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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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That's good info as well.

My immediate reaction is that I might need to try out a few of these. I like the ironfly idea as well to keep the margin / risk defined. If one had a strong opinion about the closing price for next week, then the straddle could be positioned at that strike. I invariably start turning the straddle into a narrow strangle. Like $10 or $20 OTM on each side. And then the trade starts turning into something different.

Still....
The narrow strangle with a long put and long call to provide a bottom for margin calculations basically is a narrow Iron Condor, correct? So in @Yoona 's example below, if we do an Iron fly or narrow strangle or Iron condor - here is the risk vs gain


short strangle -p1040/-c1040
Maximum risk: infinite (on upside)
Maximum return: $37,120.00 (at TSLA$1,040.01)
Max return on risk: N/A
Breakevens at expiry: $1077.12, $1002.87
Probability of profit: 71.2%

Iron fly would be +p940/-p1040/-c1040/-c1140
Maximum risk: $6,631.00 (at TSLA$940.00)
Maximum return: $3,369.00 (at TSLA$1,040.00)
Max return on risk: 50.8% (6181% ann.)
Breakevens at expiry: $1073.70, $1006.30
Probability of profit: 66.5%

Narrow strangle would be -p1020/-c1060
Maximum risk: infinite (on upside)
Maximum return: $2,130.00 (at TSLA$1,020.00)
Max return on risk: N/A
Breakevens at expiry: $1081.29, $998.70
Probability of profit: 76.3%

Narrow Iron condor +p920/-p1020/-c1060/-c1160
Maximum risk: $8,147.00 (at TSLA$920.00)
Maximum return: $1,853.00 (at TSLA$1,020.00)
Max return on risk: 22.7% (2767% ann.)
Breakevens at expiry: $1078.55, $1001.45
Probability of profit: 72.9%

I think an Iron Fly or a narrow Iron condor might be worth trying with a small position. I am closing out all my BPSs tomorrow morning - they are already at around 80% - so I am open to try something new with a small position for Friday expiration
 
Fascinating analysis! I wish we could recruit that guy to join our forum for daily updates.

Edit: found this on his twitter feed, now I understand gamma squeezes:

View attachment 726456
IMO this is a must watch for everyone in this thread. And our contracts are nothing. He mentions 15000 call contracts being sold at a time.
 
Tell me if what I am thinking of doing makes sense

I had 75 BCS -c1100/+c1200 for 10/29 this am which were in trouble as the stock spiked. I panicked a little, and rolled them out to -C1150/+c1200 for 11/12 at the worst possible time when the stock was at its peak at a debit. I realized later that I should have been rolling up the +c1200 to 1250 or higher, but didnt think it through at that time.
Anyways, later when the stock dropped, I closed out the -C1150 for a small loss.

Now I still have 75 +c1200 for 11/12 which are showing a big loss as the stock dropped further after that. If I simply close them out tomorrow, I will probably have a large loss enough to wipe out last few weeks of gains.

So I am thinking to converting this to a call debit spread. I have already spent the money on purchasing the +c1200, why not add short calls at -c1250 or so? I entered the numbers in Fidelity margin calculator and it does not seem to affect my margin as I already have the long calls.

Is there a better strategy to try? I am only trying to minimize my losses on the long calls at this point.
Posting an update on what I ended up doing
Initially, I was thinking of closing out half of the BCS and take the loss on it - but after selling 10 I realized that this is a wash sale - I cannot use these losses to offset gains. I also cannot figure out which transaction is triggering this or which transaction has its cost basis adjusted. These were rolled over from the long call leg of the previous BCS for 10/29 to 11/12, but the ones from 10/29 show a profit. Anyways, will call Fidelity tomorrow to figure out.

Since I won't be able to use the losses, I decided to hold them longer hoping for a price increase in the SP from now till end of next week. I am pretty much writing off all the cost of these for now - if SP goes up, great. If not, I will just eat the losses.
I did convert some of them to debit call spread by selling -c1250 to pair them with. I will let you know how that trade goes.

I don’t have any experience with call debit spreads, but the googling I did seems like an OK way to get back a little premium with -1250c since your +1200c is already a sunk cost. If we stay below 1200, you at least get the -1250c premium. If we’re between 1200-1250, your -1250c premium is yours to keep and the 1200c has improved. Never thought about this before. Very interesting. Thanks for the direction.

Question. Why didn’t you close the -1150c and +1200c as a multileg? Were you planning on doing this debit call spread? Or hoping for another sharp spike up?

Thanks.
It was a mistake on my part. I was trying to do this on the phone while going in between meetings at work. I closed the short leg first at market order to ensure no issues with margin. Then I placed the order to sell off the long leg with a limit price on low end. But at that time the stock was moving so fast that one didn't go through. By the time I realized that, it was too late and the price had changed a lot.
NOT-ADVICE

I have no particular opinion on the specific trade you're describing. What I do have is an observation - when rolling or otherwise managing a position, I want to enter a new position that I would have entered without the roll, or a position that I consider to be enough better than the one I'm leaving that it's an upgrade. There has to be something about the new position I like better.

So one thought about this particular position - do you have any experience with call debit spreads?

On the face of it, it looks like a great idea. You're already in for the long calls. Are they already max losses, so the premium from the new short calls are a straight offset? Would you be better off just eating that last loss and starting over with strategies you already have experience with?


And I guess a last idea - whatever you do with this position - this sounds like a great trade to setup at small scale and get some experience with this as a management technique. I kind of like the idea of selling options 2x against a single set of long options :) Whether its actually a GOOD idea or not - I dunno.


NOT-ADVICE

I've thought about rolling and other management strategies. The observation I have for you is that your baseline recovery plan is to go back to doing what you've been doing and that's been working well for you. How many previous weeks (months!?!) did you lose? You might find that there isn't anything to recover from - you've just had a loss that WILL come around now and then. If the loss is the last month of premiums, then maybe don't do anything different. Learn what you can from this time, and don't try to dig yourself out rapidly.

After all - the first rule of holes; when you find yourself in one, stop digging.

A question that I ask myself regularly when contemplating a trade, as I am also into the land of income rather than accumulation; is this consistent with dividend like income? When I ask myself that question, it's invariably because I already knew the answer, and I stop doing what I was thinking about doing :)


The aggressive cc might be exactly the right play for you. But do it because it fits within the larger strategy - not because you need something higher risk / higher reward. I've done the higher risk / higher reward thing in one of my retirement accounts, and succeeded in concentrating most of my larger losses in that account. (No tears though - it's also now the biggest account; just that it COULD have been even bigger).


I do have a thought as well about compounding the cash being used on spreads. The closer we are to using all of the cash on spreads, the more that we do not want to compound. The problem with putting all the new cash to work in a larger and larger spread count (position size), is that one bad week / one max loss, and you just wiped yourself out (except for the premium). This is .. bad.
This is good advice (not advice)! I have done debit call spreads before, but only with longer DTE calls. Usually closed them at 50% max profit which was reasonable strategy during an uptrend. I highly doubt these are going to be that successful this time in the 2 weeks to expiry.

I am staying away from BCS for now, the only 2 times so far after starting the spreads strategy I ran into loss was both with BCS. In worst case scenario - total loss on these long calls - I am losing about 4 weeks of gains. I probably close out next week and take whatever recovery I can, so hopefully limit to about 2 weeks of lost gains. My BPSs this week have done very well, so not too badly off.
 
Just thought I would touch base with all my fellow option sellers. Has anyone else has a pretty rough week in terms of contract rolling? I probably should of just bought everything back when we broke 1000 but my stubbornness told me to roll instead since usually in these situations it is time to be selling calls not buying. As a result of my rolling I ended up paying a pretty heavy cost to roll my strikes up without moving my expirations further out.

Just wanted to see if anyone else is in the same boat and what your plays are?

I sold a few far OTM Puts which helped soften the blow, but I'm still down about 4% of my entire portfolio rolling options lol. Will probably take me months to get that back selling options.
I had sold calls on almost all my shares, in and out of IRAs last Friday. I think I started the week with cc's at 980,990,1000,1050.

I rolled about half of them so far, always for a little credit to
Nov 5 $1070
Nov 12 $1040
Nov 26 $1050
Dec 3 $1100
Dec 17 $1110
Mar 18 2022, $1300

I still have some $990s and $1000s to roll, hoping for that dip by Friday! And I'm not even mentioning the single Dec 17 $850 that was rolled last month!

Some of the rolls might be ok, others might need more adjustments. But they buy more time to hope for a better way out.
 
Please criticize my strategy.

this is my first week in option trading and opening very very small positions just to try to adjust if the stock price move against me. I’m not even at 0.1% of my margin.

this morning I sold a CC
TSLA211126C1325
CALL-100TSLA'21 26NV@1325

Yesterday I sold a Put
TSLA211217P705
PUT -100 TSLA'21 DC@705

So I opened a wide strangle

are the legs too close?
if the stock starts moving against me on one side should I sell one leg and buy is back closer to take a net credit?

I am just getting my feet wet and took 2 contracts on both side, didn’t not want to sell 20 contracts for my first try of trial and error trying to manage the stress of opti trading.
feel free to criticize and I prove my reasoning
I like Puts, because if the stock drops below 700, you can either roll down and out for small credit (or break even), or just keep selling 700s for great credit (a month out and rolling when there is still a week until expiration so that the time value keeps the shares from getting assigned) until the SP recovers (I was rolling 10x 700s for several months earlier this year with the stock getting into the 500s and making $15k/month). YOU JUST HAVE TO ROLL THEM WHILE THERE IS STILL TIME VALUE LEFT, which KEEPS THEM FROM GETTING ASSIGNED IF THEY ARE IN THE MONEY. That is why monthly Puts are nice. Calls are more dangerous, because if we are correct that TSLA will climb to 3000 or higher, once you get ITM on the CC, if you can't roll to a higher strike fast enough, you might never dig yourself out. Please make sure you really understand the difference between Puts and Calls in what I wrote with a stock like TSLA that probably won't stay below 700 for ever, but could take off and never come back down (full self driving, stock splits, more factories, solar, energy, etc., etc). The calls can give unlimited losses unless you are covering those calls with your shares, which will get called away at what ever strike you eventually get "stuck" at, but that will prevent a cash loss. I like your Put strike a lot. I'm not able to comment on your Call.
 
IMO this is a must watch for everyone in this thread. And our contracts are nothing. He mentions 15000 call contracts being sold at a time.
Yeah - I'm still a bit short of those size orders.

but after selling 10 I realized that this is a wash sale - I cannot use these losses to offset gains. I
Maybe I have a big misunderstanding about wash sales. My understanding is that the loss in the wash sale just gets rolled forward into the replacement position (there has to be one in a wash sale). So it'll be a tax issue when the wash sale happens at the end of the year, but at this point in the year, there should be plenty of time for the 30 day clock to run out.

Am I not understanding correctly?

Some of the rolls might be ok, others might need more adjustments. But they buy more time to hope for a better way out.
One of the ways I evaluate rolls on cc is I ask myself - would I rather be assigned on the current position, or be assigned at the new position? Usually I like the new position better than the old, but its also a time to think about the opportunity cost of still having the share(s) rather than the cash.
 
I like Puts, because if the stock drops below 700, you can either roll down and out for small credit (or break even), or just keep selling 700s for great credit (a month out and rolling when there is still a week until expiration so that the time value keeps the shares from getting assigned) until the SP recovers (I was rolling 10x 700s for several months earlier this year with the stock getting into the 500s and making $15k/month). YOU JUST HAVE TO ROLL THEM WHILE THERE IS STILL TIME VALUE LEFT, which KEEPS THEM FROM GETTING ASSIGNED IF THEY ARE IN THE MONEY. That is why monthly Puts are nice. Calls are more dangerous, because if we are correct that TSLA will climb to 3000 or higher, once you get ITM on the CC, if you can't roll to a higher strike fast enough, you might never dig yourself out. Please make sure you really understand the difference between Puts and Calls in what I wrote with a stock like TSLA that probably won't stay below 700 for ever, but could take off and never come back down (full self driving, stock splits, more factories, solar, energy, etc., etc). The calls can give unlimited losses unless you are covering those calls with your shares, which will get called away at what ever strike you eventually get "stuck" at, but that will prevent a cash loss. I like your Put strike a lot. I'm not able to comment on your Call.
seann-william-scott-yes.gif
 
NOT-ADVICE!!
like - really.


I've been thinking about spread width and position sizing, and I've got some examples that I want to work using the option chain at this moment, with the share price at $1047. For some reason (it was a good one at the time) I'll pretend that we've sold a range of different positions all keyed on the 1100 strike put ($50 ITM right now); ugh! Let's also assume a $1M cash pile so this works as well in a retirement account as a brokerage. The specific purpose of this chosen strike is to mimic a really bad / deep ITM circumstance. Working these same numbers using a 1050 or 1000 strike put will be a LOT friendlier (so roll early!?!)


Cash Secured Put.
The 1100 strike will tie up $110k per contract, so we can sell 9 of these. We did sell 9 of these and they are now trading at 57.75 (this week) or 71.00 (next week). For this week expiration we're lined up for a 5775*9 = ~$54k loss - about 5%

Clearly this is bad - we can roll this week CSP to 1090 next week for $65 for a net credit of 7.35 and a $10 improvement in the strike. $50 ITM and we can add 1 week while improving the strike $10 (pretty awesome really).

As a bonus we retain the other management choices (the $200 wide, $100 wide, and $50 wide put spreads discussed next).


$200 wide put spread
As a starting point, we have the 900/1100 put spread expiring this week. That spread is trading at 57.75 - 1.20 = 56.55. At $20k per spread we could have sold 50 of these and we're looking at a 5665*50 = $56k*5 = $280k or so loss or around 28%.

To roll to next week we need a 56.55 credit. Next week's 900/1100 is 71 - 8.30 = 63.30. The 890/1090 is 63 - 7.70 = 55.30. A small net debit for the $10 strike improvement, or a reasonably large net credit while keeping the strikes unchanged.

Even on a $200 wide spread, getting 1/4th of the way ITM and our roll options are already getting bad, but aren't really bad. There is a credit or a strike improvement on offer.


$100 put spread
As a starting point we have the 1000/1100 put spread expiring this week. This sounds bad already! It is trading at 57.75 - 5.10 = 52.65. At $10k per spread we could have sold 100 of them (and we did). We have a $5265 * 100 = $526k loss we're looking at.

EDIT: I did this roll logic badly / wrongly. I've edited to distinguish between incremental credits and unrealized losses.
We can roll this spread to next week. The 1000/1100 is trading at 71 - 20.60 = 50.40 and the current week position is trading at 52.65. We sold 100 of these so we're looking at a 2.40 or $24k realized loss in order to delay the $500k loss that is unrealized as yet. We paid $24k for some incremental time and hoping for the share price to go up - preferably above that $1100 strike we sold.

We can get a net credit with the 1010/1110 = 79 - 23.40 = 55.60. We pick up a $3 credit or $30k (yay!) while rolling our $500k unrealized loss out a week. The extra $30k is nice, but we also worsened our position by $10. Now we need the 1110 strike to go OTM. We're also $10 further ITM with this roll. The point is that we're either paying a net debit or we're rolling to a worse strike - the position is at the midpoint, and will be getting worse using a 1 week roll. It might be that a 2 week roll will get us into the small net credit, but I suspect that it won't make a difference.


$50 put spread.
I'm not going to do the math - this would be the 1050/1100 and is pretty much all ITM, so about a $50 loss on a $50 wide spread; around $1M loss on $1M at risk. The roll option is going to be particularly bad and with the 'narrow' spread width there won't be more capital to add to improve the position. In this case you'd definitely want to have used a fraction of your margin (25%?) in order to have management choices from here. Including take the big loss (hopefully sooner than the long put going ITM) as you reduced the 100% loss to $250k by only using 1/4th of your available cash. You'll be able to run the same size position next week.


BUT. That $200 wide spread has an additional management approach available. We could cut that spread size in half and double the contracts ($100 wide spread with 100 contracts). We'll need to beat 56.55 but we have 2x the contracts to do so. So the 940/1040 is around $23 ($46). The 950/1050 is around 39-12 = $27 ($54). Almost enough - so the 960/1060 = 44-13 = 31, or $62. About a $6 credit and a $40 improvement in the strike.

Similar idea but moving down to a $50 wide spread (4x the contracts at 1/4th of the spread size).
25% loss at this moment (56.55/200). Closing right now will cost us $56.56 (I didn't do the math on this one - I'd expect a further strike improvement - maybe to the 1010 range, or about 1/2 of the first improvement).

The $100 wide spread also has this 1/2 strike / double contracts approach available but it won't be as good as we're already starting 50% ITM.

The $50 wide spread doesn't have this option available (you could drop to a $25 wide spread with another 2x the contracts...).


This is also about position sizing. How much of that $1M do we put into these positions? I did the math here assuming its all in the position. That doesn't strike me as awfully risky with the cash secured puts. They can be rolled ~forever (and I have rolled a deep ITM one of these for 5 months). None of the spreads can be rolled ~forever unless you can roll for at least a net credit, and preferably a net credit plus a strike improvement. As long as there is a strike improvement and a net credit (with no reduction in spread size), then they actually can be rolled forever The problem is that the range in which the spread can be rolled effectively is a LOT smaller than the range in which the CSP can be rolled effectively ($50 ITM vs $200 ITM from past experience with deep ITM cash secured puts - it's highly dependent on the share price and on IV).

Do we use 1/4th of the available margin for that $50 wide spread? That's 50 contracts instead of 200 - I don't know where that'll fall relative to a cash secured put, and is something to evaluate. Do we use 1/2 of the margin for the $200 wide spread? I don't know what a somewhat aggressive margin usage will be, and I know that there is all sorts of position sizing stuff that's been written. Maybe somebody has a good book for us to read on this topic :)

This also points to the closest to ADVICE I have here - if you're rolling a spread for time, take the maximum strike improvement you can get (subject to the net credit, or at least a really small net debit). A week or a month of no income is trivial next to the sorts of large losses that are available via spreads.

And think about what a 50% or 100% loss on these spread positions will do to your account.
Holy Sh*t. I finally see the light regarding wide spreads, mainly because of something you have said earlier, and that is that wide spreads behave more like naked Puts. What do I know about naked Puts - you can be ITM and basically roll the same strike forever as long as there is enough time value and cost to prevent the owner from assigning the shares. It doesn't work with $50 spreads, because the long leg is too expensive. But with really wide spreads, the long leg is just there for margin management. It is so cheap, that I don't care what I sold the long leg that I'm closing for.

Example of $50 vs $200 wide spread:
1050/1000 - to Close for this week costs $20, and the same strike next week gets you $20. Gain = 0
1050/850 - to close this week costs $25.2, and the same strike next weeks earns you $44.55-6.65 = $37.9. Gain $22.7!!!!

Wow. Ok. I need more time to look at this more closely, but I think a small light bulb just went off in my thick skull.

Edit: I won't sell 1050/850 BPSs, just using those numbers. But if sold 800/600 and they went ITM, I wouldn't care. Probably roll the 800/600 for ever.
 
Last edited:
something to think about after-hours...

interesting meeting with my bank today; they offered to increase my margin room by 75% if i give them half my cash; in return, i will receive "preferential institutional 1% margin rate compared to market 4%"

for example, if my trading acct is $2000, bank is suggesting to split it into 2 accts:
- TA (my existing trading acct) $1000
- BMA (new bank-managed acct) $1000

BMA will be managed by bank on their funds or safe growth investments (aka GIC, dividends, etc) or equity funds, whatever i want

TA will have new $750 margin aka nearly-free line of credit; new total size $1750; the collateral of the LOC is BMA

therefore, new grand total playroom = $2750 (instead of the existing $2000)
- TA $1750
- BMA $1000

disadvantage:
- TA size is reduced from $2000 to $1750 (ie less options capital, but only by 12.5% really)
- BMA is growing dramatically less (ie 6% compounding annual growth?) compared to TA's weekly 1%

advantage:
- i have investment diversification and risk spread out
- BMA will compound annually as super passive income
- if i blow up TA on black swans, i have BMA as backup annual income and i won't be the next McDonald's cashier

what would you do... assume options trading is your fulltime dayjob
-
accept? click love💛
- decline? click funny 😄
- not sure? that's OK!
 
Maybe I have a big misunderstanding about wash sales. My understanding is that the loss in the wash sale just gets rolled forward into the replacement position (there has to be one in a wash sale). So it'll be a tax issue when the wash sale happens at the end of the year, but at this point in the year, there should be plenty of time for the 30 day clock to run out.

Am I not understanding correctly?
I am thoroughly confused about this as well. My understanding is that this has to be in essentially the same security. Here is the info on google (Schwab.com)

Key Points​

  • The wash-sale rule was designed to discourage people from selling securities at a loss simply to claim a tax benefit.
  • A wash sale occurs when you sell a security at a loss and then purchase that same security or “substantially identical” securities within 30 days (before or after the sale date).
  • If you end up being affected by the wash-sale rule, your loss will be disallowed and added to the cost basis of the securities you repurchased.
After having a small wash sale related "disallowed loss" earlier in the year, I have been very careful not to buy and sell and buy again the same option in any of my accounts. For the IRA accounts, I have been only trading options ending in '0' and in the taxable account ending in '5' so that I am not repeating any of them by mistake.

In the current case, I definitely did not buy-sell-buy the Nov 12 c1200. But, since I rolled over the Oct 29 c1200 to Nov 12 c1200 I think it is being considered as substantially identical. But, the Oct 29 c1200 was actually at a profit when I rolled it out 2-weeks, so I cannot figure out how this is a wash sale. The cost basis seems fine as well. But here is how the transactions are shown in the "Tax Info Year to date" tab. The $ column are proceeds, cost basis and short term gain/loss

Screen Shot 2021-10-27 at 8.48.02 PM.png


I will try and call Fidelity tomorrow, but I doubt they will be much help. The answer will likely be that they cannot provide tax advice.
 
I have never seen Fidelity show a wash sale on options. If they cost vastly different amounts, with different strikes or expiration, by definition, they can't be essentially the same security. If they were, they would cost the same.
 
something to think about after-hours...

interesting meeting with my bank today; they offered to increase my margin room by 75% if i give them half my cash; in return, i will receive "preferential institutional 1% margin rate compared to market 4%"

what would you do... assume options trading is your fulltime dayjob
-
accept? click love💛
- decline? click funny😄
- not sure? that's OK!
Options trading is not my full time job.

But I do something very similar myself only the second investment account is my IRA.

On the IRA I keep stable long term, retirement class investments in a sort-of mixed portfolio of stocks I pick fairly carefully. If you want safety, BRK is about as solid as you can get and has done way better than any bank managed account for years. There are some other good stocks I trust as well.

My currently much smaller trading account is my options trading account. Right now it is quite small compared to my other account, but it’s been growing fast.

I’d far rather manage all of my money and have a higher margin rate than only manage half of it.
 
I have never seen Fidelity show a wash sale on options. If they cost vastly different amounts, with different strikes or expiration, by definition, they can't be essentially the same security. If they were, they would cost the same.
I've seen wash sales on options at E*TRADE, but I think it was just because a spread trade I placed was executed in multiple batches with a different cost split for each batch. And then when I closed things I split it and closed over two days. In the end it doesn't matter as the positions were all closed during the tax year, so it just shows a weird cost basis on them. But when totaled up in works out.
 
no pressure but care to share what you did to deal with the sub-$900 CC's? Thanks.
Unfortunately, I’m still “holding” my -c800s. Not enough money to buyback and roll. I can’t remember, but probably sold them initially for $3-5/sh and they are now $250 or so. Yesterday, I looked at rolls and I couldn’t even get a $5 improvement in strike. Not worth the effort. This is exactly why selling options works until it doesn’t. Thankfully, these are CCs and not spreads. I fully expect to “sell” shares on Saturday and then start selling CSPs on Monday, only $250 behind.:mad::mad: If I’m lucky (or better at trading than this month), I’ll somehow manage to get $20/sh/wk selling puts. Damn, and I was so close to my share target last month.
 
Im new to selling option, so forgive my ignorance.
Been thinking about ways to take advantage of IV

IV play - Sell both put and call at the money and same expiry
Nov 5 $1,040 put 40.00 call 38.00

Stock Loss break even point at $962
Stock Gain break even point at $1,118

What if stock 1,100? - 1040 = 60 - 38 = (22) call lost + 40 put sold gain = 18.00 gain
What if stock 1,000? Put price sold cancel out - gain sold call 38 = 38.00 gain
What if stock flat 1040 78.00 gain
You may want to play with this options calculator to experiment and see how much you have to lose if the stock goes above 1,100 or below 960. TSLA can drop fast like an elevator cut loose or rocket up. A spread with options ATM that expires next week is way too much risk for me.
Just one week ago it was in the 860s. These numbers need to also be a part of your range, especially if you are shooting for a Nov 5 expiration.

In your math it shows only a narrow range and only gains. To put yourself in realistic situations, you will mentally want to prepare for your losses, not just reduced gains.

The "Probability of profit" the options calculator notes for the put is 32.1%. The call is 31.9%. Meaning these %s indicate the probability your options will expire within your desired range. The probability of success is stacked against you here, hence why a lot of the option plays people post have greater distance from the share price or choose to have them expire this week.

I only comment because in my first option play, I did a similar play with a CC on a Thursday for the next week. Sure enough, TSLA rocketed up, broke through the resistance, and had green days Thursday, Friday, Monday, and my $700 profit turned into a $2200 loss. It becomes very expensive to buy back your options once they are deep ITM (in the money).

Play around with this options calculator to see what could happen:
 
Unfortunately, I’m still “holding” my -c800s. Not enough money to buyback and roll. I can’t remember, but probably sold them initially for $3-5/sh and they are now $250 or so. Yesterday, I looked at rolls and I couldn’t even get a $5 improvement in strike. Not worth the effort. This is exactly why selling options works until it doesn’t. Thankfully, these are CCs and not spreads. I fully expect to “sell” shares on Saturday and then start selling CSPs on Monday, only $250 behind.:mad::mad: If I’m lucky (or better at trading than this month), I’ll somehow manage to get $20/sh/wk selling puts. Damn, and I was so close to my share target last month.
Why not continue rolling the 800s for credit at the same strike? Do you not see a decent likelihood of stock coming close to 800s near term?
 
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something to think about after-hours...

interesting meeting with my bank today; they offered to increase my margin room by 75% if i give them half my cash; in return, i will receive "preferential institutional 1% margin rate compared to market 4%"

for example, if my trading acct is $2000, bank is suggesting to split it into 2 accts:
- TA (my existing trading acct) $1000
- BMA (new bank-managed acct) $1000

BMA will be managed by bank on their funds or safe growth investments (aka GIC, dividends, etc) or equity funds, whatever i want

TA will have new $750 margin aka nearly-free line of credit; new total size $1750; the collateral of the LOC is BMA

therefore, new grand total playroom = $2750 (instead of the existing $2000)
- TA $1750
- BMA $1000

disadvantage:
- TA size is reduced from $2000 to $1750 (ie less options capital, but only by 12.5% really)
- BMA is growing dramatically less (ie 6% compounding annual growth?) compared to TA's weekly 1%

advantage:
- i have investment diversification and risk spread out
- BMA will compound annually as super passive income
- if i blow up TA on black swans, i have BMA as backup annual income and i won't be the next McDonald's cashier

what would you do... assume options trading is your fulltime dayjob
-
accept? click love💛
- decline? click funny😄
- not sure? that's OK!

Not sure the details of how much margin you have currently, but I think you double-counted the BMA collateral into your playroom (for trading options only?). To me, it looks like your total playroom is only $1750.

So being short 12.5% capital (~$250), means you're missing out on the 50% gains (annualized) off of that $250 (so about $125), which would represent 12.5% of the BMA. 12.5% vs. 6% .... yeah, definitely a crack pipe!
 
something to think about after-hours...

interesting meeting with my bank today; they offered to increase my margin room by 75% if i give them half my cash; in return, i will receive "preferential institutional 1% margin rate compared to market 4%"
Do you have any margin loan right now? If you're just using margin as backing for sold options, then you're not paying any interest.. so the margin rate is sort of meaningless.

I gotta agree with @Ogre that I rather manage all my money myself.. if you want to diversify, then do it yourself. This is why I run a small company on the side, so I am registered as an entrepreneur at my country, and I can pay the least amount of pension funds possible, and manage the rest myself (instead of giving over 20% of my taxable income to some state managed pension fund..)
 
something to think about after-hours...

interesting meeting with my bank today; they offered to increase my margin room by 75% if i give them half my cash; in return, i will receive "preferential institutional 1% margin rate compared to market 4%"

for example, if my trading acct is $2000, bank is suggesting to split it into 2 accts:
- TA (my existing trading acct) $1000
- BMA (new bank-managed acct) $1000

BMA will be managed by bank on their funds or safe growth investments (aka GIC, dividends, etc) or equity funds, whatever i want

TA will have new $750 margin aka nearly-free line of credit; new total size $1750; the collateral of the LOC is BMA

therefore, new grand total playroom = $2750 (instead of the existing $2000)
- TA $1750
- BMA $1000

disadvantage:
- TA size is reduced from $2000 to $1750 (ie less options capital, but only by 12.5% really)
- BMA is growing dramatically less (ie 6% compounding annual growth?) compared to TA's weekly 1%

advantage:
- i have investment diversification and risk spread out
- BMA will compound annually as super passive income
- if i blow up TA on black swans, i have BMA as backup annual income and i won't be the next McDonald's cashier

what would you do... assume options trading is your fulltime dayjob
-
accept? click love💛
- decline? click funny😄
- not sure? that's OK!

Sounds like an interesting option.

The margin rate is appealing; alongside the increase margin %.

If you were keeping 50% in cash anyways, then the loss in immediately deployable capital is not substantial.

Are they using “bankers acceptance” rates for your margin ?

Is this through private baking at one of the major Canadian banks ? Please feel free to post the bank here, or via DM if you are not comfortable posting in the thread. I too have been exploring some banking relationships that provide more flexibility, and have had some interesting learnings along the way.
 
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