santa Clara Fire Department will accept in . Even better that it is wireless and interconnected, but it is not cheap. It is listed and can be set for a trigger temperature of 117, 135 or 175F, so the worry about a too high ambient temperature in the garage with the other heat alarm (HD6135FB) goes away.

I just installed a set of these for my personal home, and am so far very impressed. OmniShield – Welcome to Your Home Safe Network

Before recommending them I needed first-hand experience and I like them so far. I bought 4 smoke alarms, 1 heat detector and 1 CO detector. I also bought the CommLink which allows you to interact with them on your phone through the internet. I can set up to EDIT: 8 contacts that are able to get a text message whenever an alarm goes off in my house. Also, I can look at each individual detector, and see what the smoke level is, how badly it needs to be cleaned, how much battery life is left, and what the approximate air temperature is at each unit. Here is a screenshot of the app interface showing the status of the individual alarm:
View attachment 908040



So far the only downsides are the cost, and that the CO is a separate alarm instead of integrated with the smoke units. Interconnection was literally automatic, as long as all units are turned on within 1 minute of each other and within wireless range. Setting up the wifi network with the CommLink took a couple of tries before it all worked. They have a 10 year lifespan and expected battery life at least.

Wireless range also seems pretty amazing. I still get signal in a detached building which is 120' away, and another 30' of distance inside that building. This is with wood siding on both buildings and no windows open. They say the wireless interconnection range is 200' and each individual unit is itself a signal repeater.

Unfortunately, the average consumer cannot buy these off the shelf. They are dealer-installed only but will make a good solution so that our garage mounted Powerwalls are easy to pass inspection.

Very cool that this is finally existing and getting validation. About time. Funny enough, I decided in the end to just go with the exterior wall for the 4x PW’s and save internal garage space.

That said, how much was this fire/smoke/heat/CO/hub system?

 

[Vines]

Very cool that this is finally existing and getting validation. About time. Funny enough, I decided in the end to just go with the exterior wall for the 4x PW’s and save internal garage space.

That said, how much was this fire/smoke/heat/CO/hub system?

Agreed, about time there is an easy solution for this.

My wife cooked bacon over the weekend and the kitchen got really smoky with no alarm going off. When looking at the app, the heat alarm did recognize it was warm in that room but not dangerous.

The unit in my laser shed about 100' away from the house still interconnects with the other units to go off in an alarm or test scenario but it does not transmit the temperature of the unit reliably. I understand the same will be true of the battery SoC data but since mine are all at 100% charge it is hard to see that difference currently. The manufacturer says the verbose data may update if it finds a connection occasionally. The rest of the units operate normally.

I paid about $800 for my system components, which include lifetime SMS text alerts.

 

[YRide]

Agreed, about time there is an easy solution for this.

My wife cooked bacon over the weekend and the kitchen got really smoky with no alarm going off. When looking at the app, the heat alarm did recognize it was warm in that room but not dangerous.

The unit in my laser shed about 100' away from the house still interconnects with the other units to go off in an alarm or test scenario but it does not transmit the temperature of the unit reliably. I understand the same will be true of the battery SoC data but since mine are all at 100% charge it is hard to see that difference currently. The manufacturer says the verbose data may update if it finds a connection occasionally. The rest of the units operate normally.

I paid about $800 for my system components, which include lifetime SMS text alerts.

Not cheap, but also not terrible considering wireless, and multiple components in the system. Plus, apparently, very little competition at the moment!

 

[wwu123]

If that is $800 for the six detectors, hub, and app functionality, that would not bad given the features. My six Nest Protect smoke/CO detectors have been working well, but I have about four years left, they self-disable after 10-years automatically - so planning ahead, as they would be about $120 each to replace (I didn't pay that much for them). I wouldn't mind adding a heat detector to the garage, even without Powerwalls, for peace-of-mind for the two Tesla's parked inside.

Does 20-year built-in battery mean the OmniShield detectors will function for 20 years?

But reading through their website, it didn't say where to buy them, so Googling around it seems you can only buy through MLM salespeople? And sounded like folks were getting quotes for $2000 for three detectors, so closer to $700-800 per sensor? Not saying it's overpriced, it could be worth it for certain features - just again doing some planning for when the Nests die...

 

[Vines]

If that is $800 for the six detectors, hub, and app functionality, that would not bad given the features. My six Nest Protect smoke/CO detectors have been working well, but I have about four years left, they self-disable after 10-years automatically - so planning ahead, as they would be about $120 each to replace (I didn't pay that much for them). I wouldn't mind adding a heat detector to the garage, even without Powerwalls, for peace-of-mind for the two Tesla's parked inside.

Does 20-year built-in battery mean the OmniShield detectors will function for 20 years?

But reading through their website, it didn't say where to buy them, so Googling around it seems you can only buy through MLM salespeople? And sounded like folks were getting quotes for $2000 for three detectors, so closer to $700-800 per sensor? Not saying it's overpriced, it could be worth it for certain features - just again doing some planning for when the Nests die...

10 years is the maximum life span of a smoke or heat detector, then they are supposed to be replaced. Despite that the battery will last longer they will start alerting you after 10 years that it is time to replace it, regardless of the battery life at that point.

These are available through distributors only and the price I paid reflects my position at the company. Per the dealer agreement nobody can resell these on the internet, they must be installed by authorized dealers. If you are interested in a set, please send me a PM.

There are some other people who are also selling these alarms and they might be charging more, even much more. I have no opinion or control over that. From my information, there isn't another dealer currently offering them in Northern California.

 

[Redhill_qik]

The unit in my laser shed about 100' away from the house

You have a shed for a laser? I'm very curious about that.

 

[Vines]

You have a shed for a laser? I'm very curious about that.

I have a side business creating the plastic placards that we use for directories and placards.

It is a 2 axis laser cutter/engraver, powered by a 80W CO2 laser.

I can cut and engrave, wood, and plastic and engrave glass. With this level of power I can blast off the anodizing of metal to make a design but I can't really cut metal of any thickness. The table is 18" x 24" and I have it hooked up to a HEPA filter with charcoal element to eliminate the burning plastic smell.

 

[holeydonut]

I have a side business creating the plastic placards that we use for directories and placards.

It is a 2 axis laser cutter/engraver, powered by a 80W CO2 laser.

I can cut and engrave, wood, and plastic and engrave glass. With this level of power I can blast off the anodizing of metal to make a design but I can't really cut metal of any thickness. The table is 18" x 24" and I have it hooked up to a HEPA filter with charcoal element to eliminate the burning plastic smell.

Can confirm, Vines' placards are way better looking and informative than the trash stickers and placard Sunrun was using. Plus they're color-matched to the house!

 

[sonicP3D]

Does the "3 feet from anything" rule apply to AC condenser units?

 

[heather5551212]

Does the "3 feet from anything" rule apply to AC condenser units?

Probably, if you’re talking about Santa Clara County building department….. they rank up there with the worst departments to work with.