Senators declare FSD deceptive/misleading.

[Knightshade]

The recent posts above - debating the meaning of "autopilot" - among knowledgable persons reinforces my point. The AVERAGE, REASONABLE person does not know or understand these distinctions.

Except, they do.

That there's also folks who are less reasonable and just make up definitions for things without bothering to take 5 seconds to understand them is the problem.

Autopilot has had a defined, specific, meaning in aircraft going back longer than you have been alive. It's a very well defined and understood term among those who deal with aircraft.

And Tesla using that name was a choice that absolutely made perfect sense. Tesla autopilot does similar things (arguably more things, since it incorporates throttle control too) than an aircraft autopilot.



Moreso that say Ford who chose co-pilot for their system name... which is a term for something that actually does way more than Fords system does

But nobodys getting mad Ford for some reason.

 

[Ramphex]

Except, they do.

That there's also folks who are less reasonable and just make up definitions for things without bothering to take 5 seconds to understand them is the problem.

Autopilot has had a defined, specific, meaning in aircraft going back longer than you have been alive. It's a very well defined and understood term among those who deal with aircraft.

And Tesla using that name was a choice that absolutely made perfect sense. Tesla autopilot does similar things (arguably more things, since it incorporates throttle control too) than an aircraft autopilot.



Moreso that say Ford who chose co-pilot for their system name... which is a term for something that actually does way more than Fords system does

But nobodys getting mad Ford for some reason.

Alright fanman, we get your point. We’ll make a PSA for the general public to make sure they’re well aware of the literal definition of the word “autopilot” since it’s been around longer than we have been alive.

 

[Knightshade]

Alright fanman, we get your point. We’ll make a PSA for the general public to make sure they’re well aware of the literal definition of the word “autopilot” since it’s been around longer than we have been alive.

be sure and explain what a co pilot is too, so they can go complain to Ford moving forward instead of Tesla


If I'm in an aircraft with a co-pilot, I can let them 100% fly the plane without any need for me to pay attention for a while.

That's not, at all, what Fords system does.


With an autopilot however I'm still required to be paying attention, supervising the system, and ready to take manual control at any time- just like Teslas autopilot.

 

[Ramphex]

be sure and explain what a co pilot is too, so they can go complain to Ford moving forward instead of Tesla


If I'm in an aircraft with a co-pilot, I can let them 100% fly the plane without any need for me to pay attention for a while.

That's not, at all, what Fords system does.


With an autopilot however I'm still required to be paying attention, supervising the system, and ready to take manual control at any time- just like Teslas autopilot.

I don’t drive a Ford, why do I need to care about their cars, features, or their customer base.

 

[MA128]

Except, they do.

Really? Stop any person in the street and ask them what autopilot means. I dare say 99% will answer, "the plane flies itself." The other 1% are aeronautical engineers or pilots who have actual knowledge of these systems.

BTW, I'm 67 so I might have been around longer

I truly don't mean to start a flame war. I just think the public at large is misled by the names of these Tesla functions - and that's not good for anyone, Tesla included.

 

[Knightshade]

I don’t drive a Ford, why do I need to care about their cars, features, or their customer base.

You seem to care a great deal about anybody not accurately using aircraft control terminology- I was just pointing out someone who unlike Tesla is using it incorrectly.

Looking forward to your 3rd reply since you claimed you were "done" with the topic though

BTW, I'm 67 so I might have been around longer

Nope. The first aircraft AP system was developed by Sperry Corporation in 1912. The autopilot connected a gyroscopic heading indicator and attitude indicator to hydraulically operated elevators and rudder.

The term has been around and well defined for over a century.

 

[Knightshade]

I bet you’re fun at parties

Indeed I am! Folks frequently invite me to settle arguments

 

[EVNow]

“Tesla’s marketing has repeatedly overstated the capabilities of its vehicles, and these statements increasingly pose a threat to motorists and other users of the road,....”


“Accordingly, we urge you to open an investigation into potentially deceptive and unfair practices in Tesla’s advertising and marketing of its driving automation systems and take appropriate enforcement action to ensure the safety of all drivers on the road.”

“Tesla and Musk’s repeated overstatements of their vehicle’s capabilities – despite clear and frequent warnings – demonstrate a deeply concerning disregard for the safety of those on the road and require real accountability,”

Senators call for FTC investigation of Tesla’s Autopilot feature

Sens. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) and Ed Markey (D-Mass.) are calling on the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) to investigate Tesla’s marketing of a partially assisted driving feature known as Autopi…

thehill.com

I declare these Senators are deceptive / misleading.

 

[CyberGus]

I believe consumer confusion is induced by Tesla selling Autopilot and "FSD(someday)" together, causing the terms to be conflated.

There is also a great deal of angst by those who paid for and received the ADAS features but not the FSD part yet. I believe Tesla should unbundle FSD from the rest of the ADAS systems, and sell it separately when it actually works.

 

[Knightshade]

I believe consumer confusion is induced by Tesla selling Autopilot and "FSD(someday)" together, causing the terms to be conflated.

...huh?

Autopilot is included free with the car, and has been for years now.

Only FSD is a sold feature- and lists the specific items the package includes during the sales process.

There is also a great deal of angst by those who paid for and received the ADAS features but not the FSD part yet. I believe Tesla should unbundle FSD from the rest of the ADAS systems, and sell it separately when it actually works.

This is literally how it works, and has for over 3 years now.

The car comes with AP for free (autosteer in your lane and TACC)

All the more advanced features are a paid option called FSD.

(disclaimer- this is in NA anyway-- I believe certain other markets offer some other bundling still)

 

[EVNow]

(moderator edit) …I'm not particularly against these senators - they are just the run-of-the mill Dem Senators. But if we apply the same yardstick to FSD and what Senators say to get elected .... its quite clear Senators are unable to do the things they say they will do (for various reasons, many beyond their control). Just like FSD.

 

[CyberGus]

...huh?

Autopilot is included free with the car, and has been for years now.

Only FSD is a sold feature- and lists the specific items the package includes during the sales process.




This is literally how it works, and has for over 3 years now.

The car comes with AP for free (autosteer in your lane and TACC)

All the more advanced features are a paid option called FSD.

(disclaimer- this is in NA anyway-- I believe certain other markets offer some other bundling still)

I just looked at the Tesla ordering page. They are selling "Full Self Driving Capability" which includes optional features like Navigate on Autopilot, Auto Lane Change, Autopark, and Summon.

Since "Navigate on Autopilot" is part of the "Full Self Driving Capability" package, wouldn't you agree they are conflating these terms?

 

[Knightshade]

I just looked at the Tesla ordering page. They are selling "Full Self Driving Capability" which includes optional feature like Navigate on Autopilot, Auto Lane Change, Autopark, and Summon.

Since "Navigate on Autopilot" is part of the "Full Self Driving Capability" package, wouldn't you agree they are conflating these terms?

No?

it's something additional that does extra stuff if already on autopilot

WHILE on AUTOPILOT it will NAVIGATE exits and interchanges for you.

There's nothing being conflated at all. It's adding a new feature that enhances one you get with the car.

 

[Bouba]

Since "Navigate on Autopilot" is part of the "Full Self Driving Capability" package, wouldn't you agree they are conflating these terms?

Not really...Autopilot takes you down the highway...FSD takes you in the right direction

 

[Ramphex]

I wonder if plane owners pay for Full Self Flying addon after getting their planes with Autopilot. You know, so their planes can fly in the right direction.

 

[Knightshade]

I wonder if plane owners pay for Full Self Flying addon after getting their planes with Autopilot. You know, so their planes can fly in the right direction.

if you're asking if more advanced automation features than the ones analogous to basic Tesla AP cost more money- the answer is absolutely they do.

Just like with Tesla.

Thanks for once again pointing out how accurately the Tesla naming and pricing conventions compare to similar systems in aircraft

 

[2101Guy]

Really, show me where I wrote that.

"..if someone asks for FSD refund, just give it."

Post number 4

Tesla refunded my FSD payment

First time posting - just wanted to provide encouragement to people let down by Tesla with FSD & the fear of legal action. I bought FSD 2 years ago, paying full price at that time - there was no discounted special offer. A couple of months back I requested Tesla to refund the full payment for...

teslamotorsclub.com

(moderator edit)

 

[2101Guy]

So people should ask for refunds, and Tesla should "give" the refunds, because FSD is actually good/delivering as advertised? THATS your argument??

Your logic is fundamentally FLAWED.

(moderator edit)

 

[Knightshade]

So people should ask for refunds, and Tesla should "give" the refunds, because FSD is actually good/delivering as advertised? THATS your argument??

No.

First- it's not MY argument at all.

Second- it's obvious he's saying they should give refunds regardless of reason. Ask for one? Get one.

if you want one because you blew all your rent on hookers and blow and need the cash? You get a refund.

Reason doesn't matter.

The only person to suggest needing a REASON was you

And you made one up he never stated and then claimed he made it.

Which, again, he did not.

(moderator edit)

 

[2101Guy]

(moderator edit) …We actually...are not arguing. We AGREE on your statement..
If someone requests a refund for FSD, JUST GIVE IT. REGARDLESS of reason.

EASY.