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Say no to Saudi Arabia
- Thread starter notacoalminer
- Start date
Lasairfion
Member
Want? If a more preferential buyer appeared then I'd rather that.
However it doesn't bother me enough, comparative to wanting Tesla to be private and free of the vagaries of the stock market; rather how it doesn't bother people enough not to buy Chinese manufactured products despite having a Free Tibet sticker on their car.
NB: Honestly, if your original post had been less dramatic, and more a "I think Saudi is a poor choice due to their human rights issues and oil ties, and other more preferential buyers should be sought instead" post then I'd likely have backed your position all the way.
However it doesn't bother me enough, comparative to wanting Tesla to be private and free of the vagaries of the stock market; rather how it doesn't bother people enough not to buy Chinese manufactured products despite having a Free Tibet sticker on their car.
NB: Honestly, if your original post had been less dramatic, and more a "I think Saudi is a poor choice due to their human rights issues and oil ties, and other more preferential buyers should be sought instead" post then I'd likely have backed your position all the way.
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Wha????? You don't call 9/11 imposing on you in any way??? That government led DIRECTLY to 9/11. Directly. Let's go a step further -- let's say Saudi Arabia comes to dominate the world, more than any other power in history ever has. At the same time, they don't modify their religion, or the power it holds in their society. Would that scenario be imposing on you?
Further, I don't care where they are, or how much their immediate actions affect me sitting here in my first world existence. If something is a *sugar* idea, it's a *sugar* idea, and it needs to be called out, so ppl everywhere have as much freedom and we ourselves desire. Justice is not reserved for the rich.
I remember before 9/11 when the Taliban decided to destroy a couple of rock face statues cause they portrayed 'false deities'. I was pissed. Right then and there I said these guys needed to be dealt with. How could citizens of earth tolerate people that were so backwards and dangerous. No-one else could even tell you who the Taliban was at the time. If everyone involved treats everyone else with respect, then we're all good. But the Saudis are not like that; there clearly is baggage and nastiness involved. Various apologists in this thread have stated more or less "the sun's shining, MBS is going what he can, and things are going to get better." That may or may not be the case, I think the jury is out on that one.
There's degrees in everything in life. Canada is not China, is not Saudi Arabia, is not North Korea. Obviously nothing's perfect, but SA is a little more towards the non-perfect side of things than many ppl are comfortable with.
p.s. Canada's treatment of its indigenous populations through the residential school system is a blacker mark on Canada than us continuing to sell asbestos for much longer than we should have.
Lasairfion
Member
True. I heard about the 'schools'
I rather like this band's music and videos came up in the youtube feeds about it
I rather like this band's music and videos came up in the youtube feeds about it
Shock-On-T
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Not sure how it's ethically different to the Saudis just buying lots of shares in a publicly listed company.
There's degrees in everything in life. Canada is not China, is not Saudi Arabia, is not North Korea. Obviously nothing's perfect, but SA is a little more towards the non-perfect side of things than many ppl are comfortable with.
p.s. Canada's treatment of its indigenous populations through the residential school system is a blacker mark on Canada than us continuing to sell asbestos for much longer than we should have.
Asbestos? US just loosened the regulations:https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/russian-asbestos-trump_face/
Shock-On-T
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A good friend of mine got into drugs and stole a car when he was a teenager. He's now in his late 40s and is the CTO of a large telco.
Sure, it would have been cheaper to cut his hands off 25 years ago, but luckily we live in a country where compassion and common sense prevails.
Yeah nothing surprises me with trump anymore. He thinks the definition of a regulation is something that stops him and his friends from making money.
I wonder if this isn't why Elon Musk wasn't more straight forwards with it.
That obviously to a lot of people this is an extremely negative thing.
Car buying isn't exactly a rational thing. Sure we might use rational justifications for it, but often it's an emotional thing. We're emotionally attached to how it looks, how it performs, to what feelings it invokes.
I recently bought a 4x4 camper van mostly because it represented who I saw myself as. But, did I go on some adventure on the weekend? No, I spent the weekend playing No Man's Sky.
Now I'm not sure how big of a role this will play. Lots of people buy cars purely based on what's in front of them in the moment. My brother recently bought a new VW, and didn't mention a thing about Diesel gate. He got it because it was cheap, and had a good discount.
I'm no better because I only briefly thought about it while placing a meaningless reservation for a Porsche Taycan.
That obviously to a lot of people this is an extremely negative thing.
Car buying isn't exactly a rational thing. Sure we might use rational justifications for it, but often it's an emotional thing. We're emotionally attached to how it looks, how it performs, to what feelings it invokes.
I recently bought a 4x4 camper van mostly because it represented who I saw myself as. But, did I go on some adventure on the weekend? No, I spent the weekend playing No Man's Sky.
Now I'm not sure how big of a role this will play. Lots of people buy cars purely based on what's in front of them in the moment. My brother recently bought a new VW, and didn't mention a thing about Diesel gate. He got it because it was cheap, and had a good discount.
I'm no better because I only briefly thought about it while placing a meaningless reservation for a Porsche Taycan.
Shock-On-T
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I'd be interested to see trends, rather than individual cases. That would show if Saudi is getting better or worse. I have the sense that Saudi is getting better, on average.
It's hard to make comparisons based on individual cases, because just about every country has enough horribleness to fill a blog post.
Shock-On-T
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FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
You must be kidding ... state-sponsored killing and torture are not considered in your stats.
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chibi_kurochan
Member
For context,
the same Saudi money is scattered all over other technologies that we uses daily.. so unless we choose not to use technology, then this is really inevitable. The same Saudi money is funding: Solar farm, ARM (main technology behind all your smarthphones brains), NVIDIA.
Anyhow, I'm sure you get my point. By the same argument, US is currently investing in more oil, coal than renewables. Whereas countries like Norway, Saudi, and China (first two got rich from oil) investing in major renewables.
Saudi-SoftBank tech fund nears $100 billion target
Where the huge SoftBank-Saudi tech fund is investing
SoftBank Vision Fund, Saudi Arabia to create world's biggest solar...
This is where SoftBank’s $98 billion Vision Fund has invested so far
Vision Fund | Softbank
So, I'd rather Tesla go private and stop the Quarterly BS push and focus on long term. Then, maybe (hopefully) Tesla can be as efficient as SpaceX.
A separate note, Tesla need a good COO! like Gwynne Shotwell - Wikipedia
P.S. Similar note, Chinese companies own majorities of "US companies" like AMC, Legendary Entertainment all under Wanda Group. Just to name a few, the list is too long if I have to list them all one by one.
Chinese Conglomerate Buys AMC Movie Chain in U.S.
China’s Dalian Wanda Buys Legendary Entertainment for $3.5 Billion
So should we all stop going to movies and stop watching Hollywood movies? since China own most of it.
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SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
THIS!
And I thought Elon was partly wanting to take Tesla private to prevent the Saudis from buying an even larger share...
To me this is about as surreal as when the Chinese Military Dictatorship bought Volvo Cars from Ford (not the truck manufacturer Volvo Group, which thankfully is another company...).
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
Source?
Wikipedia lists them as the SECOND biggest stockholder, but THIRD biggest when it comes to voting rights:
52.2% Porsche Automobil Holding SE
20.0% State of Lower Saxony [That would be the DEMOCRATIC German government...(My edit.)]
17.0% Qatar Holding LLC
Ludalicious
Active Member
Excellent perspective.
In 2017 the State executed 23 people.
In 2017 Canada Executed 0 People.
I dont believe this has stoped anyone in Canada from buying a Tesla.
That's what I thought too! Saudis buy 3-5%, Elon goes right away to Twitter: "considering going private". I thought he was looking to block any bigger purchase.
You guys can criticize it all you want.
Want to do something about it? Buy more shares, or convince another large investor to invest the money to help Tesla go private.
The world isn't as easy as "I'm not going to have anything to do with any country because I don't like their actions". Not in a financial way with global economics.
SA wants to diversify from oil. This is a good thing.
Does the government of SA also do bad things? You bet they do. But I am not going to punish a company doing good things, for allowing a country to do a good thing, even though they do some bad things.
Besides, I don't think Tesla could stop them from a hostile takeover if SA really put its mind to it, and was patient (as it would take some time).
Want to do something about it? Buy more shares, or convince another large investor to invest the money to help Tesla go private.
The world isn't as easy as "I'm not going to have anything to do with any country because I don't like their actions". Not in a financial way with global economics.
SA wants to diversify from oil. This is a good thing.
Does the government of SA also do bad things? You bet they do. But I am not going to punish a company doing good things, for allowing a country to do a good thing, even though they do some bad things.
Besides, I don't think Tesla could stop them from a hostile takeover if SA really put its mind to it, and was patient (as it would take some time).
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