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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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Spreads... These were all the rage in 2021 and lots of folks made big, big money, anyone remember the 100k club? I think I was in it two times, totally crazy, the SP just kept going up week after week and put-spreads were a money-printer for a while... I was lucky as I never felt comfortable with them and I did my last spread 3rd November, so I didn't get caught in the big reversal...

Looking back at some trades, the SP was in the 600 - 900 range, spreads were 85 - 100 wide and typically giving $5 - all these spreads below were profitable and returned a total of $105k

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So a typical example for me would be, on up mornings, ideally before the MMD, enter BCS side: sell -c235s at $0.68, buy +c245s at $0.26 = $0.42 net / $10 risk = 4.2% return on risk.
That is an interesting way of looking at it.

I usually try $5 spreads to make it easier to roll - to get the same $10 risk you can sell double the number of contracts (actually a little more risk for more premium in terms of probability).

The other way I've seen people determine the strike is by looking at delta (which I've discussed earlier as probability of SP reaching the strike).

In your example of -235/+245 we get delta of 8% and 3% for a net of 5% probability. Interestingly enough 5% probability (0.05 delta) is for strike 240, which has a premium of $0.42 !

ps : Options are so well designed, there is no arbitrage in terms of risk/premium !
 
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Spreads... These were all the rage in 2021 and lots of folks made big, big money, anyone remember the 100k club?
Yes, I remember it well, and the subsequent warnings/problems that came with the dropping SP throughout 2022. I’m still learning and working into the spreads slowly, $10k at a time, mostly ICs, but often starting with BPS first. Last week I actually had 30x $10 spreads, so $30,000 at risk. I was quite nervous, so I doubt that I will ever even get to the $10k/wk club, let alone the $100k/wk club. I don’t need or value that kind of money and the stress/risks that come with it. However, if I can make $1k-$2k/wk, that will be more than enough, hence the attempt to reduce risks with 1-2 DTE sales. In a normal week, I might roll the losing side, but definitely not this week. Too much risk with market reaction to P/D.
 
That is an interesting way of looking at it.

I usually try $5 spreads to make it easier to roll - to get the same $10 risk you can sell double the number of contracts (actually a little more risk for more premium in terms of probability).

The other way I've seen people determine the strike is by looking at delta (which I've discussed earlier as probability of SP reaching the strike).

In your example of -235/+245 we get delta of 8% and 3% for a net of 5% probability. Interestingly enough 5% probability (0.05 delta) is for strike 240, which has a premium of $0.42 !

ps : Options are so well designed, there is no arbitrage in terms of risk/premium !
not-advice

Spread width is an interesting topic to me. There are pluses and minuses to all of the choices.

The risk with a $5 wide spread is that the position moves from max gain to max loss over a $5 move in the share price. Example - a -185p/+180p spread will be a max gain with share price >185 at expiration. It is a max loss at share price <180.

As long as you have the discipline around position size so you don't use all of that leverage to open more spreads, then a $5 wide spread can be a very good choice.

If that were a -185p/+135p ($50 wide spread, $150 wide in pre-split $$), then max gain at 185 and max loss doesn't arrive until a share price of 135.

More importantly though, that $50 wide spread has a fairly wide range in which it can be rolled effectively. For some modest share price range when the position goes ITM, you will still be able to roll the spread with a result that is very similar to a CSP. Probably $10 ITM and lower. That gives you more room to maneuver.

The $5 wide spread really needs to be rolled, or the loss taken, before it even gets touched.


Spreads really, really don't behave like a 1 legged position. Max losses are easily reached, and if you're using position sizes that are too large, blowing up your account is readily achievable.


To start, one rather extreme way of looking at (example) a CSP is that it is a spread using a $0 strike put as the insurance leg. I.e. - a 185 csp could also be viewed as a -185p/+0p spread. I realize that's a wonky way of thinking about it
 
not-advice

Spread width is an interesting topic to me. There are pluses and minuses to all of the choices.

The risk with a $5 wide spread is that the position moves from max gain to max loss over a $5 move in the share price. Example - a -185p/+180p spread will be a max gain with share price >185 at expiration. It is a max loss at share price <180.

...

The $5 wide spread really needs to be rolled, or the loss taken, before it even gets touched.

...

... and there you have it folks, it's exactly what happened to my $5 spread Friday, it moved so fast that by the time I reacted it wasn't worth sticking my neck out further, decide to take the loss instead of rolling wider or rolling out 3 months; I'd rather work hard to earn that back than hope for the best. For me it's about optimizing position size to not use all my leverage. Thanks @adiggs for calling out for all this subtle difference.
 
Beat of Tesla IR published estimate, miss versus mean of factset estimates or Troys #

Not really a big enough difference no matter which estimate you use to be significant though.
I wonder what will SP do tomorrow. The SP movement will show whether Friday was just a retail FOMO or big investment. If it is mostly retail/trader FOMO, then we will see a sell the news. Otherwise may be a small drop or flat.
 
Beat of Tesla IR published estimate, miss versus mean of factset estimates or Troys #

Not really a big enough difference no matter which estimate you use to be significant though.

Troy posted on the 28th that delivery consensus was 420k. It is really a bunch of made up numbers. Just now was the first time I heard that consensus was 432k units and I thought we had a beat 😡. I might roll my $215 and $220 covered calls sideways to the 14th in case we go down. I have a few puts that I bought but not many. How can we meet the delivery consensus in Q2 now that the Model 3 SR is not going to qualify for the full EV incentive?

Screenshot_20230402-130217.png



Beat, miss, meet, which in is it? Lol
 
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Troy posted on the 28th that delivery consensus was 420k. It is really a bunch of made up numbers. Just now was the first time I heard that consensus was 432k units and I thought we had a beat 😡. I might roll my $215 and $220 covered calls sideways to the 14th in case we go down. I have a few puts that I bought but not many. How can we meet the delivery consensus in Q2 now that the Model 3 SR is not going to qualify for the full EV incentive?

View attachment 924187


Beat, miss, meet, which in is it? Lol

I've never seen as many "@CommunityNotes" requests on Twitter as to the Tweet by Reuters pointing to that article.

 
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I wonder what will SP do tomorrow. The SP movement will show whether Friday was just a retail FOMO or big investment. If it is mostly retail/trader FOMO, then we will see a sell the news. Otherwise may be a small drop or flat.
I confess to having bought puts. Tired of having profits wiped out every ‘event day’. Of course, still have calls with longer durations although still short term. Guess stock being flat for the next week would really suck for me.

Think market overall might be interested in consolidating a bit as well.
 
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Troy posted on the 28th that delivery consensus was 420k. It is really a bunch of made up numbers. Just now was the first time I heard that consensus was 432k units and I thought we had a beat 😡. I might roll my $215 and $220 covered calls sideways to the 14th in case we go down. I have a few puts that I bought but not many. How can we meet the delivery consensus in Q2 now that the Model 3 SR is not going to qualify for the full EV incentive?

View attachment 924187


Beat, miss, meet, which in is it? Lol
Well a beat of Tesla compiled consensus, which filters out the super-high estimations put forward by the idiots like Gordon Johnson, purely to inflate the expectations...

Of course it's all nonsense, beat, miss, how are these number derived based on what?

I think it's very neutral, good for my -200 straddles, I'd say, who knows, maybe as it's growth in the current environment will be taken positively...??
 
Tweet vs Article title. Really - Reuters is now a click-bait website ?

View attachment 924210

View attachment 924211

They also changed the headline. This was the original - Tesla misses delivery estimates as weak economy overshadows price cuts. And I notice they changed "missed estimates for first-quarter deliveries as a bleak economic outlook and rising competition" to "missed estimates for first-quarter deliveries as rising competition and a bleak economic outlook" to try to emphasis "rising competition". Weak Reuters, weak.
 
Well a beat of Tesla compiled consensus, which filters out the super-high estimations put forward by the idiots like Gordon Johnson, purely to inflate the expectations...

Of course it's all nonsense, beat, miss, how are these number derived based on what?

I think it's very neutral, good for my -200 straddles, I'd say, who knows, maybe as it's growth in the current environment will be taken positively...??

It should be taken positively; Q1 is a really hard quarter for automakers. Also, it seems like many people feel that we had a beat:

Screenshot_20230402-152003.png

Screenshot_20230402-140851.png
 
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It should be taken positively; Q1 is a really hard quarter for automakers. Also, it seems like many people feel that we had a beat:

View attachment 924241
View attachment 924242
Apparently Factset mean was higher. So have to see what happens Monday. Nasdaq futures are down a bit.

According to a mean of estimates, compiled by FactSet as of Friday, Wall Street was expecting Tesla to report deliveries around 432,000 vehicles for the quarter. Estimates included in the FactSet analysis ranged from 410,000 to 451,000 deliveries expected.​
 
Rolled 210 4/21 CC to 235 6/17 for pennies (shares I don’t want to lose).
Sold 4/6 225 CC for 1.75 (cost base 220 for those 100 shares).
Wow. Didn't expect to be able to close the last one for more than 80% gain.
Just did for 0.30. Will reopen again if we head back up.
Probably combination of IV crush, short week and lower SP at open.
 
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200 holds quite well until in this macro friendly environment, Could have been pushed well under 200. But although I predicted end 2022 that coming 3 quarters Production will ever be higher then deliveries, due to mega ramp on one side and getting away from EOQ-rush on the other, the market still does not get it, because logic and exponential growth is not understood amongst stock analysts. While writing we duck under 200 and are going down even harder.
(On $200 holding I STO -p192.5 4/6 (against closing -p162.5))
 
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