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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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With all the excitement this morning regarding the stock split I've been managing some "saved" positions (see earlier post).

I had an epiphany in my personal options selling journey (i.e. many of you know this, I just wanted to share).

If you have (more than) enough cash for 100x shares and you have an ATM CC (or not too much ITM), you could - instead of pitting a put and the cc against each other as I'm doing now - swing trade this position to get out of it.

Example: you're stuck with a 4/8 $1000 cc but you are bullish in the short term -> flip it over to a (cash secured) put.

If you are correct and the stock rises, you can flip that put back to a covered call when you believe a local top is reached. If correct and there is another dip or stagnant SP you can flip back to a put etcetera.

Again, nothing new for our more advanced members but since I've only recently started dabbling in fully cash secured puts (as opposed to BPS) I didn't realize this fully until now.

In other words: if you have enough cash available you can get out of any cc position. It just takes time, effort and a little luck ( = your sold option is not excersided early).
This is definitely a strategy but you also need to be extremely careful when doing this. You are basically doing the inverse of what you should be doing in a rising market / falling market. Selling calls into strength and selling puts into weakness.

Having said that, I did the exact same thing when the stock hit 900. I bought back every call I was in profit. I rolled every call I was at a loss to Jan 2023 (1800 strike) and I sold puts in the 800 strike range to cover any other losses. I essentially got out of this at break even (Although with Jan 2023 calls outstanding) The only problem is, it's a little late now... IMO. I would ride this out as I think the Nasdaq is going to stall here and the momentum may fade. I actually have 20% cash available and want to buy a dip back at $1000. Not financial advice. My own opinion.
 
This is definitely a strategy but you also need to be extremely careful when doing this. You are basically doing the inverse of what you should be doing in a rising market / falling market. Selling calls into strength and selling puts into weakness.

Having said that, I did the exact same thing when the stock hit 900. I bought back every call I was in profit. I rolled every call I was at a loss to Jan 2023 (1800 strike) and I sold puts in the 800 strike range to cover any other losses. I essentially got out of this at break even (Although with Jan 2023 calls outstanding) The only problem is, it's a little late now... IMO. I would ride this out as I think the Nasdaq is going to stall here and the momentum may fade. I actually have 20% cash available and want to buy a dip back at $1000. Not financial advice. My own opinion.
Warning duly noted.

However in theory it is doing the "correct" thing: you should flip to a covered call on strength (the puts will be worth less and the calls worth more) and vice versa you should flip to a put into weakness (the calls will be worth less and the puts worth more).

The risk is similar to all directional option trades: if the stock price does the opposite of what you anticipate, you're screwed.

That's why I'm currently using non-directional trades to close positions I've been stuck with, mostly sold strangles. Like for 5/20 I've sold a -1050csp and a -1100cc. One of these will expire worthless for sure. The other probably not (chances are slim the stock price is exactly between 1050 and 1100 that week, but hey, who knows). The remaining sold option can be rolled and managed with the freed up margin.

I have also pitted BPS against cc's as to get rid of either one or the other, but this is not called a strangle anymore. I don't know if there is a name for it (probably, most option plays have ridiculous names. 🙃 )

Real world example: I'm holding for 4/8:

-970p/+770p BPS
-995cc
-1080cc

Most likely the cc's will end up ITM and the BPS will expire worthless, but at the moment the BPS still goes for ~$10 and it's a waste to give up these sure gains so I'm leaving them open for now (I don't see new BPS positions I want to open right now, after the strength of the last two weeks).

I'm not rolling the cc's yet since it would suck if the SP dropped below $1000 next week because of [insert macro reason] and my BPS went ITM and I didn't have the benefit of being able to close out my cc's.

Note for newcomers on this thread that haven't been following along with my trades: I'm currently in "rescue mode", pulling forward options that were rolled out to JAN2023 and beyond bit by bit in order to free up my cash balance that is greatly tied up by all these trades.

It costs me time and therefore opportunity cost, but as long as I can keep all my shares and cash through this endeavour I will have been paid (a lot) to learn. My first options mentor @adiggs taught me that's the way to go. ;) I can then use all my knowledge to start fresh with new insights. TSLA is not going anywhere anytime soon, and neither am I.
 
Adiggs - just so I understand, you'd be selling 3x as many calls (versus puts) at a lower share price and the opposite at a higher share price? I may be thinking about this backwards, but would assume one would want more puts at a lower price (forced to buy low) and more calls at a higher price (forced to sell high). Am I thinking about this right? This is a someday strategy for us - not nearly enough capital to do this at present so we have to stick with spreads.
I think you might be right - that I got things backwards in my message.

Whichever way I got it:
The idea is that at a higher share price I want to be getting assigned on calls, so that I sell shares for cash.

At a lower share price I want to be getting assigned on puts so that I buy shares for cash.


At higher share price I want more cash for selling puts than shares for selling calls. The idea is that what is most likely to happen is that the shares reverse and I'd like to have minimized my share holding for that drop. Similarly at a particularly low price I'd like to have more shares than cash to take advantage of that rise back up. Especially since regression is the most likelyl follow up to a particularly low share price.

That does raise an important difficulty. When we reach a particularly high or low share price, then I shift into the resource that if I'm right, will be the one that performs least well. The one that the share price is moving into. I.e. buying shares at low prices - now I'm selling covered calls into a rising share price as it moves back towards the middle, or even beyond to a relatively high share price.

Similarly at a relatively high share price I'll be turning shares into cash, and then selling puts into the down moves.

I manage that dynamic in a few ways.
- I'm aware of it and will account for it.
- That mostly means the side that I think is about to be under pressure - I'll be particularly conservative with those strikes. At least until the share price is more middling - then I'll get a bit more aggressive. The side that is taking assignment - I'll be more aggressive with at least some of the positions that I want to be assigned. I never want to be all puts or all calls, but at particular extremes I might get down to very few calls or puts.
- My standards for the income are particularly low. That is to say the results I need to achieve in order to meet my income target. I realized a couple of months back - taking on extra risk for extra earnings will just enable my wife and I to donate more to worthy causes during our life (we won't be taking it with us, or leaving it to somebody else). And that extra risk CAN put our retirement in danger or at least under pressure.
- All of the losses and mistakes was getting too aggressive on the wrong side. I.e. too aggressive on puts at an ATH; too aggressive on CC at near term lows (like the 760s I sold when the shares touched 750). If I'd sold 800s or more like 850s the premium would have been a lot smaller, but rolling them up and ahead of the share price wouldn't have been an issue. The latter is a better trade for me. Even though the series of trades that led me to the 760 at share priced 750s had been the pattern for 3 or 4 previous sales, all big wins.

I need a copy of the note @Yoona keeps sticked to her monitor :D
 
That's why I'm currently using non-directional trades to close positions I've been stuck with, mostly sold strangles. Like for 5/20 I've sold a -1050csp and a -1100cc. One of these will expire worthless for sure. The other probably not (chances are slim the stock price is exactly between 1050 and 1100 that week, but hey, who knows). The remaining sold option can be rolled and managed with the freed up margin.

One thing to keep in mind about strangles, and especially inverted strangles (strangles I have gotten into where I was trying to rescue the situation). They perform great when the share price stays between or at least close to the window between the two options. In that window the gains in one are pretty close to offset by the losses in the other, and time decay eats them both up.

But a bigger move beyond either one - you'll be losing money on the losing leg faster than you're making money on the winning leg (at least unrealized results). At an extreme- consider a 1000/1200 strangle (1000 put and 1200 call). If the shares go up to 2500 then the put has long since been worth 0.01. But the 1200 call is now worth $1300. You probably got a $10ish credit on each side - now you've earned the $10 on the put side, but are down 1290 on the losing leg.

Both sides still represent unlimited losses and the other side is only coverage over some window. I've been burned by not understanding that dynamic and letting it get out of hand.
 
One thing to keep in mind about strangles, and especially inverted strangles (strangles I have gotten into where I was trying to rescue the situation). They perform great when the share price stays between or at least close to the window between the two options. In that window the gains in one are pretty close to offset by the losses in the other, and time decay eats them both up.

But a bigger move beyond either one - you'll be losing money on the losing leg faster than you're making money on the winning leg (at least unrealized results). At an extreme- consider a 1000/1200 strangle (1000 put and 1200 call). If the shares go up to 2500 then the put has long since been worth 0.01. But the 1200 call is now worth $1300. You probably got a $10ish credit on each side - now you've earned the $10 on the put side, but are down 1290 on the losing leg.

Both sides still represent unlimited losses and the other side is only coverage over some window. I've been burned by not understanding that dynamic and letting it get out of hand.
That is indeed a risk I envisioned when opening these strangles.

Big difference however is that I'm using the vehicle of a strangle to fix an even worse situation.

Example: I have two ITM cc's, that are at risk of going deeper ITM forever.

I flip one of those hopeless cc's to a put at a certain expiration date for which I can roll the other cc to at a higher strike, thus creating a strangle.

My problem of 2 hopeless cc's then becomes a problem of only 1 hopeless cc. (Or 1 put, but that's never hopeless since it will always work out with enough time in the case of TSLA).

So the worst case scenario of a strangle gone awry is not worse in my case.

That said, thanks for the heads up.
 
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That is indeed a risk I envisioned when opening these strangles.

Big difference however is that I'm using the vehicle of a strangle to fix an even worse situation.

Example: I have two ITM cc's, that are at risk of going deeper ITM forever.

I flip one of those hopeless cc's to a put at a certain expiration date for which I can roll the other cc to at a higher strike, thus creating a strangle.

My problem of 2 hopeless cc's then becomes a problem of only 1 hopeless cc. (Or 1 put, but that's never hopeless since it will always work out with enough time in the case of TSLA).

So the worst case scenario of a strangle gone awry is not worse in my case.

That said, thanks for the heads up.
One thing about strangles:

you can easily make them into (ratio) butterflys/ironflys if you fear things go awry in one way (or open the protection when stock does the opposite). Next step then would be to try to "free" them, when the stock moves in your direction:
Free Butterflies ASAP! (Edit: changed video. This one is the one i meant).
 
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Float is still looking tight and buying still looking strong at 8am Eastern. $1113 with 860k shares of premarket volume.

With Rus/Ukraine at the table, US futures are all green, Europe markets are strongly green.

My plan is still to sell CC mostly Wed/Thurs timeframe thinking FOMO will only build, but I'll dip my toes in today if we're up 2% or more in the early going.

I had planned to be aggressive around 1200, so I might as well stick to a plan for once. Will target 1210c today.

BPS are still sitting off at 5/20 expiration and around $1050/$880. Anyone have strategies to move these closer in and expire them in an IRA? Was looking yesterday at rolling them up and in while doubling the contracts and tightening by half.
 
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It was a good thing 😉 I can pay my taxes + buy racing parts for my 3 👍
Hardest part is knowing when to flip a losing position if you were too aggressive on the wrong side.
*cough* .. never learned that lesson ... still down ~85% YTD .. BUT up from -97.5% .. (yes. i nearly nuked my account, my saving & my future... lessons learned, hopefully :/ )
 
always curios about what BTC was, STO? I know other acronyms for those :rolleyes:
We do have a glossary for this thread. There's some helpful content in the trailing posts but it's still a work in progress.


As for trade tracking a lot of us use spreadsheets but there are also a few using specialist trade tracking software. There's plenty out there and a google search will find a few options.
 
what happened?
not reacted early enough, wanted to sit it out instead of taking 6-figure losses until it was too late & no rolls available..

Also i had a sizeable position in ARK-stuff that also halved taking out even more buying-power..

on the high in january (~1200) i thought: "no way we will see 1000 again" and sold 1000/900 BPS for end of jan .. that did not go well..
rescue-rolling to feb & the further dump did the rest... :(

Currently rebuilding everything :/

I posted at the worst times here if someone needed some programming done for trading .. 😓 But noone took up the offer :/
 
We do have a glossary for this thread. There's some helpful content in the trailing posts but it's still a work in progress.


As for trade tracking a lot of us use spreadsheets but there are also a few using specialist trade tracking software. There's plenty out there and a google search will find a few options.
Thanks. I looked at the glossary and did not find a definition for CSP that @Drezil mentioned in his post. Anyone? Thanks!
 
I would recommend adding OptionStrat | Options profit calculator and optimizer to the mix. Hover over "Build" above & see all common option-strategies with detailed explanations.
Also "Optimize" for getting inspiration. I.e. Bullish with 1500$ target in 2 months can give you ideas :)

One wild example:
image_2022-03-29_180518.png

(note the slider "risk vs. reward" or "max return vs. max probability of profit aka 'chance'" for fine-tuning ;) )