Service Records for CPO cars

[MsElectric]

@SkBotson, Thank you for your comments. I agree.

Add to this the apparent policy by Tesla of not accepting a fee to perform a pre purchase inspection makes car dealers seem darn right reasonable and consumer friendly which is quite an accomplishment. I don't know who at Tesla comes up with these anti customer policies but I think at the least Tesla should provide what just about any other car dealer provides. I think we can all agree that would be quite a low bar based on our experiences with car dealers

You can drive a car to a Mercedes dealer and for a couple of hundred dollars they would perform a thorough pre purchase inspection and provide you with a full VMI vehicle history report. Perhaps tesla can be as reasonable as well.

 

[Krugerrand]

Instead of asking for a change to this really dumb policy, your suggestion is to go buy different car, speechless...

Doesn't look to me like you're speechless.

Let's try it this way:

You said: "Having all the service records available actually reflects on the decision whether or now a person will buy a car more than what you think."

First, it has less than zero affect on my decision as I've already stated. I understand that others, who perhaps don't have the auto background that I do nor an uncle with it, might want that information. It's quite a bit different, though, when talking about CPO Model S's and you and some others seem to not understand that, neither is a replaced drive train/converter/whathaveyou.

Let's start by putting together what a hypothetical Tesla Model S service record would look like and then we can see just how important one would be. I'll start us off:

Oil changes: N/A
Tune up (Plugs, Wires, Dis Cap etc...): N/A
Radiator: N/A
Transmission: N/A
Fuel Pump: N/A
Water Pump: N/A
Timing Belt/Chain: N/A
Oil Pan: N/A
Gas Tank/Catalytic Converter: N/A
Belts/Hoses: N/A
All things drive train/engine related: N/A

Brakes: Regen and one pedal driving of the Model S means that brake life is, well, a lot. But yes, one might want to ask Tesla about the brakes of a CPO vehicle. This would be an item of importance and could simply be asked by the customer.

Windshield Washer Fluid topped off: Unimportant

Tire Wear: Easily observed by the customer before purchase and therefore can be questioned and addressed if there's any concern.

Updated Firmware: Unimportant as it can be downloaded at owner's convenience.

Battery: One question that a customer might like to know on this front is the current range that the battery can be charged to. Other than that, you're getting a 4 year, 50,000 mile warranty on it and all the rest.

Cosmetic/Body Stuff: We all have eyes and ears. If a door handle doesn't work right, if there's a squeaky pano roof, etc... you're going to discover that on your test drive/when you examine the car before purchase. Other than a car having been in an accident, which would be important to know, all this stuff is not important to the running of the vehicle.

Servicing the cars is just as important as delivering them and reporting them every quarter.

Servicing them for what exactly? Tesla has no mandatory servicing procedures, and even if you neglect the car it's still covered under warranty. If you want to talk 12v batteries going kaput, having a service record of when it was last replaced/or not isn't going to have any effect on how long the one in the car is going to last.

Most of what people are having to wait weeks or months for before getting into a SC is annoyance issues, not safety or being able to use the car issues; a squeaky pano roof, a headliner seal, condensation in a tail light.

 

[MsElectric]

@Krugerrand: You are making a mockery of a reasonable request to see the service records by typing out a bunch of nonsense that has nothing to do with an EV. By services records what any reasonable person would mean would be the following:

+ Any services performed on the car.
+ Any service campaigns performed on the car.
+ Any complaints made by the previous owner and what was done to address them.
+ Any defects or issues found and services performed to address those issues.

There you have it. Really, it's not that complicated to understand. This is all about a very reasonable request for a someone who owns a Model S to know what was done to that car previously and apparently your position that this information should be withheld from the person who owns the car.

I can't believe you are apparently making case for withholding information about a Model S from the person who actually owns that Model S.

As for Tesla not requiring any services to be performed for warranty coverage, I don't recall anyone disputing that that. However if someone is selling their 3 year old Model S and they've never once taken it to be serviced, that information is relevant to someone looking to buy the car.

The only reason I can understand for not disclosing the service records is if there's something to hide. If there's nothing to hide, then why withhold this information? @skboston is spot on.

 

[Krugerrand]

@Krugerrand: You are making a mockery of a reasonable request to see the service records by typing out a bunch of nonsense that has nothing to do with an EV.

And you're making a mountain out of a molehill concerning a vehicle that simply doesn't require service in any general sense of people's understanding, that's also coming with a very good warranty. But hey, if you need to know if the previous owner complained about a squeaky pano roof, then have at it, you just won't be getting a Model S CPO car at this time.

The only reason I can understand for not disclosing the service records is if there's something to hide. If there's nothing to hide, then why withhold this information?

Yep, has to be a conspiracy. That you believe that says more about you than Tesla.

 

[skboston]

Doesn't look to me like you're speechless.
Most of what people are having to wait weeks or months for before getting into a SC is annoyance issues, not safety or being able to use the car issues; a squeaky pano roof, a headliner seal, condensation in a tail light.

Actually it's not entirely annoyance issue, it's inconvenience and speaks for many issues on cars and not enough service centers. Although service is great each time I bring my car to the SC, having to way 1+ month for an appointment is just crazy.

Ok you say the car needs no maintenance, ok I will agree with that to a certain extend, but let's list some major issues with the car and why having the service records is crutial to any owner:

1. Alignment issues after delivery (earlier cars)
2. Drivetrain replacement
3. 1st gen door handles - those break quite often and I don't need to explain how this could be an issue
4. Onboard chargers replacement
5. 12V battery issue, especially earlier cars
6. Charge port failure (common issue imo, mine was changed twice so far).

I'm sure I'm missing some, but those are major things I would love to know the state of before I'm buying the car. I admit I wasn't aware of any of these issues before I bought my car, but I've suffered from all but drive train and 12V and some of, multiple times.
Having that information before hand can save a lot of troubles of the owner in the long run, I can't justify a situation where hiding that information is bad for the buyer and somehow the previous owner is exposed in some way.

The quality seem to have improved in the newer cars, but for example mine is in the first 20k built and there are quite a few issues and I'm keeping all service records as I would do with any other car or truck I own.
If I see that the vehicle have spent a lot of time at the dealer, I would simply walk away and find another, as simply put when I buy it, problems will keep piling up with it and that's valid for Tesla and all other manufacturers.

People usually share on the forum their problems and if someone is to start writing down the issues from all posts, can easily create the suggested data from your earlier posts and I'm sure it's been done to some extent and reach the same conclusion.
The reality is that negative articles will keep coming in, there will always be those that doubt and are unwilling to change and I'm hoping you're not one of them. Change is good and should be embraced with open arms, especially when the company is trying to be a leader in an industry that's known for it's slow pace of improvement and changes.

Tesla has done quite a bit to speed things up and shouldn't stop here and hopefully sooner rather than later these non-sense policies are changed as it can only help them in the fight they are up against.

I can only tell you this about servicing my car... in 3 months I have my wipers changed 3 times now and they are still bad and doesn't clean well, that's a minor problem but it's annoying when you live in New England with rain every other day. It saddens me that I need to call them on Monday and complain once again about that issue, literally they were bad after I picked the car up from the shop and not few days later of use or abuse.

Those things go in the service record of the car and when next owner (hopefully I will never have to sell the car), it would be good piece of information to know about it, so he can ask what's up with so frequent change of wiper blades and is it cause of concern.
I hope you see what I'm trying to say here that having service records information can lead to a more educated decision and experience for the buyer, rather than trying to hide the problems, sell the car and leave the owner with a bitter taste for the long run.
Enthusiasts like us that are willing to close their eyes for the smaller problems are only handful compared to the masses the company is preparing to much and their tolerance level is much lower and when they spend money they expect everything to in their car to work flawlessly.

The CPO program is a good start as the prices of some of the cars are in the range of $60000, which attracts much larger crowd and people that can actually afford it and I'm sure they aren't aware that servicing a Tesla is probably more expensive than servicing a similar car from other brand when out of warranty. If you're not aware Tesla labor rate is $175 per hour in Boston(I guess it's similar around the country), parts are also expensive and simple on-board charger replacement could run you in the $3-4000 range and those seem to fail here and there, let alone that almost everything that is done to the car requires firmware update and can't be done by 3rd party shop or the owner.

 

[MsElectric]

And you're making a mountain out of a molehill concerning a vehicle that simply doesn't require service in any general sense of people's understanding, that's also coming with a very good warranty. But hey, if you need to know if the previous owner complained about a squeaky pano roof, then have at it, you just won't be getting a Model S CPO car at this time.

Yep, has to be a conspiracy. That you believe that says more about you than Tesla.

So now I am some conspiracist because I feel it is reasonable to be able to see the service records of a car? It is you who are making both mountains and molehills out of essentially being in favor of Tesla withholding the service records of a car from the actual owner of the car.

It seems you don't care about service records so why are you so against others having access to this information? My point and the point of others who have chimed in on this topic is that this is a reasonable request and is pretty much an industry standard. It is so reasonable that even car dealers, the singular entity that is universally despised across the universe, actually considers this request reasonable and provides the information requested. Being even more unreasonable than a car dealer is never a good position to take but god luck with that position.

If you ever buy a used car, feel free to be cavalier about this topic as you seem to be and buy the car with your eyes closed because it is a Tesla. Just realize there are people out there who would like to know the service history of the car that they buy with their hard earned money.

As for the squeaky Pano Roof, so what if someone has complained about it? I realize you'd rather this information be hidden but this is essentially the same Pano Roof that Mercedes uses and Mercedes has no issues with sharing the VMI of a car with customers so they can make an informed buying decision knowing the past service history of the car. If I see on the service records that a squeaky sunroof was fixed under warranty that to me is a positive as it is one less thing I know has been fixed.

Are you looking to buy a used or CPO car? Why are you so against people who want the service records from having access to this information?

 

[dsm363]

I don't see the issue with someone asking for the records since Tesla obviously has them. This doesn't need to be complicated or get personal.

 

[Drucifer]

One thing that I am curious about is how Tesla is managing which cars go into CPO.

With Mercedes, BMW, Lexus et. al., they only CPO the cars that have a favorable maintenance history and condition, maybe the top half or even top third of vehicles taken on trade, and auction off or export the remainder. Is Tesla doing the same, or is Tesla putting every single vehicle traded in on CPO regardless of condition or maintenance history? That is more of a question of the management of the used vehicle stock and selection than the status of any one vehicle.

 

[Cyclone]

Was it @lolgas that said the CPO he bought (before the public website went live) wasn't supposed to be a CPO at all, but they went ahead and reconditioned it and sold it to him since they didn't realize that until after he out the deposit down?

And if it's any consolation, my local service center said they would give me the service records, but their Internet connection was down. Sent an email to my DS asking for them and he replied back that he is requesting them on my behalf. So, as many things in life, YMMV.

 

[bhzmark]

Just insist on getting the records. I doubt they have a "policy". More likely just ad hoccery. Insist and escalate and mention with a sneer that even Toyota and gm give the records. Of course Tesla will give the records too.

 

[kyalami]

Just insist on getting the records. I doubt they have a "policy". More likely just ad hoccery. Insist and escalate and mention with a sneer that even Toyota and gm give the records. Of course Tesla will give the records too.

Well, I had no idea when I started this thread that it was going to be such a hot topic.

My recent commitment to acquire a CPO Tesla was the single highest financial commitment that I have ever made in 50+ years of car buying. I did not require a service history PRIOR to making the commitment or putting down my deposit.

As such, as the new soon to be "owner" of the car, it does not seem at all unreasonable to know its past service history. I am also a member of the Porsche Club of America and subscribe to the Porsche forums on Pelican.com. When cars are advertised for sale, the service history is a very specific item called out that greatly enhances the value of the car in question. The more records available, the better, and the higher the price the seller can command in the marketplace.

So I don't know what all the excitement is about really....A car that has had a lot of documented remedial work done should actually be a better bet for a CPO purchaser in most case I believe.

Keep in mins, I'm nor asking for information about the previous owner, just the car....