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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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On the call side, despite the big drop so far, I've opened new calls for this week. They are a mix of 800s ($24 credit) and 830s ($12 credit), with the 800s another batch of particularly aggressive CC against June 2022s. Too bad I didn't open these early in the morning when I saw the 850 share price. But shower, breakfast, and a morning meeting and I get to open these at 800ish.

I went with this week as the option premiums are plenty good and I like having the ability to made strike adjustments sooner.
 
On the call side, despite the big drop so far, I've opened new calls for this week. They are a mix of 800s ($24 credit) and 830s ($12 credit), with the 800s another batch of particularly aggressive CC against June 2022s. Too bad I didn't open these early in the morning when I saw the 850 share price. But shower, breakfast, and a morning meeting and I get to open these at 800ish.

I went with this week as the option premiums are plenty good and I like having the ability to made strike adjustments sooner.
Check it out - looking like a clean catch of the bottom, at least for today :) Too bad I didn't want the bottom for any of my trades today.
 
I've rolled some 790 naked puts for this week down to 750 naked puts for next week.
I was considering that exact same roll, but am still holding off for now. Do you have any guidelines that you follow for rolling naked/cash secured puts? I know we have collectively figured out rules for BPS rolling but I'm curious about your thinking about naked put rolling.
 
crossposting lvl2 info here as well:
800 will likely be the bottom (maybe a small dip below).
Why?

I only have NYSE LVL2 Market data. But we have ~75k shares buy-ordered at 800. ALL sell-orders i can see (at NYSE) in TOTAL up to 1000 (i left out those fantasy 8k+ orders ;) ) are only 65k on the sell-side.

Nothing MM can't dip throuh - but will be expensive. So i guess we get further attempts at breaking 800 to then collect all shares from people having stop-losses at those big-round-numbers. We very often see this with MM in control. Naked short to create a dip that let the stop-losses fire, cover the shorts at 2-3$ difference within seconds/minutes. Transferring money from retail to MM ;)

But now that i wrote it we will surely fall through 800 like butter & hit 720 or something crazy.. :/
 
I was considering that exact same roll, but am still holding off for now. Do you have any guidelines that you follow for rolling naked/cash secured puts? I know we have collectively figured out rules for BPS rolling but I'm curious about your thinking about naked put rolling.
I'm still figuring out my guidelines / rules for naked puts.

This is what I've figured out right now. That particular roll is to a strike and expiration where I expect, at this moment, I will take assignment should it be ITM at expiration. My idea/plan is to convert naked puts to shares roughly every $50 down starting at $800. In that spirit I also have a naked put at $790 strike this Friday that I plan (right now) to take assignment on.

For this particular instance, I was also taking the available roll to set up the next week assignment should that opportunity arise. Part of the dynamic that I'm still working out is to have decided in advance what strikes I want to take assignment, and then to have options with that expiration ready in advance. I don't want to arrive at the 750 strike price and then try to get assignment the next week. Of course I could just do the equivalent buy or sell of the shares outside of assignment - I'll also be considering that :)

The remaining puts though are the money makers. Those are also 790s for this week right now that I will be aggressive with. That aggression arises because the share price is relatively low (it can always go lower). If the share price were $1200 then these puts would be relatively conservative.

The general idea with the money makers is a reasonably good chance of OTM at expiration, though dramatically higher than the put spreads I've been doing. If these are ITM and rolling then the rolls will be more of a split between credit and strike improvement.


I've also got CC in the account I'm all-in on this approach, with. They are also pretty aggressive, though not quite as aggressive (share price relatively low - less aggression with the cc). With shares at low 800s I went for the 830 strike. Still high premium ($12 against my $2 minimal income standard) but some room to roll up with a big shift up should we see that.

Its the combo of puts and calls I focus on. For example if Friday arrives and the share price is $700, then the puts probably won't have much of a roll available besides time and minimal credit (no strike improvement). If I'm also opening $12 calls then that's probably a good time to spend the extra $10 on strike improvement for 1 or more puts, rather than mentally banking it.

Alternatively if Friday arrives with a share price of 880 then those calls can probably get a good roll on their own and that week the earnings will come from the puts. At this moment I think the first strike I want to take call assignment is 950, but the idea is similar; to have strikes in mind, in advance, where I'd like to convert shares back into cash (sell high).


Underlying all of this roll logic, for both puts and calls, is the understanding that these are fully cash secured or share backed with no margin usage. All of these positions are "roll forever" capable. So if my put strikes get stuck at 750 with shares at 500 for the next 2 years (and for some reason I didn't take assignment), then I can still roll them while I wait out the recovery. I'm probably doing 1 month rolls with 1-2 weeks to expiration, or even quarterly rolls at that point :)
 
Very interesting bounce here - could be a double bottom / bear trap. I want to see us get back above the 200 day and back in the channel though

1645560219922.png
 
crossposting lvl2 info here as well:
800 will likely be the bottom (maybe a small dip below).
Why?

I only have NYSE LVL2 Market data. But we have ~75k shares buy-ordered at 800. ALL sell-orders i can see (at NYSE) in TOTAL up to 1000 (i left out those fantasy 8k+ orders ;) ) are only 65k on the sell-side.

Nothing MM can't dip throuh - but will be expensive. So i guess we get further attempts at breaking 800 to then collect all shares from people having stop-losses at those big-round-numbers. We very often see this with MM in control. Naked short to create a dip that let the stop-losses fire, cover the shorts at 2-3$ difference within seconds/minutes. Transferring money from retail to MM ;)

But now that i wrote it we will surely fall through 800 like butter & hit 720 or something crazy.. :/
I'm interested in learning more about the L2 info. I get the general idea - the information on limit orders and volumes at different prices. How easy / expensive is it to get access to? How easy / difficult is it to read and interpret?
 
I'm interested in learning more about the L2 info. I get the general idea - the information on limit orders and volumes at different prices. How easy / expensive is it to get access to? How easy / difficult is it to read and interpret?

click filter "depth of book" and you see the rates for each exchange. Non-Pro: Individuals, Pro: Financial managers, company etc.

How easy it is to interpret? HORRIBLE.

I am currently working on software to get me a realtime-view of TSLA like shown here: https://ninjatrader.com/de/blog/visualize-the-order-book-with-market-depth-map/
Data-Source is still IBKR, but not their horrible slow java-thingy that caches nothing & you always run into problems with charts not loading :/

Why am i writing my own? There is just no linux-native tool for it. There are third-party-offers for like "give us 100 bucks/month and you get a windows app that will hopefully work decently with IBKR - but better use xxx (reflink) as external data provider additionally to your broker & pay there as well".

I mean .. i'm a simple man. I want thing, i build thing.
 
I had a rare surgery day where I went in and assisted a friend, so I couldn't watch the ticker. So at the open this morning I rolled my mom's naked 850 puts for this Friday to the end of March for a nice premium (850 strikes again). I figure by then we will be getting close to Q1 numbers being released, and the SP should be back around this level. If the SP doesn't recover, then I will roll again for little to no premium in a month, but I think the odds of that are low. I decided it didn't make sense to roll down and out for no credit at this point when I predict a V-shaped recovery.
 
I had a rare surgery day where I went in and assisted a friend, so I couldn't watch the ticker. So at the open this morning I rolled my mom's naked 850 puts for this Friday to the end of March for a nice premium (850 strikes again). I figure by then we will be getting close to Q1 numbers being released, and the SP should be back around this level. If the SP doesn't recover, then I will roll again for little to no premium in a month, but I think the odds of that are low. I decided it didn't make sense to roll down and out for no credit at this point when I predict a V-shaped recovery.
Something I consider on rolls like these is something in between the max strike improvement or same strike / maximum credit rolls. I've had situations where I can hit my income target with a fraction of the available credit, so I can also use some of that credit to improve the strike.

With naked puts improving the strike is really more about increasing the odds of having a good roll the next time around. And of course the position improving enough to go OTM, but the latter isn't a freebie. When the position goes OTM and expires then the ongoing liability against the cash is cleared up, but the credits spent buying a better and better strike are also 'lost' in the sense that the better strike value is only realized by actually taking assignment. Without assignment the better strike is risk reduction, not profit.


I found a nice tracking sheet in one of those Reddit threads I posted in the last few days. The tracking sheet is interesting in that there is no tracking of specific strikes and expirations entered. Instead its all credits and debits, with those adding up to income or results. The actual positions aren't tracked as they just don't matter, at least at some level.

I hadn't really thought about it in those terms previously but I find that I'm liking it. That plus an income target makes it pretty easy, at least for me, to roll for the income target plus as much strike improvement as possible using the remainder (or at least as much strike improvement as I want).
 
Looking forward to a green open and up day. We are still holding our 3/4 and 3/11 BPS at strikes form 770 to 800 and the 1/20/23 -980/+830 BPS that we had to roll way out to save in Jan.

Data update - I looked back at rolling 10, 6 and 3 day periods from mid-October through present and this is what I found...

For BPS: anything >15% seems to be safe. The 12/3, 12/10, 1/28 and 2/18 expiry's were all down 10.6% and 14.4% on a rolling 10 day period, 7-11% on a rolling 6 day period, and 7-13.4% on the 3 day period (the worst 3 day being 12/3). What's this tell us? Catch a 3% plus down day and write 15% OTM BPS 6-10 DTE and you're likely fine.

For BCS: well, lately anything 5% OTM seems to be fine, but when we had the rally in late Oct/early Nov, you would have needed to be a minimum of 20% OTM between 6-10 DTE. 10/29 expiry had a rolling 10 day return of 17.5%, and 11/5 had 19.7%.

For those playing it safe, I hope the helps. I haven't done enough analysis to have thoughts on shorter-term opportunistic trades, but even amidst the current and constant down days, there's money to be made if one plays the slow-and-steady game. +/-20% condors anyone?
 
Looking forward to a green open and up day. We are still holding our 3/4 and 3/11 BPS at strikes form 770 to 800 and the 1/20/23 -980/+830 BPS that we had to roll way out to save in Jan.

Data update - I looked back at rolling 10, 6 and 3 day periods from mid-October through present and this is what I found...

For BPS: anything >15% seems to be safe. The 12/3, 12/10, 1/28 and 2/18 expiry's were all down 10.6% and 14.4% on a rolling 10 day period, 7-11% on a rolling 6 day period, and 7-13.4% on the 3 day period (the worst 3 day being 12/3). What's this tell us? Catch a 3% plus down day and write 15% OTM BPS 6-10 DTE and you're likely fine.

For BCS: well, lately anything 5% OTM seems to be fine, but when we had the rally in late Oct/early Nov, you would have needed to be a minimum of 20% OTM between 6-10 DTE. 10/29 expiry had a rolling 10 day return of 17.5%, and 11/5 had 19.7%.

For those playing it safe, I hope the helps. I haven't done enough analysis to have thoughts on shorter-term opportunistic trades, but even amidst the current and constant down days, there's money to be made if one plays the slow-and-steady game. +/-20% condors anyone?
Very informative, thanks. May I ask how you calculate these rolling periods (the gist of it, you don't have to give away your secrets)? I assume with some programming?

My method would have to be :
1) open daily chart
2) open Excel
3) start inputting data and formulas
(weeks later)
4) result!
 
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Reactions: UltradoomY
Very informative, thanks. May I ask how you calculate these rolling periods (the gist of it, you don't have to give away your secrets)? I assume with some programming?

My method would have to be :
1) open daily chart
2) open Excel
3) start inputting data and formulas
(weeks later)
4) result!
Sure - I list the daily move percentages per day (difference between prior close and current day close), and then take the aggregate performance of that day and the prior 9 (for the 10 day) and so on. Below is a snippet (columns from L to R are: date, price movement on date, 10 day rolling, 6 day rolling, and 3 day rolling aggregate performance). I literally update the second column at the end of the day and that's it.

Edit: if anyone wants the data, PM me. There's no programming, it's basic excel. I get the EOD price movements from our brokerage account.

1645628075790.png
 
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