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Shorting Oil, Hedging Tesla

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Yes. Best of all will be that as of now, no new ferries with Diesel will be approved: all local residents would insist on electric ferries to keep their air clean and fresh. It is not even about emissions out at sea but in the harbour. I know that is a bit of a topic down in Copenhagen where the cruise ships are docking...



It's hard to quantify indeed. A simple straight line extrapolation from 2015 / $100 to 2017 / $70 would indicate a $15 drop per year but I think that is too simplistic and most certainly incorrect.

However, I think in our modelling we should be aware of not making the same mistake that IEA and EIA are making: from dropping cost curves for batteries, to inner-city bans on diesel cars, to shifting perceptions about "what is cool", to aggressive EV mandates for China as of 1.1.19 we seem to have a bit of a perfect storm brewing. In short: timing this is impossible. But I venture to guess that in the coming 5 years we will see in oil what we see in coal today (i.e. bankruptcies, declining markets, desperate moves to convince people that "oil is life!" etc.)
The mistake that IEA and other analysts make is that they believe that policies drive markets and technology, but not that technology and markets drive policy. Economically feasible electric ferries is the product of markets and technology. Now that this is an option policy makers will be inclined to set policies that prefer this solution. This, policy is driven by technology and markets. As EVs made critical advances, various policymakers have pursued policies to ban ICE by by certain dates. As electric commercial vehicle products enter the market, I would expect urban policymakers to craft policy that increasingly prefer electric fleets.

Technology -> Markets -> Policy

Along this influence path policy development is a lagging indicator of what is possible. So if you base you forecast on the current state of policy, this already lags what is happening and it ignores how policy will change in the future. Policy makers everywhere want ways to improve air quality and other environmental issues, but many will pull back on policy objectives where the technology is thought to be too limited or too expensive. For example, if you were contemplating a ban on ICE in you country, how would you determine the date? Why 2040 and not 2030? Setting an aggressive date will be met with resistance based on concerns about costs and the arrival of needed technology. Forcing people use more costly and inferior vehicles in 2030 seems more hamfisted than waiting until 2040. On the other hand, if you really want to impact the technology development and markets, a 2030 policy would have more teeth. Personally, I see little value in a 2040 policy because I think market forces will sideline ICE long before 2040. Why write laws for things the market will do anyway? 2030, however, is more ambitious and may push ahead of current trends in technology and EV markets. So why should an analyst base a forecast on whether some set of politician say 2030, 2040, or no ban at all? Its only relevant if it speeds up the technology and markets. So if a few markets have 2030 policies, this speeds up the tech for virtually all markets. Beyond that effect there may be no difference between a 2030 policy market and one with no ban at all. Indeed the rest of the world may effectively be on a 2035 "policy", which is to say that a ban would only have a meaningful impact if it were set before 2035. So the 2040 become obsolete after a few 2030 have been set. So the evolution of policy is the future bans if they are pursued at all will tend to have dates before 2040. All of this is just politicians feeling out what they think are in the cards for technology, markets and public sentiment. Then along comes the IEA analyst who thinks ICE will still have robust market in 2050 in places where they are not currently banned.
 
The mistake that IEA and other analysts make is that they believe that policies drive markets and technology, but not that technology and markets drive policy.

JHM - been following you for some time since I've long thought our investment styles are similar.

Whether you meant to or not, I think this sentence also summarizes why the shorts, the LA Times, Cory Johnson, etc., can't seem to understand companies like Tesla (or even, absent the policy point, companies like Apple before it).

They simply don't get that technology is relentless and will ultimately drive markets and policy. Not the other way around.

Admittedly, sometimes that technology may need a jump-start from policy, but in the case of the electrification of everything, we are past the jump-start phase. The difficulty for the investor is figuring out when we've moved on from that phase.

Your continued work on this thread reminds me that the world still can't quite get its arms around the pace at which electrification is advancing.

Thanks!
 
Thanks JHM. Given that it's taking a very long time for oil companies to admit the inevitable, I actually believe we'll see the $45 oil price needed to balance the market in 2018, and a $40 oil price in 2019... though I'm not tracking supply properly, which has a two or three year lag from investment. My sense is that investment only really dried up this year so the attendant supply reduction won't really hit until 2020. But by then the necessary price, from a demand side, may be $35, which is hitting the level where shale is unprofitable.
 
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Interesting article in Bloomberg on Norway's sovereign wealth fund's desire to divest itself of its $35B in oil and gas stocks. This is supposedly for diversification purposes but I suspect they also realize this is just a bad long-term investment.

Subject to government approval and not expected to take place before autumn 2018 but this seems like a wise move on their part. Pulling those kinds of dollars/krone from the market can't be good news for oil and gas share prices.

World’s Biggest Wealth Fund Wants Out of Oil and Gas

So, if you read carefully, what they're saying is that they are stuck being invested in oil and gas because they own all of Norway's oil and gas wells (this is the source of the sovereign wealth) -- and that they think that's more than enough oil and gas investment and they should not have any additional oil and gas investments. They're quite right.
 
So, if you read carefully, what they're saying is that they are stuck being invested in oil and gas because they own all of Norway's oil and gas wells (this is the source of the sovereign wealth) -- and that they think that's more than enough oil and gas investment and they should not have any additional oil and gas investments. They're quite right.

You are right, that is what they say. I read more into it than the desire to diversify but I agree diversification is the *stated* reason.
 
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You are right, that is what they say. I read more into it than the desire to diversify but I agree diversification is the *stated* reason.
I suspect trying to sell off Norway's state oil and gas reserves would not be popular. They expect that revenue stream to go away, but they can't actually sell it!

Any further oil and gas investment is just gratutious bad investment, though, and I suspect they've figured this out.
 
Thanks JHM. Given that it's taking a very long time for oil companies to admit the inevitable, I actually believe we'll see the $45 oil price needed to balance the market in 2018, and a $40 oil price in 2019... though I'm not tracking supply properly, which has a two or three year lag from investment. My sense is that investment only really dried up this year so the attendant supply reduction won't really hit until 2020. But by then the necessary price, from a demand side, may be $35, which is hitting the level where shale is unprofitable.

Please do not give oil price predictions if you're "not tracking supply properly."

Many people invest based on what others say and write, and your above comment, without the necessary research, is irresponsible.
 
So, if you read carefully, what they're saying is that they are stuck being invested in oil and gas because they own all of Norway's oil and gas wells (this is the source of the sovereign wealth) -- and that they think that's more than enough oil and gas investment and they should not have any additional oil and gas investments. They're quite right.
It doesn't look like the Sovereign Wealth Fund owns any of Norway's oil and gas assets. Just lots of other oil companies... Shell, Exxon, BP, etc.
 
I suspect trying to sell off Norway's state oil and gas reserves would not be popular. They expect that revenue stream to go away, but they can't actually sell it!

Any further oil and gas investment is just gratutious bad investment, though, and I suspect they've figured this out.

They are getting their income from oil concessions but they don't strictly speaking own the oil fields / rights to them. Of course all of the other things you write are spot-on.

I suspect there is another big problem at hand. Imagine yourself being in the middle of a crowded theatre, you smell fire and see the flames coming up from below your chair. You are desperate to make it to the exit but don't want to create a panic and make it out the room before the other guys. What are you going to yell? "Fire!!! Everyone out!!!" or are you going to say "Excuse me a second, I need a bathroom."?

The fund can't divest without public knowledge. As their investments are big enough to move the markets, they need to be careful with their language and not be seen as panicy - they want to sell their shares with minimal loss. So what will they say? Right - "excuse us a sec, we will be right back..." - and that's what you can read in the news.
 
Please do not give oil price predictions if you're "not tracking supply properly."

Many people invest based on what others say and write, and your above comment, without the necessary research, is irresponsible.
You need to stop spamming this board and questioning posters who share an opinion differing from your "TSLA to 700 oil to 80" nonsense. Everything expressed here is an opinion.
 
They are getting their income from oil concessions but they don't strictly speaking own the oil fields / rights to them. Of course all of the other things you write are spot-on.

I suspect there is another big problem at hand. Imagine yourself being in the middle of a crowded theatre, you smell fire and see the flames coming up from below your chair. You are desperate to make it to the exit but don't want to create a panic and make it out the room before the other guys. What are you going to yell? "Fire!!! Everyone out!!!" or are you going to say "Excuse me a second, I need a bathroom."?

The fund can't divest without public knowledge. As their investments are big enough to move the markets, they need to be careful with their language and not be seen as panicy - they want to sell their shares with minimal loss. So what will they say? Right - "excuse us a sec, we will be right back..." - and that's what you can read in the news.

Great analogy. I think that's exactly what's going on.
 
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Headlines for November 17, 2017 | Democracy Now!

In climate news, the fossil fuel divestment movement got a major boost on Thursday when the Norwegian government announced it is considering selling off $35 billion in oil and gas stocks. Norway would become by far the largest entity to join the divestment movement. Norway’s $1 trillion sovereign wealth fund controls about 1.5 percent of all global stocks.
 
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For some reason, humans tend to believe the same statement when it's said by someone who's perceived to be knowledgeable, instead of analyzing statements component by component, regardless of who says them. This is why way more importance than warranted is given to credentials/degrees and other b.s.

Anyway... here's what I've been saying for months in my articles from the mouth of someone with more credentials, so maybe this will help...

http://www.cdevinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/MGP-BOA-111617.Final_.pdf
 
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