Today I received an email from LA Solar Group saying my app was certain to be approved but Tesla was sending most Powerwalls to Puerto Rico and the earliest install would be 2018. I did my solar panels this year so I need to complete the battery installation this year in order to qualify for the federal tax credit. I don't know if I believe them.
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SGIP rebate for Powerwall 2 install in SCE territory?
- Thread starter Az_Rael
- Start date
When I was getting bids for solar + powerwalls in September, LA Solar group said they did not have any powerwalls in stock and they were on a 6-8 month backorder.
LA Solar Group also installed my solar panels earlier this year, I was happy with their service, and signed a contract back in April to incorporate a single Powerwall into my system. The contract price was high, but I was in line for SGIP Step 1 (the largest possible SGIP rebate). Initially, I was told that they hoped to install the Powerwall in June. At my request, the contract also specified that there would be no "critical loads" subpanel, as my intention has been to back up all circuits in our home.
Tesla, however, seems to have been prioritizing Powerwall deliveries to their own customers as opposed to third party installers. Realizing this, I placed a new Powerwall reservation directly with Tesla in late August, figuring it would be best to start lining up an alternative in case LA Solar Group proved unable to acquire Powerwalls in a timely manner.
By October, LA Solar Group had a system design for me to review, and it became clear that they would not be backing up our larger circuits. This is because Tesla guidelines are generally for at least two Powerwalls to be installed if "whole home backup" is desired; Tesla doesn't want a single Powerwall system to back up any circuits above 30 amps. This appears to be a de facto requirement, not just a suggestion or mere recommendation.
Not wanting to install a "crippled" system that wouldn't cover all circuits inside the house, I cancelled the contract with LA Solar Group. Almost simultaneously, following work by their design team, Tesla got back to me with a firm, reasonable bid to install two Powerwalls for whole-home backup and TOU load shifting. LA Solar Group offered to install two Powerwalls for me, but for significantly more money than Tesla was charging, and a new SGIP application would be needed.
In spite of some uncertainty about SGIP, I went ahead and confirmed the order with Tesla, figuring that I'll most likely wind up in SGIP Step 3 or 4. Self-applying for Step 2 is an alternative that some here are pursuing, though I'm not sure whether it's worth the effort.
I've been told by Tesla that my permit application has been submitted to the county (I'm not in a city) and that the wait for installation will probably be weeks and not months. I do hope they can install before we get real winter weather here in the mountains, which always seems to lead to some power outages.
I was concerned about this also. However, based on what we now know, if you're going to be using your solar panels to charge the battery system 100% of the time, then it appears that you'll qualify for the federal ITC even if the battery system is installed in a different tax year.
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On Nov. 6 I received an email from SCE that my application was approved. I have a year to complete installation so I should be good assuming Tesla frees up some batteries. I was approved in the Step 1 group.
I've gotten different estimates for Powerwall 2 installation. What I found is that Tesla Energy can install two Poweralls without SGIP incentive for $15K, while others quoted me $19K-$21K (before SGIP) for essentially the same design installation simply because they have the SGIP incentive available. I find the $4k-$6K extra cost from other installers to do the same job is really their way to get back some of the SGIP rebates from me. Does anyone have the same experience?
I'm also curious to know if it's possible to self-apply for the SGIP incentive if I choose to go with Tesla Energy who have reached their cap?
I'm also curious to know if it's possible to self-apply for the SGIP incentive if I choose to go with Tesla Energy who have reached their cap?
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Yes. Although I am not in SCE territory, the lowest quote I've gotten from an installer that is not Tesla is $19,500. Every installer has pointed out that they are actually offering a better deal than Tesla, because I they can get me the rebate, while Tesla cannot.
That's why I'm looking into getting 3 powerwalls, which counts as large scale storage, where Tesla hasn't reached their cap. (There's some question of whether the net metering rules allow this, though.)
I also sent an email to CPUC (via the address here: Self-Generation Incentive Program) to point out that the developer cap seems to be causing higher prices.
It's more that Tesla is installing the Powerwalls basically for free, or using their profit on the hardware to subsidize the installation costs. The third party installers say that they get no discount from Tesla on the hardware, so of course they have to charge $4K to $5K in installation costs for what people have said is 30 to 40 person-hours of labor.
Cheers, Wayne
Cheers, Wayne
SoundDaTrumpet
Member
Please see the main SGIP thread. There is another installer in the SCE region that can get you into Step 2 at your expected price.
It is possible to self-apply. My recommendation is "no" if you are in the PG&E territory, and "60/40 yes" if you are in the SCE territory. The CPUC only has influence but are not the governing body approving applications.
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According to the the CSE (not SCE!) representative, it's possible, unless it's a Powerwall! (Tesla won't "allow their customers to complete the develop activities that are required for verification through the SGIP.") And it sounds like this is actually according CPUC, not just the local program administrator.
I'm planning to go to the quarterly SGIP workshop that is being held in San Diego on Friday to try to find out more, and perhaps argue my case. (Not really sure what goes on at these workshops.)
Self-Generation Incentive Program (SGIP) Quarterly Workshop | CSE
I wouldn't qualify $2200 (what Tesla quoted me for installation of two Powerwalls) as "basically free". That would be cheap for 30-40 hours of labor, of course, but I think my installation will be as simple as could be. I would love for Tesla to just sell me the parts and let me install it myself!
$4K-$6K in addition to the $2200 that Tesla Energy quoted for labor in the $15K. So they are actually charging $6200-$8200 just for labor! They are also charging full retail price for the hardware so it is irrelevant whether or not they get a discount on the hardware from Tesla.
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As a data point, I am getting 2 powerwalls installed plus solar by Tesla Energy right now. Today, they got both powerwalls installed, wired and powered up today. They arrived at 8AM and left at 5PM. Tomorrow the solar side crew will be back to install my panels and the inverter and the powerwall guys will hook up the internet on the powerwalls.
A total of 1.5 days of labor it looks like. There were ~3 guys working the powerwall install and a big crew for the solar.
So I would guess 30 to 36 man hours total (depending on how long they work tomorrow). I was getting quotes from other installers with powerwalls in stock and SGIP step 2 available for $7k labor for 2 powerwalls. That would be and hourly rate of ~$200 per hour. Tesla's rate based on the $1600 install cost is ~$50 per hour.
I don't know the local rates for electricians in my area, but it looks like Tesla is subsidizing the cost some by the fact that they are getting the margin on the units themselves (and the crews aren't subcontractors). However, the competitors are clearly taking advantage of the SGIP rebates at this point based on the quotes I got.
HI Az_Rael - I just found this forum and it is great. I had our system installed last weekend in Southern California and our sales rep told me we were unable to get the powerwall at the same time. Had you ordered these a while ago? Also if you don't mind, did they give you any sort of incentive for packaging the power walls with the solar system?
neptune2000
Bi
How log did it take from your original "reservation" with Tesla Energy to actually the day they showed up for installation of the Powerwalls?
We signed up with Tesla 9/22/2017 for both Powerwalls and a solar system. Earliest install date we could get after our permits were approved was yesterday. I did not make a reservation on their website, we worked with a TE consultant directly (as well as getting other bids from other companies).
No incentives for getting both a Powerwall and solar. No one else was offering any incentives for that either - too much demand here due to the SGIP rebate I would guess.
thanks. Our TE consultant is just terrible so I try and avoid him at all costs... We moved pretty quick though with our initial meeting to installation only being about six weeks.
neptune2000
Bi
Wow, six months for Az_Rael and 6 weeks for you. That's a pretty big difference. Was yours just Powerwall and no solar?
Our Powerwall install involved no solar (we already had solar) and our wait was closer to seven months. There were a couple of hiccups in design and permitting, but nothing that added more than a month or so to the wait.
Hopefully, a lead time of only six weeks is a sign that Tesla is successfully ramping up production of Powerwalls! I think interest will increase as more people learn about the product and what it does. In my opinion, it's a good value (with Tesla as the installer) even without the generous SGIP rebates. There's still the federal tax credit of 30% if pairing with a solar PV system.
Hopefully, a lead time of only six weeks is a sign that Tesla is successfully ramping up production of Powerwalls! I think interest will increase as more people learn about the product and what it does. In my opinion, it's a good value (with Tesla as the installer) even without the generous SGIP rebates. There's still the federal tax credit of 30% if pairing with a solar PV system.
Ours was solar without the power wall. I think the power walls are the limiting factor. Our TE said maybe available within the next "few months" whatever that means...
