Self-driving cars UK Discussion

[GRiLLA]

My point was that Tesla doesn't care about Europe, even if the regulations were slightly more lenient than they are now.

Tesla fitted matrix-capable hardware to Model 3s at the start of last year and have done nothing with them since then. it's pretty obvious the hardware is capable of discreet illumination since the lightshow projects "TESLA". That they haven't done anything with it speaks to the fact that they aren't interested in developing for Europe, and that we'll get FSD beta "as is" or not at all. Since regulations are ridiculously slow to evolve it follows we likely won't get it for several years.

Then again, they didn't even have anything ready to go for when the States made it legal not long ago. Logically, therefore, given how shite auto headlights are there's no reason not to assume that any Tesla designed matrix-lighting would be similarly hopeless.

I don't particularly care who gets the blame for stuff not being done, whether it's the UNECE that is stopping Tesla from bothering to iterate around the margins of the restrictions, just for Europe, or whether Tesla just don't care about Europe full stop when it comes to development. Since matrix headlights are still dumb, 1.5 years on, I'm inclined to believe the latter.

At the end of the day, as a customer, I'm bothered about what I actually get. I naively thought 2.5 years ago that FSD would be progressed over here more quickly. If I had known that only the States would see any development (forgetting regulations) then I wouldn't have bothered buying FSD for sure. Whoever is to blame does not alter the fact that the car has basically not changed in autonomous terms in years, a conscious decision by Tesla to the detriment of non-US markets.

Tesla started fitting their 'global' design of headlights (see patent) and tail lights as it meant they would have one part whichever country they were building for. They never advertised them as having a matrix function, Elon hasn't to my knowledge tweeted that they will ever become that. There is nothing at all to beat them up about there at all. I'm far from convinced they have the capability to be matrix, Elon would have said so by now.

I will concede the point about keyfobs vs phones in so far as remote parking goes, except for the fact that my car seems to know acutely where my phone is when I try to use Summon given how easily it fails completely. Summon already works on a dead man's switch on the phone, so I see no reason this couldn't be developed to allow more remote control (e.g. using Bluetooth or wireless, instead of BLE). Do the dedicated keyfobs really know that they're within 10 metres? What technology would that be?

Custom RF as used on many keys. Tesla is fairly unique in using Bluetooth which basically wraps all that up within the Bluetooth chips, making it harder to access. If it had existed at the time UWB would have been a better option, that what some BMW use and is very capable, it just didn't exist until recently and is only on certain high end iPhones.

 

[phonetele226]

If we merely keep talking and saying technology is not ready, it will never get ready. We need to start beta testing today in real-world conditions if we need the technology in 10 years.

We should NOT be beta testing. Tesla should use their own engineers to do testing. To charge us for a not ready piece of software and get us to be testers is ridiculous. You are assuming the risk and paying for the privilege. You are not getting paid to do this. It astounds me that this is happening. It should be illegal.

 

[GRiLLA]

We should NOT be beta testing. Tesla should use their own engineers to do testing. To charge us for a not ready piece of software and get us to be testers is ridiculous. You are assuming the risk and paying for the privilege. You are not getting paid to do this. It astounds me that this is happening. It should be illegal.

I don't think you understand what Beta testing is, by definition it is testing by customers prior to general availability. Tesla can't do beta testing, it would be just testing. They do that as well anyway, we've seen the adverts for testers in the UK.

 

[gangzoom]

Regardless of what you think about the rules, I cannot see how anyone cannot be excited about FSD Beta code development. This isn't Waymo or similar where you need a whole new car and geofenced deployment.

Its mad here in the UK we essentially have no way to access or develop this, even though all our cars can run the code

https://twitter.com/x/status/1561742293496897536

 

[Kevje4]

Tesla started fitting their 'global' design of headlights (see patent) and tail lights as it meant they would have one part whichever country they were building for. They never advertised them as having a matrix function, Elon hasn't to my knowledge tweeted that they will ever become that. There is nothing at all to beat them up about there at all. I'm far from convinced they have the capability to be matrix, Elon would have said so by now.


Custom RF as used on many keys. Tesla is fairly unique in using Bluetooth which basically wraps all that up within the Bluetooth chips, making it harder to access. If it had existed at the time UWB would have been a better option, that what some BMW use and is very capable, it just didn't exist until recently and is only on certain high end iPhones.

Elon hinted at adaptive headlight functions on Twitter a while ago.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1446932789266423815

 

[phonetele226]

I don't think you understand what Beta testing is, by definition it is testing by customers prior to general availability. Tesla can't do beta testing, it would be just testing. They do that as well anyway, we've seen the adverts for testers in the UK.

Let’s not get tied up with semantics. My point is none of us are being paid by Tesla to run their software in effect doing the work their engineers should have done. Assuming the risk of causing an accident from misbehaving software is something nobody should agree to.

 

[gangzoom]

Let’s not get tied up with semantics. My point is none of us are being paid by Tesla to run their software in effect doing the work their engineers should have done.

Have you worked with any kind of AI/NNs? 'Engineers' and CPUs can only do so much, without real life data none of it works.

What is a better way to get real life data than to get it from real life situations that people experience everyday, versus a few artificial situations 'Engineers' can dream up, or very few test runs they can do.

If you want the car to be able to navigate a one way, barely car width unclassified road you drive on every day, the best way to teach the system is to drive that road and feedback to the system how to do it.

As for payment, look up how much AI 'Engineers' charge on an hourly basis. The price/cost of FSD is a fraction of what Tesla is spending on FSD development.

Am not sure Tesla publish the figures, but the FSD program at Tesla must be consuming the vast majority of their R&D budget, and its almost an guarantee Tesla is spending more on FSD development than car development at present.

This is why Elon keeps on putting the price up, FSD Beta tester are literally getting access to $ million tech for a fraction of the cost.

 

[Wol747]

The thing that concerns me - and I've emailed Chuck Cook to get his opinion - is that without knowing the full protocol landscape of the beta testing few conclusions can be made about the relative safety of "FSD" and human driving.
Tesla obviously know the statistics regarding disengagements, collisions, near collisions etc but them saying that "Beta testing shows the cars are XXX% safer than a driver" (I'm surmising) is potentially misleading. There are all sorts of reasons for this - a crash after the driver takes over without sufficient time to avoid it: does that come under beta or driver as an incident is just one of them.
We must be clear - the beta testing is NOT testing autonomous driving: it's testing a driver aid WITH a responsible driver: vastly different.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Elon hinted at adaptive headlight functions on Twitter a while ago.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1446932789266423815

I think this actually shows he doesn’t understand what adaptive headlights are.

 

[GRiLLA]

Let’s not get tied up with semantics. My point is none of us are being paid by Tesla to run their software in effect doing the work their engineers should have done. Assuming the risk of causing an accident from misbehaving software is something nobody should agree to.

Tesla have done, I've seen adverts for several test drivers in the UK who are out of on the roads testing before it comes to us, so I'm not sure I see any point in your comment. Realistically as we aren't submitting detailed test reports what we are doing isn't really testing, just an informal UAT.

 

[DeejUK]

You sound like a techie who has not kept up with the progress made in the machine learning and AI domain in the last few years.

This is accurate

 

[pgkevet]

My impression has always been that Tesla 'learns' to avoid accidents when driven by random idiots as opposed to being 'taught' to drive by expert drivers . If the latter approach was used then using fsd might be a less scary experience.

 

[Lockie]

Hey,

With the latest FSD Beta v10.69 update see here:

2022.16.3.10 Official Tesla Release Notes - Software Updates

Tesla software update 2022.16.3.10 (FSD Beta 10.69) includes Full Self-Driving (Beta) Suspension, FSD Beta v10.69 Release Notes, Full Self-Driving (Beta), Driving Visualization Improvements, Cabin Camera, Autopilot Maximum Speed, Driver Profiles, Navigation Energy Prediction, Regenerative...

www.notateslaapp.com

I've been trying to better understand the differences (if any) between the USA FSD Beta and UK FSD Beta.

The first question I have is, is there anywhere that clearly breakdown the regional differences. What the USA has that we in the U.K. do not?

Many Thanks

 

[Radon9]

The USA has all the functionality of FSD beta, with training data from US road driving. The UK FSD is non-existent, except summon, when it decides to work.

 

[doats1]

Lol

Edit: sorry that response wasn’t helpful. FSD doesn’t exist outside of the US. When FSD beta does branch out, UK is unlikely to be next.

 

[debrooker]

Having spent today in The Hague, Netherlands I haven't a clue how FSD would deal with the kamikazee cyclists, buses and trams - i can imagine America is the easiest nut to crack

 

[GRiLLA]

In the US they have a limited beta of City Streets, we don't have that in the UK.

The autopilot capabilities when driving on motorways/freeways is similar within the constraints of the different legislation in the UK.

 

[M1tch]

The USA has all the functionality of FSD beta, with training data from US road driving. The UK FSD is non-existent, except summon, when it decides to work.

Basically that! Essentially zero difference between FSD and EAP - apart from one will empty your wallet by a significantly larger amount of money!

 

[prabhu]

Let’s not get tied up with semantics. My point is none of us are being paid by Tesla to run their software in effect doing the work their engineers should have done. Assuming the risk of causing an accident from misbehaving software is something nobody should agree to.

We are paid since at £6,800 FSD is the cheapest autonomous vehicle tech one could buy. The next car is a Mercedes EQS with Lidars and other fancy tech at over 6 or 7 digit figures. There is another open source project which is gaining popularity.

 

[prabhu]

Tesla have done, I've seen adverts for several test drivers in the UK who are out of on the roads testing before it comes to us, so I'm not sure I see any point in your comment. Realistically as we aren't submitting detailed test reports what we are doing isn't really testing, just an informal UAT.

With FSD beta, you can press a button to share videos and detailed reports. And then if you read the changelogs, they even explain how they used that dataset to reduce errors.