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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2014

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Again that is the future of the company, that is what was promised. If you subscribe to the school of thought that TSLA is valued correctly based on the execution of these strategies 2-3 years down the line, then the future obviously counts.

I don't. TSLA currently makes 1 product, and 1 product only. They promise they will have more in 1-4 years, but I'm not concerned with that, if you are a short term trader (short term discussions), then you shouldn't be concerned with those things either.

I was about to say that Tesla could not possibly have gone up from $80 to $200+ over the past year if it had not been trading on execution of plans 2-3 years out. then I realized, that's probably why for the last year I've watched "experts" on TV seem perplexed and angry and say "Tesla is overvalued by all Wall Street metrics..." which is utter, nonsense if you are looking at 2-3 years out, but if you don't look 2-3 years out, or by the way various "experts" on TV come across, you cannot even imagine looking 2-3 years out, "it's impossible for this stock to be at $120 let alone $200."

I think Tesla has moved over the past year plus based on people looking at long-term value. some people piled on by chance on a "hot stock" (i.e. going from $215 to $265 in a day or so) but underneath the move core move from $30 to $200+ was a large number of people realizing the value in Tesla's and the high probability of it's slow motion disruption bringing it future earnings to justify it's price.

Now, it seems like the "short term traders" you describe as people who "shouldn't be concerned about those things" (earnings 2-4 years out) are trying to assert that the "crazy" long-term thinkers never should have had their day with the stock and now Tesla is "returning to "normal."" or at least they are trying fervently to convince all of us of this for motives only they know.

Watching some of the CNBC crowd, reading some of the articles, it's almost feels like they were offended that TSLA was not behaving according to "Wall Street's rules."

I think 2-3 years out has mattered and continues to matter for Tesla's valuation today... I think Tesla has an exceedingly rare clear path to growth that people can and have seen that makes 2-3, 5, even 10 years reasonable time frames to model valuations. Those who like to play the Wall Street game may be trying to rattle everyone's cages, that "you can't do this,", but we can, we have, and yesterday's call only made the probability of those valuations higher, cage rattling notwithstanding.
 
The one thing I do not like in the conference call is the Panasonic letter of intent. If I remember my board room 101 correctly. Panasonic now holds the position of power. It was Elon's mistake in using an announcement that the gigafactory will have multiple partners to try and force Panasonic to sign on. Now that the dust has cleared and there's only Panasonic. They state the terms. This letter of intent is an asian's way of saying. Yes you have permission to go ahead and announce whatever you want. BUT, nothing is real until we say so.

I noticed this as well. Why the **** would you tell everyone that you have one girlfriend, but in case she isn't good enough you'll get more.
 
Yeah, but not by much and not enough that it couldn't be spun negative in the headlines. And the new things were mostly long-term things that are awesome, but won't affect Q2 performance.

Headlines can find a way to spin anything negative. Yes, the media needs a story, and maybe the story this month or this week or whatever is about how bad tesla is doing, just how it was in October or whenever, but when they tire of that story, that's where 120->265 comes from

But the fact of the matter is that it was a beat, and it was positive.
 
But the fact of the matter is that it was a beat, and it was positive.

The fact of the matter, is that it wasn't a beat, nor was it positive. Or at least it isn't perceived by traders as either. We can try to convince people different, but by the time we make any ground Q2 will be here.

We can only really decide what to do next based of off what has happened, not what should have.

Today's price action reflects a TON of speculation and short term thinking (aka me) going on. It's futile to fight against it really, only accept that a large portion of TSLA traders will cause greatly exaggerated reactions to news.

TSLA's success has drawn us like moths to the porch light :redface:.
 
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The fact of the matter, is that it wasn't a beat, nor was it positive. Or at least it isn't perceived by traders as either. We can try to convince people different, but by the time we make any ground Q2 will be here.

We can only really decide what to do next based of off what has happened, not what should have.

Agreed. There was talk of a whisper number of 15 cents.
 
Short or long term, I think it's sad people forget the fundamental purpose of the markets. We bear risk and give our money to these companies to execute their future plans and they will return value to us+More when they do. I don't mind it dipping a bit as long as it staggers upwards (granted, it's hard to stomach) and I hate that we finally have a company doing something right, but everyone is against it. This time last year all of is were complaining about it keeping at $50 and hitting 80...

I would've booked some profits. It of
I did, I would have to pay Uncle Sam some advanced taxes, so I waited.
 
The fact of the matter, is that it wasn't a beat, nor was it positive.

This is complete and utter nonsense. This is why I don't think you read the earnings. It's an **actual fact**, like a real actual factual statement, which is completely 100% unassailable in this actual real reality that we're living in and not some fantasy world, that Tesla beat consensus and beat guidance by every numerical measure. These are numbers and you can't just make things up. Stop calling things facts which are not facts.
 
This is complete and utter nonsense. This is why I don't think you read the earnings. It's an **actual fact**, like a real actual factual statement, which is completely 100% unassailable in this actual real reality that we're living in and not some fantasy world, that Tesla beat consensus and beat guidance by every numerical measure. These are numbers and you can't just make things up. Stop calling things facts which are not facts.

Oh, you know what I meant. There is no point getting tangled in semantics. We know they beat, even in the numbers. They just didn't beat their usual beats, and given Q4's success that was pretty hard to do.

They usually even beat deliveries by 10-15%, Q3 it was only 10% even. This quarter it was .8%.

Next quarter will no doubt be another Q4 as all the cars in transit in Q1 2014 will have been sold in Q2 2014

- - - Updated - - -

On another note, if I had to trade right now based on yahoos headlines I'd be selling like a madman.


 
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Not doubt. I wont argue that TSLA's value will increase in the future. And yeah, there is SOME future value included in the price. But just because you promise a new factory that wont begin to produce anything in 3-4 more years your stock shouldn't reflect a 25% increase.

A stock's price should be entirely based on estimated future value and profits. The past value is irrelevant. Someone willing to buy shares today at the market price will not benefit from past profits, but will benefit from future profits. Of course future profits are unknown. Estimating them is based on many factors, and high among those are management's plans and abilities. The present value of future profits and worth of a company are based on a discounting method many of us learned in school. The simplest example is a zero-coupon bond bought at a discount from the price one will receive at maturity. In a low interest rate environment like today, that discount from future value can be quite modest.
 
A stock's price should be entirely based on estimated future value and profits. The past value is irrelevant. Someone willing to buy shares today at the market price will not benefit from past profits, but will benefit from future profits. Of course future profits are unknown. Estimating them is based on many factors, and high among those are management's plans and abilities. The present value of future profits and worth of a company are based on a discounting method many of us learned in school. The simplest example is a zero-coupon bond bought at a discount from the price one will receive at maturity. In a low interest rate environment like today, that discount from future value can be quite modest.

Again, you are correct on every point. But that future value is significantly smaller to me because I don't think 2-3 years in the future for a stock. Anything can happen in 2-3 years outside of a companies control to wreck those plans. I have trouble enough seeing if a companies plans succeeded 1 quarter ahead, let alone 2-3 years.

And that is the fundamental difference I suppose between a long and a short. Today's results just show that there are more people trading TSLA that think short term as opposed to long term. Or at least a not insignificant amount.
 
I noticed this as well. Why the **** would you tell everyone that you have one girlfriend, but in case she isn't good enough you'll get more.
Sometimes LOI is issued to speed up the process. The negotiations between parties in a complex deal take time, and peripheral partners, say banks, need LOI to start their cumbersome process to support the deal, rather than wait for the final agreement.
 
It is hard for me to believe that people who thought the earnings call was mediocre were really listening. Or maybe they have not been following Tesla long enough to Know that Elon tells the truth as he sees it.

Cwin ... you say that you need to see the Model X being produced but in reality more Model S's are better. Until they can actually meet the current demand it makes no since to start producing Model X's. They will earn more per Model S at launch then the amount they earn per Model X ... at least I a am assuming that.

I am not sure if people missed it or are just discounting it as CEO speak but did anyone catch that Elon implied that the Freemont factory will be full in 3 to 4 years?

I am not sure how long it will take for the stock to recover but this has been the best earnings call we have had in a long time for me. (not for my account obviously)

And congrats Citizen T on those sick Leaps you picked up. Once again I find myself kicking myself for buying much too soon and having no money left to put in at the bottom. Next time I am shopping I might message you to see if its too soon :)
 
This is complete and utter nonsense. This is why I don't think you read the earnings. It's an **actual fact**, like a real actual factual statement, which is completely 100% unassailable in this actual real reality that we're living in and not some fantasy world, that Tesla beat consensus and beat guidance by every numerical measure. These are numbers and you can't just make things up. Stop calling things facts which are not facts.

Agree. Cwin please stop pretending to not being a long term and short term short.
 
I am not sure if people missed it or are just discounting it as CEO speak but did anyone catch that Elon implied that the Freemont factory will be full in 3 to 4 years?

There have been stories on "inside EVs" that Tesla is already using %50 of the Fremont plant, that's one reason they have Lathrop (we assume), move out equipment that isn't essential for vehicle assembly.
 
After Cwin's multiple posts overnight I've better understood the short position. If people really discount anything happening in a couple of years, then indeed Tesla shouldn't be worth the price it's at. Probably should be around where it was a bit more than a year ago. However what this means is that those of us who do see the Tesla long term plan and the execution probability as high can make a lot of money based off of that.

To me the Q1 call was filled with positive news. I couldn't care less if Tesla delivered 6400 or 7000 cars. I would have been disturbed to see 6000 cars as that would have been below Teslas guidance and would indicate something happened. I don't also care too much if Q2 guidance was 8k or 9k cars, getting somewhere in that region was on track of current expected execution speed as per normal and optimal timelines that I have figured out in my head for the company. I do expect a guidance jump for Q3 though.

Now what does matter with Tesla is that they can increase their lead against the competition and how the G3 planning is going as that is where the massive disruption will come from and massive cash flows that will reflect in the stock price sooner or later (depending on the horizon of the investors with money who move the stock).

And the various possible future paths got constrained a lot more towards the optimal and very optimistic trajectories. I was seriously surprised to hear the GF ground breaking to happen already next month with the second site following in a month or two after that. This means that the probability of the GF producing batterypacks in 2017 is now far more realistic than it was 3 months ago (and it existed only as a risk 6 months ago when we only knew that there aren't enough cells in the world for Gen-III, but no plans of Tesla to alleviate it pre-Q3 ER). The fact that Tesla is on-target to build out the factory (and that they are planning to continue building multiple other ones) means that in three years time Tesla will have purchase agreements to about 70-75% of global lithium ion battery production (factory output of cells is 35GWh, which is more than total global production now, and Tesla expects to build 50GWh packs meaning full GF production + 15GWh from gloabal other sources meaning about three quarters of global production). Any competitor who wants to really sell EV's with bigger range and high volume needs to build a gigafactory themselves as there will not be enough supply beyond Tesla. Any month that passes now without another manufacturer planning to build a battery factory means the moat increases between Tesla and the competition.

The second important part is that Tesla did mention at some point in the spring that they would expand hard on superchargers and indicated ~100 in EU this year. The buildout didn't follow (even though they did mention that they will be using the early spring to build the necessary chargers in factory while the construction work is delayed due to weather), but now in the shareholder letter they clearly state 200 new superchargers this year. This is tripling the total count and far far more importantly it makes an exceptional coverage of territory. Now this would be mostly looked at by short term traders as huge cost and some advantage for new buyers, but what this really means is that the buildout is following a very aggressive path and if it keeps going at about 200 / year pace until G3 release, then we have a globally available network that is proprietary to Tesla. This is one of the two HUGE moats that Tesla is building against competition. Yes, BMW and others rely on CCS standard and regulations hoping that they will be built out in time, but I doubt seriously that this will happen. And even if it does, those are standards based and therefore usable by Teslas as well by a simple adapter if Tesla chooses to make on. The difference of supercharged driving vs not is something that someone who doesn't own a Model S just doesn't fully appreciate. I just did last weekend a 950km roadtrip. This region where I live has 0 superchargers. Going from home I drove 425km and did a 1h charge on 3x16A in Riga. On the return trip I had to do 480km straight and that required a 3h charge in Pärnu (using a public charger). Now if there had been a supercharger somewhere between Pärnu and Riga I would have had to stop for 4 minutes going there and 12 minutes coming back. THAT is a huge difference and makes an electric car equivalent to a gasoline car on long distance travel eliminating completely the main argument of EV opponents of large charge times.

I'm not at all worried about R&D and CapEx expansion as long as it goes towards securing the infrastructure for Gen-III and bringing the research earlier. If the costs balloon out of hand (i.e. per service center/supercharger costs start to go up, R&D is ballooning without any results or explanations given), then we might be worried that they might run into a state where they cannot meet the expansion from funds they gain from car sales and what they can get from the stock market. But this is not the case right now.

And there were tons of confirmations of what we already knew: there is no demand issue. The increase from $163M to $198M in reservations and the multiple statements from shareholder letter and Elon on the CC do tell me that it's highly likely that Tesla will get the cash flow they have planned for (i.e. they sell all cars that they can produce) for the next couple of years at least. And as they know how they plan to expand production they will know how much they can count on cash flow from car sales.

So for me the conference call was full of extremely promising news that certainly constrained the possible futures, mostly eliminating some of the gloom scenarios and making the probabilities of the optimistic paths more likely. So if I had any free cash I'd be buying more shares / LEAPs from here.

Now I've never really thought of this, but the words being long or being short do somehow tell me also the timeframe that people look at :) If you only look at the short timeframe, then it's far more likely you could be short a stock. You have to have the vision and trust of future execution to be long. And in case of Tesla I cannot see too many risks remaining that would impact Tesla hard. Even a global recession isn't too hard at this point in time because Tesla is selling so few cars to a demography that keeps buying cars even during recessions that I think they could sell all their produced cars even if we hit a slump for a year or two. They may have to tune down the exponential expansion plans a bit, but that's about the total impact it will have. It may in turn give them excellent buying opportunities like they got the NUMMI plant for peanuts :)

Overall I think Q2 ER will make some short term traders happy as they'll see a substantial increase in cars delivered guidance for Q3 (unless they forget the 10 days shutdown of factory that will remove about 1500 cars from production). But the EPS charts will be badly off. The reason being that Tesla will highly expand cap-ex on gigafactory and second line and that will impact profitability so I'm not 100% sure how the stock will behave over the next year knowing how shortsighted the average Wall str investor is...
 
Thank you for your excellent post Mario. Your post reflects my thinking and views on Tesla to a high degree. Shorts are happy at the moment as the stock is diving. Shorts are convinced that they are correct in their thesis that TSLA is overvalued almost to the same degree that we longs are convinced that we are correct in our thesis about TSLA.

The only risk that I see with Tesla MC going forward is their ability to scale up their manufacturing. Scaling up manufacturing may be very difficult, however it is far easier than what this amazing company has already achieved.

Tesla will be able to sell all the cars they can make as the competition is asleep at their own peril. So far I fell reassured by the latest conference call that Tesla MC is on track with their expansion plans.
 
one intersting observation in terms of the "big buyers" holdings I found at Morningstar.
Namely, when you take a look at the recent breakdowns of concentraded shareholders, you will discover the following:

as of 05/08/2014 (yesterday, right?)
First Trust Green Energy ETF 61,380 shs
First Trust Global Auto ETF 9,747 shs
Market Vectors ETF 47,414 shs
QQQ DWA ETF 8,240 shs

as of 04/30/2014
Allianz GI Tech Inst. Fund 263'100 shs
and so on.

The biggest shareholders are still Fidelity, Baillie Gifford, Vanguard, Blackrock, GS, JPM, Merrill, State Street...even though the database shows mostly 12/31/2013 and some selling activities happened as of 03/31 this year.
How their holdings will change in the near future will be interesting to watch.

http://investors.morningstar.com/ow...SLA&region=usa&culture=en-US&ownerCountry=USA
 
And congrats Citizen T on those sick Leaps you picked up. Once again I find myself kicking myself for buying much too soon and having no money left to put in at the bottom. Next time I am shopping I might message you to see if its too soon :)

Thanks. I'm actually hoping for one final panic selloff so I can double down. Trying to be patient with my cash, but it is hard.
 
J15 LEAPS are pretty cheap now. I paid $18 a contract for my $300 strike J15 LEAPS when the TSLA was at ~$220. For $18, you can get a $215 J15 now.

I don't recall the IV being particularly high when I bought before, but the premium right now seems very reasonable. Too bad all my money is already in the 300 strikes.
 
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