Shorter range than expected?

[LuckyRT13]

Hi all, newbie 2022 Model 3 owner here. We always have our M3 fully charged by morning the next day. Full charge is 80% (approx 280 miles) for daily driving. My wife did a lot of driving today (mostly freeway and some city) and when she was all done, I looked at the Tesla App and I saw her battery was down to 20% (60 miles). I google mapped her routes and total mileage driven was approximately 157 miles.

Is this normal drain? I expected to be more battery percentage left, only driving 157 total miles. I know there are other factors that can lead to more drain but is this normal? No hills mostly flat freeway and city streets. Wifey drives 70-75MPH. The car is only 6 months old.

Thank you for help if there is an issue or its just normal.

 

[jjrandorin]

I was under the understanding that the rated miles is from 100% to 0%. That would give you approximately 224 miles.

It is, and at 70-75MPH, with stops, that sounds about right, yes.

 

[roblab]

Totally normal. You didn't really check it on your Benz because the range was plenty, and there is a gas station on every corner. Now your range is less, and charging is less abundant (although in California you are better off than most) so you are more worried about it. All normal stuff as is the range you are seeing.

One HUGE difference is that now there's a "gas" station in every garage, no matter what state you live in. I top up every night. My cars are full (400 miles and 325 miles of range) every morning, and I NEVER drive the four miles to the gas station, nor do I ever do oil and filter changes anymore. Some things are easy to get used to.

 

[3sr+buyer]

Yes you are correct I didn’t pay attention to it then with the gas car.

It would not be surprising if she got worse economy than the EPA rating in the previous car.

I got better than the EPA rating in most previous cars, and still do in the Model 3.

What I would suggest for a prospective EV buyer is that they consider their economy relative to the EPA economy in their current and previous cars as a means of predicting where their economy and range will be with an EV. But make a few adjustments:

• Consider city and highway economy separately, not as a combined economy, since EVs and ICEVs have different relative economy in city and highway driving.
• If you use a lot of cabin heat, be aware that while it is free in ICEVs, it is not free in EVs (especially if the EV uses resistance heating rather than a heat pump).

 

[Braumin]

It would not be surprising if she got worse economy than the EPA rating in the previous car.

I got better than the EPA rating in most previous cars, and still do in the Model 3.

What I would suggest for a prospective EV buyer is that they consider their economy relative to the EPA economy in their current and previous cars as a means of predicting where their economy and range will be with an EV. But make a few adjustments:

• Consider city and highway economy separately, not as a combined economy, since EVs and ICEVs have different relative economy in city and highway driving.
• If you use a lot of cabin heat, be aware that while it is free in ICEVs, it is not free in EVs (especially if the EV uses resistance heating rather than a heat pump).

Great point about the highway/city and another point is that in a gas car, highway mileage is usually your best fuel economy because they are so inefficient in the city. In an EV it is the opposite. Drag causes most of your losses so highway is much LOWER than city driving. It is a flip on expectations that I am sure many buyers are not expecting or aware of.

 

[LuckyRT13]

It would not be surprising if she got worse economy than the EPA rating in the previous car.

I got better than the EPA rating in most previous cars, and still do in the Model 3.

What I would suggest for a prospective EV buyer is that they consider their economy relative to the EPA economy in their current and previous cars as a means of predicting where their economy and range will be with an EV. But make a few adjustments:

• Consider city and highway economy separately, not as a combined economy, since EVs and ICEVs have different relative economy in city and highway driving.
• If you use a lot of cabin heat, be aware that while it is free in ICEVs, it is not free in EVs (especially if the EV uses resistance heating rather than a heat pump).

Thank you for the advice.

 

[LuckyRT13]

Great point about the highway/city and another point is that in a gas car, highway mileage is usually your best fuel economy because they are so inefficient in the city. In an EV it is the opposite. Drag causes most of your losses so highway is much LOWER than city driving. It is a flip on expectations that I am sure many buyers are not expecting or aware of.

Yes I am unaware the economy is reversed in EV’s. Thank you for this information.

 

[Jeremy3292]

For an M3 LR in "normal" temperatures with 1 or 2 passengers:

70 mph ~300 mile range
80 mph ~250 mile range

157 miles driven using 60% of battery (80% to 20%) = 262 miles approx range. Seems right to me.

 

[legendsk]

Mine is a 2022 MYLR Dual Motor with (unused) tow hitch.
At 100º F parked in the shade, to keep the cabin at a reasonable 73-75 degrees I have to set the climate control for 69º. The heat pump cycles, so it's not maxed out. I have timed and measured this and established that doing this is equivalent to driving 30 miles per hour. Which means from an energy use standpoint, operating the AC on a nominally hot day while driving 70mph is like driving 100mph without the AC. The wind resistance, tire rolling resistance, elevation increase, etc., all chew off range. As ZenRockGarden
sagely pointed out earlier in this thread, don't lose sight of the fact that your ICE vehicle probably had somewhere between a 15 and 30 gallon tank and had a range of around 400 miles. You may only have a range of 300 miles or so, but you only have the equivalent of a 3 gallon tank. The EV system is so much more efficient that relatively minor uses in the ICE vehicle, AC , wind and tire resistance are much more significant in an EV.

 

[jackmott]

Hi all, newbie 2022 Model 3 owner here. We always have our M3 fully charged by morning the next day. Full charge is 80% (approx 280 miles) for daily driving. My wife did a lot of driving today (mostly freeway and some city) and when she was all done, I looked at the Tesla App and I saw her battery was down to 20% (60 miles). I google mapped her routes and total mileage driven was approximately 157 miles.

Is this normal drain? I expected to be more battery percentage left, only driving 157 total miles. I know there are other factors that can lead to more drain but is this normal? No hills mostly flat freeway and city streets. Wifey drives 70-75MPH. The car is only 6 months old.

Thank you for help if there is an issue or its just normal.

Totally normal. The EPA range is a mix of city and highway driving. Highway driving will be less range.

 

[archae86]

from an energy use standpoint, operating the AC on a nominally hot day while driving 70mph is like driving 100mph without the AC.

Urmm... No. Not close. There is a square-law term in wind resistance vs speed, so the extra energy consumed by going 100 instead of 70 is enormously more than the extra energy consumed by going 50 instead of 20.

I very much doubt the air conditioning in the model 3 running flat out can consume anywhere near the power requirement different between 70 and 100 mph cruising.

I think a recent software release may give specific trip-level numbers for cabin conditioning power vs. propulsion power, or something close to that. Coudl anyone with that release level give us some numbers here?

I'm not actually asking for 100 mph figures (unless you are using a track), but 70 mph with and without A/C would be very interesting.

 

[yesimon]

I very much doubt the air conditioning in the model 3 running flat out can consume anywhere near the power requirement different between 70 and 100 mph cruising.

A/C draws like 5kW max, but probably less (1-3kW) in the steady state, so nothing like 100mph but still significant.


Regardless, any energy usage (like speedy driving, A/C) hammers EV range more than ICE simply because the total amount of energy in a tank of gas is so much greater than an EV battery.

 

[SageBrush]

I was under the understanding that the rated miles is from 100% to 0%. That would give you approximately 224 miles.

157 miles traveled dropped SoC from 80% to 20%, a 60% of battery capacity consumption.
so 100% to 0% SoC is 157/0.6 = 261 miles for wife's travels that day.

I think that part of the issue that Newbs to EVs face is not quite internalizing that claims of range are based on 100% to 0%, but in general owners do not drive that way. A routine practical range is 80% to 20% SoC; or if pre-planned, 90% to 10% SoC. Now, ICE drivers often hit the fueling station with 1/4 tank, but they do fill to full so the their practical range is 75% of advertised range. EV owners will somewhat naturally try 80% to 20%, or 60% of advertised range.

So the range 'hit' is a double whammy: a smaller range to begin with, and then a smaller fractional use of that range. The usual solution is to add energy more frequently in an EV than an ICE. Luckily for people with charging at home, that is often super convenient, albeit a change in habit.

 

[SageBrush]

Regardless, any energy usage (like speedy driving, A/C) hammers EV range more than ICE simply because the total amount of energy in a tank of gas is so much greater than an EV battery.

There is a better reason, explained by thinking this way:

Say an EV consumes 250 Wh/mile is EPA-ish type driving,
While an ICE consumes 1,500 Wh/mile in EPA-ish type driving

Not add on A/C at 2 kW, or about 40 Wh/mile at 50 mph

The EV consumption increases to 290 Wh/mile, so range drops 18%
The ICE consumption increases to 1,540, so range drops 2%

The ICE is an energy hog already, so the A/C is a minor addition

 

[ZenRockGarden]

There is a better reason, explained by thinking this way:

Say an EV consumes 250 Wh/mile is EPA-ish type driving,
While an ICE consumes 1,500 Wh/mile in EPA-ish type driving

Not add on A/C at 2 kW, or about 40 Wh/mile at 50 mph

The EV consumption increases to 290 Wh/mile, so range drops 18%
The ICE consumption increases to 1,540, so range drops 2%

The ICE is an energy hog already, so the A/C is a minor addition

Exactly. The massive inefficiency of the gas engine basically serves to "hide" additional losses from HVAC, Speed, Weather, etc.

 

[Jeremy3292]

EV Efficiency and Range Calculator

Electric vehicle efficiency and range calculator supporting many cars including Tesla, Lucid, Aptera, and more.

www.motormatchup.com

 

[LuckyRT13]

EV Efficiency and Range Calculator

Electric vehicle efficiency and range calculator supporting many cars including Tesla, Lucid, Aptera, and more.

www.motormatchup.com

Awesome website for information, thank you.

 

[legendsk]

Urmm... No. Not close. There is a square-law term in wind resistance vs speed, so the extra energy consumed by going 100 instead of 70 is enormously more than the extra energy consumed by going 50 instead of 20.

I very much doubt the air conditioning in the model 3 running flat out can consume anywhere near the power requirement different between 70 and 100 mph cruising.

I think a recent software release may give specific trip-level numbers for cabin conditioning power vs. propulsion power, or something close to that. Coudl anyone with that release level give us some numbers here?

I'm not actually asking for 100 mph figures (unless you are using a track), but 70 mph with and without A/C would be very interesting.

You're right, thanks for catching my error. Probably can reduce range by 30 mph by only increasing from 70 to 75 or 76. But so many other factors get involved. There are some nice stretches of level road around here, I'll try to get some data on power consumption at different speeds in the next few days.

 

[T4M3]

Hi all, newbie 2022 Model 3 owner here. We always have our M3 fully charged by morning the next day. Full charge is 80% (approx 280 miles) for daily driving. My wife did a lot of driving today (mostly freeway and some city) and when she was all done, I looked at the Tesla App and I saw her battery was down to 20% (60 miles). I google mapped her routes and total mileage driven was approximately 157 miles.

Is this normal drain? I expected to be more battery percentage left, only driving 157 total miles. I know there are other factors that can lead to more drain but is this normal? No hills mostly flat freeway and city streets. Wifey drives 70-75MPH. The car is only 6 months old.

Thank you for help if there is an issue or its just normal.

Just another data point from me: This is based from my driving for about 8 months now. I roughly get 3 miles per 1 percent battery with my mixed highway/city driving. That puts my range with 100% to roughly 300 miles. In your case, for that one data point where you drove 157 miles with 60% battery consumption is a little bit lower but not that much. Also note that with 20% left, it says you have 60 miles range which is inline with my very rough estimate of 3 miles per 1 percent battery power. So with 80% charging, my real-world range estimate is about 240 miles (not the 280 miles as reported by the car).

 

[Darmie]

There are a few other things going on that the car attempts to calculate when it's driving. Unlike a gas car that has EPA rating of 20 MPG, when parked, the car is off and not using fuel where as a Tesla is always on using energy. There is Sentry mode, Battery heating or cooling, cabin protection and other Phantom drain. This skews the number some what. I have a subscription to TeslaFi that helps in showing all the numbers and the vehicle efficiency's.

Not sure if it's been mention yet but displaying percentage is the best way of not fretting over range. When on a trip the nav is going to display your est percentage on arrival and that's usually more accurate than range.

I'll leave you with another though. When we had our 2017 MS and new to tesla, I would do my own highway calculations. Knowing the vehicle is usually only 80% efficient on highway. I would take my range to next stop and multiply by 1.2. 100 miles X 1.2 and add 30 mile buffer for turnaround or construction. If I were to travel 100 miles, I'd charge up to 150 and leave. Now I don't worry much about it and let the car tell me when there is enough charge to continue the trip.

 

[LuckyRT13]

Thank you. It’s good to know my M3 range is normal.