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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2016

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Wouldn't exercising his options reduce that value of the shares everyone else is holding? Maybe he didn't want that to happen? (Could there be a new stock offering soon an he want so keep his % share in the company and rather get options than buying shares at the point?)


This seems absolutely impossible. Aren't the at 25% with just luxury sedans? How is that number supposed to go up with the Model 3?

Exercising means he exercise the right to buy the shares at $6.5. It reduces the value of shares everyone else is holding if he sells. If he holds, it is a neutral move since he is not going to sell his shares as he have stated. So it will only happen when mission is accomplished or he gets a margin call. When the 2nd scenario happens, it'll mean his own personal bankruptcy as well.
 
Exercising means he exercise the right to buy the shares at $6.5. It reduces the value of shares everyone else is holding if he sells. If he holds, it is a neutral move since he is not going to sell his shares as he have stated. So it will only happen when mission is accomplished or he gets a margin call. When the 2nd scenario happens, it'll mean his own personal bankruptcy as well.
Yeah, value might be a bit misleading. I meant that it would also hurt when looking at metrics like Earnings per share.


Less expensive batteries.
That would only work if they are the only company who manage to bring battery prices down, otherwise the competition would pressure those margins.
 
Thanks chickensevil, our posts crossed in cyberspace.

That said, Elon is going out of his way to give signals of confidence in Tesla by paying cash for the taxes on his exercised options and by Tweeting that he will be the last to sell shares. Those two activities came within an hour or two of each other, and so one should not suppose coincidence. Now... does this show of confidence mean that the ER is going to be good or not so good? I really can't say because Elon might show his personal confidence in the company if he knew the ER was going to be less than rosy. The fact that he paid $50 Million in cash for the taxes, rather than selling shares, strikes me as bullish, however. Even with billionaires, $50 million is not chump change.

The tweet is from 2013.
 
I have a few thoughts on this [some good thoughts....]

The optimum thing for Tesla is that the Gigafactory is a pure cost centre, 100% vertically integrated, with nobody pulling out profits at the cell manufacturing step, all profits pulled at the final value add step: Finished cars, finished storage products.

Therefore the natural way to sell this opportunity to a partner like Panasonic would be to issue Panasonic a load of TSLA shares and have them take their profits on those shares. But that isn't apparently what is happening here. Panasonic apparently is willing to put $1.6 billion directly into the Gigafactory plus a load of IP and market leverage to get the job done - and the aim of that job is disproportionately in Tesla's interests and that is to reduce the cost of the very product Panasonic makes money from selling. It's mind-blowing. Deal of the century is I think a literal description here.

I think, and I am reasonably confident in this, that the cell chemistry is Tesla's IP, not Panasonic's, at the very least it is a proprietary Panasonic / Tesla collaboration on the chemistry that Panasonic is not free to sell to third parties. Same with the cell design - on the latter point Tesla has patents, open source yes, but it is proof positive of Tesla IP at the cell level. Tesla has the ability to use Samsung and LG to produce Tesla-specified cells.

While I get the idea you presented that Panasonic may see an opportunity to trade margins for volume it does not in my mind fully explain Panasonic conceding control of its own destiny implicit to retaining a suppler / customer relationship. Why not just insist Tesla invests in Panasonic battery capacity expansion in return for passing on a percentage of cost savings realized.

Tesla has obviously demonstrated to Panasonic that Tesla is the world's largest battery customer and that its plans to become much bigger are credible. No other car maker can prove that to itself or its shareholders let alone to a large cell maker. Not even Nissan or Toyota.

Tesla could make the credible threat that it would just partner with Samsung or LG on the Gigafactory if Panasonic did not cooperate and Tesla created credible leverage by raising Gigafactory funding independently of securing a battery partner.

But still, why do it. That threat posture only applies to a Tesla promise to max-out Panasonic Japan's capacity and the possibility of withdrawing that custom. The natural response from Panasonic to a pure threat posture would be to halt supply now until Tesla backed off because Tesla cannot sell anything without Panasonic's cooperation at present and even a temporary stand-off with Panasonic right now would be catastrophic for Tesla. This by the way is the standard of leverage battery suppliers have with the remainder of the auto industry and giving up leverage like this is not something any competent negotiator gives up lightly.

There must be a carrot in there somewhere and as previously described, the last place to look ought to be extracting profits at the cell manufacturing level because that just hurts the entire process including ongoing competitive advantage and attainable growth rate.

My view on this, and still this is a long shot, is that the really big carrot in this deal is not selling more cells but selling more Gigafactories - whereby Panasonic would be a natural lead contractor to national Gigafactories the world over.

This is a very very real carrot, but one hell of a sales job to get anyone to see an opportunity that large and that many chess moves away that needs to pass through a valley of death period of giving up control as a profit center making cells whether that global Gigafactory contractor opportunity materializes or not.

Perhaps I underestimate the Japanese - they do have a habit of thinking in chunks of 20 years or more and less in the here and now more typical of the West. The bottom line here is that this Gigafactory deal is far and away the most significant and the most brilliant deal I have ever heard of.
 
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Perhaps I underestimate the Japanese - they do have a habit of thinking in chunks of 20 years or more and less in the here and now more typical of the West.

With all due respect, it is very difficult to underestimate the Japanese or give them credit for long term thinking and planning post Fukushima. Unfortunately for everyone on the globe, they are just like the rest of us. Now if you want to give Panasonic and its specific leadership compliment and credit for foresight, then please go ahead.
 
The optimum thing for Tesla is that the Gigafactory is a pure cost centre, 100% vertically integrated, with nobody pulling out profits at the cell manufacturing step, all profits pulled at the final value add step: Finished cars, finished storage products.

Therefore the natural way to sell this opportunity to a partner like Panasonic would be to issue Panasonic a load of TSLA shares and have them take their profits on those shares. But that isn't apparently what is happening here. Panasonic apparently is willing to put $1.6 billion directly into the Gigafactory plus a load of IP and market leverage to get the job done - and the aim of that job is disproportionately in Tesla's interests and that is to reduce the cost of the very product Panasonic makes money from selling. It's mind-blowing. Deal of the century is I think a literal description here.

I think, and I am reasonably confident in this, that the cell chemistry is Tesla's IP, not Panasonic's, at the very least it is a proprietary Panasonic / Tesla collaboration on the chemistry that Panasonic is not free to sell to third parties. Same with the cell design - on the latter point Tesla has patents, open source yes, but it is proof positive of Tesla IP at the cell level. Tesla has the ability to use Samsung and LG to produce Tesla-specified cells.

While I get the idea you presented that Panasonic may see an opportunity to trade margins for volume it does not in my mind fully explain Panasonic conceding control of its own destiny implicit to retaining a suppler / customer relationship. Why not just insist Tesla invests in Panasonic battery capacity expansion in return for passing on a percentage of cost savings realized.

Tesla has obviously demonstrated to Panasonic that Tesla is the world's largest battery customer and that its plans to become much bigger are credible. No other car maker can prove that to itself or its shareholders let alone to a large cell maker. Not even Nissan or Toyota.

Tesla could make the credible threat that it would just partner with Samsung or LG on the Gigafactory if Panasonic did not cooperate and Tesla created credible leverage by raising Gigafactory funding independently of securing a battery partner.

But still, why do it. That threat posture only applies to a Tesla promise to max-out Panasonic Japan's capacity and the possibility of withdrawing that custom. The natural response from Panasonic to a pure threat posture would be to halt supply now until Tesla backed off because Tesla cannot sell anything without Panasonic's cooperation at present and even a temporary stand-off with Panasonic right now would be catastrophic for Tesla. This by the way is the standard of leverage battery suppliers have with the remainder of the auto industry and giving up leverage like this is not something any competent negotiator gives up lightly.

There must be a carrot in there somewhere and as previously described, the last place to look ought to be extracting profits at the cell manufacturing level because that just hurts the entire process including ongoing competitive advantage and attainable growth rate.

My view on this, and still this is a long shot, is that the really big carrot in this deal is not selling more cells but selling more Gigafactories - whereby Panasonic would be a natural lead contractor to national Gigafactories the world over.

This is a very very real carrot, but one hell of a sales job to get anyone to see an opportunity that large and that many chess moves away that needs to pass through a valley of death period of giving up control as a profit center making cells whether that global Gigafactory contractor opportunity materializes or not.

Perhaps I underestimate the Japanese - they do have a habit of thinking in chunks of 20 years or more and less in the here and now more typical of the West.


Does anyone know the nature of this deal at all? I always got the impression that TM was just building a shell, Panasonic was building a factory-within-a-factory and selling cells to TM. based on that, TM are the suckers because they aren't really buying anything, and short of an aggressive pricing contract Panasonic still has all the pricing power. I have always just shrugged and observed that without knowing what the contracts say we cannot know. I *really* wish we had better clarity on the nature of the relationship.
 
The total as posted above was 6,711,972. half was given to him based on him just being there, 1/4 of that vested immediately, and then the remaining 1/36 over the span of 3 years. The other half of that was based on performance milestones broken into 4 metrics that related to the design and production of the Model S.
FWIW I found this in the 2013 annual report in the section about the 2009 grant:
Through December 31, 2013, all performance milestones were achieved. Stock-based compensation expense related to this grant to our CEO was $0.4 million, $4.2 million and $6.3 million for the years ended December 31, 2013, 2012 and 2011, respectively.
 
Thanks chickensevil, our posts crossed in cyberspace.

That said, Elon is going out of his way to give signals of confidence in Tesla by paying cash for the taxes on his exercised options and by Tweeting that he will be the last to sell shares. Those two activities came within an hour or two of each other, and so one should not suppose coincidence. Now... does this show of confidence mean that the ER is going to be good or not so good? I really can't say because Elon might show his personal confidence in the company if he knew the ER was going to be less than rosy. The fact that he paid $50 Million in cash for the taxes, rather than selling shares, strikes me as bullish, however. Even with billionaires, $50 million is not chump change.

As mentioned its an old tweet & cash he uses is borrowed from Goldman Sachs & Morgan Stanley, so using this "cash" can be spun in a not so positive manner if one so chooses depending on their bias when viewing his participation in secondaries or this alleged tax payment.


Mr. Musk borrowed funds from affiliates of certain of our underwriters and has pledged shares of our common stock to secure these borrowings. The forced sale of these shares pursuant to a margin call could cause our stock price to decline and negatively impact our business.
Beginning in June 2011, Goldman Sachs Bank USA, an affiliate of Goldman, Sachs & Co., has made extensions of credit in the aggregate amount of $275 million to Elon Musk and the Elon Musk Revocable Trust dated July 22, 2003, or the Trust, a portion of which Mr. Musk used to purchase shares of our common stock in our public offering in May 2013 and private placements in June 2011 and June 2013. Mr. Musk will pay the purchase price for up to the 83,974 shares of our common stock he has indicated a preliminary interest in purchasing in this offering with a portion of the existing loan from Goldman Sachs Bank USA. Interest on the loan accrues at market rates. Goldman Sachs Bank USA received customary fees and expense reimbursements in connection with these loans. As a regulated entity, Goldman Sachs Bank USA makes decisions regarding making and managing its loans independent of Goldman, Sachs & Co. Mr. Musk and Goldman Sachs Bank USA have a long-standing relationship of almost a decade. In addition, Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC, an affiliate of Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC, has made a loan to Mr. Musk in the aggregate amount of $200 million. Interest on this loan accrues at market rates. Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC received customary fees and expense reimbursements in connection with this loan.
We are not a party to these loans, which are full recourse against Mr. Musk and the Trust and are secured by pledges of a portion of the Tesla common stock currently owned by Mr. Musk and the Trust and other shares of capital stock of unrelated entities owned by Mr. Musk and the Trust.
If the price of our common stock declines, Mr. Musk may be forced by one or more of the banking institutions to provide additional collateral for the loans or to sell shares of Tesla common stock in order
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000119312515288963/d84889d424b5.htm
 
As mentioned its an old tweet & cash he uses is borrowed from Goldman Sachs & Morgan Stanley, so using this "cash" can be spun in a not so positive manner if one so chooses depending on their bias when viewing his participation in secondaries or this alleged tax payment.



http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000119312515288963/d84889d424b5.htm

It isn't all borrowed funds, but yes. But how is that any different from people buying anything else on margin?
 
Back to today's form 4 it clearly states he owns at least 2.8 million more options that expire in December. So he could simply have a plan to exercise a certain amount each month. Maybe some will be used to pay taxes and he is thinking the stock price will be higher by the end of the year or maybe he is just going to pay the taxes on all of it. But it is always good to see the CEO not cashing in options.
 
With all due respect, it is very difficult to underestimate the Japanese or give them credit for long term thinking and planning post Fukushima. Unfortunately for everyone on the globe, they are just like the rest of us. Now if you want to give Panasonic and its specific leadership compliment and credit for foresight, then please go ahead.

Honestly it strains my credulity to imagine that Panasonic has the management foresight invest in the very big picture I described above. My opinion is that Tesla has out negotiated them with a feat of brilliance I cannot fully comprehend.

In my very early years in business - developing and installing free-space optical data links for nuclear power stations, I received a back-handed compliment from a much older partner in the business after we won a contract with Hinkley Point A in the UK by showing up with a metal case with nothing in it and got them to pay for developing the contents that we then installed on time as promised to the client's full satisfaction.

He said: 'You used the tactics of a con trick and then delivered the results'.

I think Panasonic will do great setting up Gigafactories with Tesla all over the world but I suspect something like this is at the root of it.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks chickensevil, our posts crossed in cyberspace.

That said, Elon is going out of his way to give signals of confidence in Tesla by paying cash for the taxes on his exercised options .............. The fact that he paid $50 Million in cash for the taxes, rather than selling shares, strikes me as bullish, however. Even with billionaires, $50 million is not chump change.

Thanks for this observation.

What I think it means if it means anything is that Musk is calling a bottom. The reason I think that is because he must pay taxes on the difference between $6 ish and $190 ish at present. If he waits until TSLA is deep into $250+ territory again than he'd be paying taxes on the difference between $6 and $250+ Hence if it TSLA was at $250 it would cost him $66 million in taxes when converting now has saved him personally a cool $16 million.

I thought there was a 25% chance that he'd buy the dip but this will do just as well.
 
Does anyone know the nature of this deal at all? I always got the impression that TM was just building a shell, Panasonic was building a factory-within-a-factory and selling cells to TM. based on that, TM are the suckers because they aren't really buying anything, and short of an aggressive pricing contract Panasonic still has all the pricing power. I have always just shrugged and observed that without knowing what the contracts say we cannot know. I *really* wish we had better clarity on the nature of the relationship.

I don't think anyone does in detail but what we do know is Tesla is the one driving the content of each cell (picking chemistry) and at least some contracts with 3rd party suppliers. Given how much of Tesla's motto is to build their own stuff I'd expect them to be in the driver's seat and Panasonic only doing stuff they're really experts on, like supplying and fine-tuning equipment. Gigafactory as a product, would anyone even begin to think Panasonic originated that? Is there any chance in hell the whole factory as product is not under as much Tesla's control as was possible?
 
Wasn't it explained once along the lines that Panasonic and other partners are the tenants, while Tesla is the landlord?

True, but that is to trivialize what is happening here to the point of missing something utterly incredible.

This thing defies all known laws of supply and demand. Here comes Tesla with a demand for batteries projected to exceeding the world's supply. Does the price of batteries go through the roof? No. The suppliers rush in to join a customer-led project and actually commit their own resources to drive the cost down.

This is the most stunning display of first mover advantage on a grand scale in the all-time history of commerce.
 
I think you need to go visit the Model X subforum and the threads there. Lots of pictures of ModelXs on trucks, at service centers and being delivered even in the last 3+ weeks where you say there is no evidence.

I took Delivery of my Sig X 805 about 1 week ago and got a special factory tour that day with another couple also picking up their X.
i will not be selling any of my shares
 
Therefore the natural way to sell this opportunity to a partner like Panasonic would be to issue Panasonic a load of TSLA shares and have them take their profits on those shares. But that isn't apparently what is happening here. Panasonic apparently is willing to put $1.6 billion directly into the Gigafactory plus a load of IP and market leverage to get the job done - and the aim of that job is disproportionately in Tesla's interests and that is to reduce the cost of the very product Panasonic makes money from selling. It's mind-blowing. Deal of the century is I think a literal description here.

I don't find this surprising, but I think I have a bit more info on this. I've read somewhere awhile ago interview with Panasonic CEO, where he was explaining how Japan's industry is stagnant and way too risk averse, and how he sees their relationship with Tesla as one of the ways to break cultural barriers. There was a lot more, but what I remember as a conclusion is that Panasonic decided to bet on Tesla as a way to elevate themselves, and grow into much different role. If I can offer an image, this reminds me of Tesla as a group leader that's tiny, and Panasonic big stupid Muscle behind that asks 'who do I do now boss, who do I beat?". Relationship is mutually beneficial.
CEO also commented that they haven't yet committed 1.6B at the time, but only 320M, and that rest will come if everything is ok.

Clearly, I believe Pan CEO is visionary of a sort, even if that's just enough to see Tesla as a leader and 15 GFs in the future. However, Panasonic is and will be careful with its money and will deploy it as long as Tesla is growing their production.

Few more thoughts: I'm sure Panasonic will be extracting decent profit from GF, even-though smaller than what they could do from Japan. It is also in Tesla's business interest to have Panasonic make some money - they need big muscle for a long play, and success is easier when you have friends and not only enemies. Also, the bounty is big enough that grabbing marketshare is first priority and fighting over few percents here or there is less relevant. Tesla wants Panasonic to have profits, so that shareholders and Board of Directors allow CEO to continue financing new GFs. You know they will need 'staggering' amounts of money? Well, better if someone else is raising some of that too. Tesla needs to change world, not make 100% profit of the whole e-car enterprise. Finally, in the spirit of changing the world, maximum attack speed is all important, as this will scare the rest of the industry to start working on electrification.

Germans are already on it, since Tesla started eating their lunch in 7 series class. Porsche decided to spend 1B to produce E-Mission(?), and negotiated salary cuts with workers for it(?) That's how much they're scared. Of course, the larger the company, the more they fumble, so it will take awhile for big ones to realize this is not just the threat, but mortal threat, as you described well.

In any case, race for second place has started.
 
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Tesla still has ~1.3B cells to purchase from Panasonic according to the old contract. When will those be exhausted? I think, the GF based pricing kicks in after that. Just my guess; no proof.
Tesla signs deal for 2 BILLION battery cells from Panasonic, enough to quintuple EV production : TreeHugger

Musk buys $5 million SolarCity shares - NASDAQ.com
We should recall, that Musk also bought $5 mil of SCTY at $40 last August and $20 mil of TSLA @$238 (or was it 242?). Those buys didn't turn out to be bullish signs. I have 2 simple questions. May be someone can answer (thanks in advance).
1. Are we sure Elon already paid the $50M in taxes? Isn't the first estimated tax payment for 2016 on April 18th this year?
2. What happens if he exercises the 6.7M shares in 2016? That's like 3.3M TSLA shares in taxes. Does he have enough money from Goldman loan to pay the taxes in cash? Or will he be forced to sell 3.3M TSLA shares this year just to pay the taxes?
 
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