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Sat for 40 min at 0kw supercharging

Discussion in 'Model S' started by YauKwan, Mar 13, 2017.

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  1. YauKwan

    YauKwan Member

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    Anyone experience this with cold weather and super low battery?

    I switched several superchargers but it would not charge and some were unpaired.

    Started to work and charge about 40 minutes later.

    I could not leave. Didn't have enough charge to get to next destination. Frustrating.
     

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  2. K-MTG

    K-MTG Sunshade Captain of TMC

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    The battery probably had to heat up??
     
  3. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    Did you charge there first thing in the morning? If the battery is too cold it won't supercharge until it warms up. If you were driving long distance, that shouldn't have occured since the battery is kept warm while driving.

    However, if you had left the car overnight unplugged, that could happen. If this is the case, it might be best to stay places with destination or Level 2 charging available when its very cold so the car can remain plugged in.


    Edit: an alternative would be to supercharge some amount the night before while the battery is warmed up.
     
  4. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

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    I've seen reports of this. Seems to affect the newer packs more so than Gen 1.
     
  5. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    There are half a dozen reports like yours; we still don't fully understand them. It seems to be something new added to the programming with the second generation chemistry with increased silicon anodes (75/90/100).

    Best guess is that the pack has to be at a certain temperature to accept charge and the car is heating during the wait. There is some reason to believe that when the car is driving at very low states of charge it shuts off battery heating to extend the range, and I suspect the pack may cool off during that time if driven in cold weather.
     
  6. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    In this case could having Range Mode on be the culprit? Unless its happening in both modes.
     
  7. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    Need more data. The couple references to not heating below 15% SoC I've seen seemed to suggest that it's load shedding behavior independent of mode, but I haven't seen anyone speak authoritatively on the subject. Haven't seen if folks were in range mode or not in all the reports either.

    I've never encountered it with my X, but I think the lowest I've hit a Supercharger was 7%, and I've never started charging at a low level after a long delay that would result in a cold battery.
     
  8. YauKwan

    YauKwan Member

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    Range mode off.

    And it should have warmed up the battery on my drive to the station about 30 minutes.

    It's also happening to the guy next to me and that's an ap1 or preap1.

    Mine is ap2 2016 60d.

    I was below 15% only had 15 miles so about 9%.

    Just data for the smarter people out there.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. Zeromus-X

    Zeromus-X Member

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    I reported this a few months back, thinking it was a problem with the Supercharger that I was trying to use. I arrived at 2%. Plugged in and it basically gave me nothing for almost a half hour. Fortunately I was able to grab dinner and by the time our appetizers came out, I noticed on the app that I was pulling appropriate power. I was definitely concerned about being stranded.

    I'm not sure it has anything to do with pack temperature since I had driven from Santa Cruz to Gustine, a little under two hours' trip. Pretty sure if you arrive below about 5% you're going to be sitting a while. I don't use Range Mode or anything either.
     
    • Informative x 1
  10. andrewket

    andrewket Well-Known Member

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    A few months ago it was thought that this was a bug. I'm surprised we're still seeing this behavior.
     
  11. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    Yeah, we have seen reports of this. And Tesla even told one person to move to a nearby Level 2 charger since it would charge and warm the battery up at the same time, and then one it got to charging at full Level 2 speed they could move back to the Supercharger to finish charging.

    It doesn't make any sense to me that they can't ramp the Supercharger like they can the Level 2 charging... Probably just a firmware issue that they need to resolve. (BTW What firmware version are you on?)
     
  12. snowphoenix

    snowphoenix Member

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    Just as a comparison data point of observed behavior when DC fast charging cold lithium batteries: a 2012 Nissan Leaf with a cold soaked battery maxes out at L2 charge rates when connected to a 50 kW DC Chademo L3 charger, at least until the battery warms up. In the deep cold, L2 rates may not be high enough to raise the temperature. As a workaround, if there is still enough charge in the pack for a few more miles, rapid discharge via repeated hard acceleration is another way to warm up a pack. This takes advantage of the cell's internal resistance to heat the cells; the heavy discharges magnify the effect.
     
  13. Mattzilla

    Mattzilla Member

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    Happened to me a few months back at the Seaside, OR supercharger. Had been driving for over two hours continuously and came rolling in with 2-3% remaining. Range mode off.
     
  14. Brass Guy

    Brass Guy Member

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    It sounds like people are driving a while then hitting a supercharger at very low SOC. Did anyone notice a severe regen limit? I cannot imagine why a car could regen at 60kW but not supercharge at least that level. It'd have to be a software bug.
     
  15. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT Quickish

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    If it happened to another car perhaps there was a glitch with the electricity distributor to the site?
     
  16. rypalmer

    rypalmer Member

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    I believe this was me. I had the exact issue described above.

    Long story short, if you arrive cold and near fully discharged and SCing has any hesitation, try plugging into a L2 outlet first.
     
    • Like x 1
  17. bro1999

    bro1999 Active Member

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    What is this? If a battery is "too cold" and/or too low SOC, the SC can't charge at reduced rates while the TMS is active heating the HV battery??
    The couple of times I've plugged my Bolt into a 125A CCS station when the HV battery is "cold" (~40F), charge rate has been reduced (18-24 kW) but it started taking a charge right away while the TMS heated the battery (2 kW draw on the heater)
     
  18. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    That's normally exactly what happens with a cold battery on a new Tesla - you see charge rates of 30-40 kW for the first twenty or thirty minutes as the car warms up.

    Occasionally cars with the newer packs arriving at very low states of charge are seeing something else. If the reports are to be believed, it doesn't happen every time a very low SoC car plugs in, and we aren't certain how much of a role the cold plays in it.
     
  19. bro1999

    bro1999 Active Member

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    What's the TMS setup in a Tesla? Heating/cooling "pan" or are there loops going between the cells?
     
  20. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    A loop of coolant flows through each module, touching every cell in the module in series (pretty sure the modules are hooked to the overall coolant system in parallel.) There's a dedicated coolant heater (6 kW, I believe,) and a chiller driven off of the A/C system to hold below ambient when needed. The system can either operate with the battery and power electronics loops separated or with them combined into one large system, which includes the ability to use motor/power electronics heat to warm the battery pack. Cabin heating/cooling is separated from the rest (though it's the same A/C compressor.)

    The new architecture for the 100 packs appears to be fundamentally the same, but with two smaller coolant tubes instead of the one larger one. I don't know if both tubes flow the same way, or if they flow from opposite ends, which would seem to even out the within module variations that the current system must experience when extreme heating/cooling is called for.
     

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