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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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Do you guys think it's likely we break over $1200 next week? I'd say it's hard to imagine but then again so was $1070. I'll start getting called somewhere above $1250, but if that happens I'll just aggressively sell Puts at just OTM. Hopefully that would correspond to a correction on the downside.
 
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I am even worse, I still have one of my cc 750 which I have kept rolling for quite sometimes already. I just roll again to next week to same strike with only around $1 credit. (During the rolling past few months, most of the time it seems rolling on Wednesday would be better off to roll than any other day, esp. thurs/fri). Since the SP has shoot off, I am thinking it would be very difficult to keep rolling forever since it's so deep ITM now.

Wondering about few options:
1) Just go ahead to sell shares, and start selling CSP every week and generate better premium and wish it will come back one day
2) Roll to 2022/2023 and get the maximum strike improvement
3) Flip it to put to 2022/2023 and get the best lowest strike, but it will cost a lot to hold my money (I can use less money if I change it to BPS, but the strike of short leg would be much higher than normal csp because of the expensive long leg as well)
4) Keep rolling forever, take an average of $2-3 debit to roll in order to get a $5 strike improvement
NOT-ADVICE

From my previous experience rolling a deep ITM put ($200ish ITM - not as deep as your position has gotten to) I would consider 1-3 month rolls as an additional option. You might find that you can get a small strike improvement on a 1 month roll where the weekly roll won't get that strike improvement (subject to net credit). This is something I will do differently if I find myself that deeply ITM again - it's going to be awhile before the position goes back OTM, so the bigger expiration date rolls provide more time value, and that provides more strike improvement options.

The way I evaluate covered call rolls like this - would I rather be assigned at the current strike and expiration, or would I rather be assigned at the new strike and expiration? Most likely if the strike is improving then the new position is my preference, but its also a way of asking myself about the time value of the resource. If I take assignment now then I can start selling puts or put spreads.

But if the strike is staying the same and I'm adding a $1 net credit, then it sounds like the money isn't doing as much as it could for you.


I -HAVE- rolled a deeply ITM call out to a max date / max strike position and will most likely not do that again. The problem was that the money was tied up for 2 years (finally unrolled that position recently, 1 year into it). That roll was from the ~$1500 range to $4200 ($840 post split) a whole year ago when I thought that $840 was unreachable. In this case the time value was killing me. I cleared out this position (turned it from shares into leaps) just in time for this big run - the account is up about 1/3rd over what the account could have reached in another year when those calls finally expired. Letting those calls go (by buying them out) was probably the best investment decision I've made this year (out of a string of really good decision :D).


Lastly - my own opinion is that if I'm looking at net debits for strike improvements, then I'd wrap it up / call it quits on that position. The occasional net debit, especially when its combined with a net credit in a second position, is more like taking some income from 1 to pay for the strike change in the other. This is a big reason why I'd be looking at those 1-3 month rolls, with a bias to 1 or 2 month positions. Outside of TSLA and our bubble here, you'll find that people doing approximately the same strategy sell ~60 days out and look to close around 20 days out.


Good luck with those!
 
I am pretty much stressed no matter how's price action is now...
I still have all cc at 1200, I will probably let it go at this price if they are really crazy this week.
All part of this game, I'm afraid, but also a good indicator that maybe you're trades are a bit too risky, you'll know it's bad when you can't sleep any more
 
Maybe I need to start watching the option flow and being careful around good or bad news. Good video, he thinks we will drop to around $1000 on Friday and possibly trend up on Monday.

Assuming the guy Dave Lee interviewed knows his stuff, we'd be expecting a push down towards $1000 or somewhere there. So opening a 11/5 BPS would better wait until tomorrow? Change my mind....
 
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Thanks to all.
I am even worse, I still have one of my cc 750 which I have kept rolling for quite sometimes already. I just roll again to next week to same strike with only around $1 credit. (During the rolling past few months, most of the time it seems rolling on Wednesday would be better off to roll than any other day, esp. thurs/fri). Since the SP has shoot off, I am thinking it would be very difficult to keep rolling forever since it's so deep ITM now.

Wondering about few options:
1) Just go ahead to sell shares, and start selling CSP every week and generate better premium and wish it will come back one day
2) Roll to 2022/2023 and get the maximum strike improvement
3) Flip it to put to 2022/2023 and get the best lowest strike, but it will cost a lot to hold my money (I can use less money if I change it to BPS, but the strike of short leg would be much higher than normal csp because of the expensive long leg as well)
4) Keep rolling forever, take an average of $2-3 debit to roll in order to get a $5 strike improvement
I've been theorycrafting about these situations and want to present one (bullishly minded) option that is probably not profit-maximizing but more of a "set it and forget"-fix, to get rid of the stress.

Specifically I looked at @ReddyLeaf 's case where he/she is stuck with a sold 800cc @$250.
Thanks to all for thoughts and assistance. A slight modification to my situation ( I wasn’t exactly remembering which account had what). Unfortunately, I boxed myself into this situation and realistically have very few options. My broker doesn’t allow spreads in IRAs, and I can only buyback options with free cash (unsettled is ok), so I’m stuck there.

My smallest account is my biggest problem: only $5k cash for rolling and -c860s @ $20k/ea & -c905s @ $16k/ea. I had rolled up and out last week (one option at a time, painful) when it was still possible, from the 800s, but got caught sleeping (literally) on Monday’s jump. Now rolling is no longer an option. I will just accept assignments and switch to selling puts.

Fortunately, my biggest account, with those pesky 10/29 -c800s & 11/05 -c800s, also has some -p1040s sold at $31 (now about $6) and some cash. I can definitely buyback the puts, release the $104k cash backing each put, and use it to buyback/roll the 800s. This has been my latest method, keeping strangle puts and calls. I’m still contemplating rolling those out, but I actually think that it’s a really bad idea. I’m convinced that the SP is now permanently above $1000 and that $1500 will occur when Berlin and Austin come online. Rolling out weekly for $1 or so, seems like a pretty dumb idea when the SP is moving at $10/wk (1%), let alone $100/day. The only way to catch up (once an option has already been steamrolled), is to trade daily price swings with perfect timing and I’m not very good at that.

Ok, apparently I made the decision. Bought back the -p1040s at $5.25 (80% profit), rolled-c800s to 11/12 -c805s for $1 cr, and then sold 11/05 -p1060s at $35. I left next week’s -c800s alone and will try to time another trade next week. The problem is that I must buyback puts to buyback the calls (which of course means that the SP direction will be against one or the other when I do the trade).

Trading puts this week has been definitely more profitable (though not as profitable as HODLING shares).:mad: Monday sold p950s at $19-20. Tuesday close at $4-5, sell p1010s at $15 and p1040s at $28-31. Wednesday closed p1040s at $13.50 and rolled to 11/05 p1040s at $31 and p1050s at $38. Today, $30 cr net on puts. Thus, I cleared near $30/sh this week, and possibly next week as well, all on fully cash-secured puts (3%/week), no spreads required, just being ATM, high IV, and having a $100+ SP rise. Not something that I see every week, but it’s what I could do to salvage my poor CC sales.
 
Assuming the guy Dave Lee interviewed knows his stuff, we'd be expecting a push down towards $1000 or somewhere there. So opening a 11/5 BPS would better wait until tomorrow? Change my mind....

That's my plan.

I sold a bunch of CCs against shares at leaps at $1400 for next week at just over $2/share today but that seemed "free" money and if I'm wrong I'm ok losing shares next week at that price... and I closed this Friday expiring 845/945 BPSes for 80+% to free up margin to open new BPSes for 11/5 tomorrow on expected dip.

Haven't decided the strikes there yet, probably depends on the dip :)
 
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Any recommendations on IRA brokers that allow more complicated options trades? My IRA/Roth are with vanguard so if I want to do a spread I have to buy and sell the options as separate transactions which is annoying and limiting.
I’d recommend IBKR. Very reliable platform with a lot of trading tools and options trading for spreads etc.
 
What's the "not advice" on an Iron Condor for 10/29?

Was eyeing 930/980 1150/1200. Too close to the sun? Options profit calculator gives it a 98.5%, but somehow that just seems falsely high to me.
Looks too close to me. I've got 1200 strike cc's for next week that feel ok, but they're also not leveraged as spreads so I can just take assignment and sell at a $1200 share price if I need to.

I am forced into this by a 401k for my current employer that I can't get the money out of and can't invest in TSLA or TSLA-heavy funds, etc.
My employer had a similar restriction. To get the money out of the 401k into a rollover IRA, I need a rollover event, and that would come from leaving the company. I even told HR that this great company benefit was designed to get me to leave the company.

And then it did - I retired partly so that I could get my hands on that 401k money.

I had two 1000 calls for this week. Frankly, I'm ok with one of them getting called but would rather not lose both...but it would be fine.
My question is on strategy.
I know that you've already resolved this. My input for situations like this is to ask myself whether I'd rather be assigned at the current position or the new position. The other input is that when looking at rolls for deeper ITM situations like this, I would be looking at 2-8 week rolls in addition to the 1 week roll, with a bias towards 4 week rolls. Deeply ITM isn't going to resolve in 1 week and the longer roll will reduce the frequency of management and most likely generate enough time value to get a strike improvement.

And then again the question - are you better off being assigned in 1 month with the strike improvement and net credit, or take assignment now.

I bought a single Jun2023 -$1300/+$1000 bull call spread a while back for like $3.5k.....thanks whoever suggested this free money. My problem is that Fidelity has these two contracts separated and the $1300 sold call is sitting as a covered call holding 100 shares of margin. The $1000 strike purchased call is then sitting alone as a very valuable naked call. Isn't half the point of buying this spread that there's no margin/share requirement?
I have the same thing with Fidelity - I don't think its specific to Fidelity. Rather I think that Fidelity is automatically putting things together that yields the lowest possible margin requirement. I expect that the arrangement actually yields less total margin than the arrangement you're thinking.

If you find the Option Summary link on your positions, you might find the position arranged the way you think that they should be. You can also close the strategy from there - I was really happy when somebody else pointed me to that link :)

I have BCS 1160/2000 10/29 and I am feeling stressed about them. Monday changed my life I was traumatize by BCS.
BCS has been my big source of trauma this year as well. I think that this week I've decided I'm not even going to bother with BCS. WHen we're at a relatively high share price (as we are right now) then I'll sell cc / lcc, but I won't be selling call spreads at all (while I'm busy piling up the put spreads like whoa).

I've decided that the risk is too high and the reward too low to take on the black swan risk that we just experienced. I've experienced something like 5 of these over the last decade of TSLA ownership, which is about 5 too many to get in the way of.

All, I’m a long time lurker and I wanted to thank everyone for all of their insights. What recommendation would you make for someone looking to make some additional income from a nice little pile of TSLA shares?

Initial thought was to start with selling conservative CC’s a week out from expiry (I’ve been eyeing 11/5 $1250c for example), but I’ve gathered from this thread that selling short puts might be safer/more lucrative option. The only issue I see with this strategy is the amount of cash I’d have to tie up as collateral. If I understand correctly, this is where the spreads come into play but I’m not at a point where I feel knowledgeable enough to employ that strategy. I’m targeting about $1k a week in income but I’m not sure how realistic that is only selling CC’s.

FWIW I have the luxury of time to spend on managing these positions pretty aggressively. Any not advice would be greatly appreciated.
First observation is that having a specific target / objective is really valuable. When your knowledge and experience builds, you'll be able to make choices between puts and calls, and even make those week to week.

Direct answer - earning $1k/week can be easy depending on the amount of resource available. As somebody else mentioned a $1 premium call option pays out $100, so 10 of those each week gets you the $1k. That's 1000 shares, so around $1M, and at today's call premiums, a really conservative position. Similar order of magnitude on the put side - $900k in cash would support 10 cash secured puts, and I'm pretty sure that the 900 strike put is over $1 right now.

NOT-ADVICE

My suggestion is to start out with small and conservative positions, probably weekly as you indicate you have time for this. The purpose of these initial positions isn't to make money or to reach that $1k/week income yet. The purpose is education and experience - which is an important reason for the weeklies as you learn 4x as fast as monthlies. Of course you do want to make money - my own experience when doing this was that I was getting paid to learn how to do this. None of my other degrees paid me to acquire them :)

Most likely you'll find that you'll get most of that income anyway while you are learning, but the purpose is to learn and gain experience. As these things accumulate you'll have your own answers to your questions, and will naturally shift into larger positions with a risk profile you find acceptable, and that yield the result you're looking for.

Personally I do both - selling calls and puts, and I'm agnostic (kind of anyway) as to which I rely on. A month or two back it was puts when the shares were at a relatively low price. Today its calls as the shares are at a relatively high price (though only covered calls for me - I've decided I don't want to leverage call side any more than that).
 
Thanks to all.


Thanks to all for thoughts and assistance. A slight modification to my situation ( I wasn’t exactly remembering which account had what). Unfortunately, I boxed myself into this situation and realistically have very few options. My broker doesn’t allow spreads in IRAs, and I can only buyback options with free cash (unsettled is ok), so I’m stuck there.

My smallest account is my biggest problem: only $5k cash for rolling and -c860s @ $20k/ea & -c905s @ $16k/ea. I had rolled up and out last week (one option at a time, painful) when it was still possible, from the 800s, but got caught sleeping (literally) on Monday’s jump. Now rolling is no longer an option. I will just accept assignments and switch to selling puts.

Fortunately, my biggest account, with those pesky 10/29 -c800s & 11/05 -c800s, also has some -p1040s sold at $31 (now about $6) and some cash. I can definitely buyback the puts, release the $104k cash backing each put, and use it to buyback/roll the 800s. This has been my latest method, keeping strangle puts and calls. I’m still contemplating rolling those out, but I actually think that it’s a really bad idea. I’m convinced that the SP is now permanently above $1000 and that $1500 will occur when Berlin and Austin come online. Rolling out weekly for $1 or so, seems like a pretty dumb idea when the SP is moving at $10/wk (1%), let alone $100/day. The only way to catch up (once an option has already been steamrolled), is to trade daily price swings with perfect timing and I’m not very good at that.

Ok, apparently I made the decision. Bought back the -p1040s at $5.25 (80% profit), rolled-c800s to 11/12 -c805s for $1 cr, and then sold 11/05 -p1060s at $35. I left next week’s -c800s alone and will try to time another trade next week. The problem is that I must buyback puts to buyback the calls (which of course means that the SP direction will be against one or the other when I do the trade).

Trading puts this week has been definitely more profitable (though not as profitable as HODLING shares).:mad: Monday sold p950s at $19-20. Tuesday close at $4-5, sell p1010s at $15 and p1040s at $28-31. Wednesday closed p1040s at $13.50 and rolled to 11/05 p1040s at $31 and p1050s at $38. Today, $30 cr net on puts. Thus, I cleared near $30/sh this week, and possibly next week as well, all on fully cash-secured puts (3%/week), no spreads required, just being ATM, high IV, and having a $100+ SP rise. Not something that I see every week, but it’s what I could do to salvage my poor CC sales.

I think your main problem is your broker requires free cash to roll. That's extremely inconvenient for an option seller and may end up costing you a lot of missed gains. Why can't you change brokerages?
 
An hour ago we had the same inexplicable midday spike that we had yesterday for 11/5 put premiums.

So I sold some p810.
I was literally just typing this up when I saw your Message.....

Wow, crazy high IV on the Put side still.... 110 IV for the November 5th strike $800's are right at $4 each..... Not bad for just plain ol' CSPs.....

(Not advice)

If we pull back tomorrow those will likely be higher.
 
Point taken. Thank you!

According to my etrade account, available margin is exact amount I have in cash (not sure if that is accurate, but I have not made any requests to trade on margin).

Options level 2.

Cash on hand $20k in current account but I have another $200k available (of which I’d probably be willing to employ about $70k-$80k).
Looks like we are in the same incoming class.

Started on the put side with also 70-80k cash. Targeting 20-30% SP buffer for strikes. At this point, no margin and not looking to get into spreads. My goal for now is to not fat finger an order and just beat the banks rate. Good problem to have but should start thinking what if SP goes higher and my cash starts to lose power(keeping with my 20-30% guide) in writing puts.

On the non-tax account, started with a far OTM 1700 C for 11/5. I will start to go down in strikes after more visibility into this new SP 1000 world.
 
Assuming the guy Dave Lee interviewed knows his stuff, we'd be expecting a push down towards $1000 or somewhere there. So opening a 11/5 BPS would better wait until tomorrow? Change my mind....
I think we'd be halfway down to $1000 today if it weren't for the Biden plan moving forward. If/When these two bills pass and are signed, look out....the moon is the limit.

Dave and his guest were certainly not expecting Biden to leave for climate summit with agreement in place. Seems the 3 senators are still balking a bit, but all indications are they'll fall in line. That's a huge deal relative to him having nothing done before COP26.

Hence I'm only sitting on a few way out of the money BPS. Literally anything could happen in the next 6 trading days.