Shot forward when parked [unintended acceleration - resolved by OP]

[Gauss Guzzler]

You're right. I didn't put it in park. It was still in drive and creep.

This is incorrect. If you didn't use the emergency handle then the car was in Park - there's no way around this and it doesn't matter if you forgot to put it in Park or not - it was still in Park. If you open the door with the button, the car will *always* be in Park.

So if you're certain you didn't use the emergency handle you must have put it back in Drive after opening the door.

Your error message log might give more insight:

How can I get Alerts to show on the screen?

Every so often Alerts come up on the screen. UsuaLLy while I'm driving so I can't take pictures of them. How can I get Alerts that have happened to come up on my screen?

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[thesmokingman]

This is incorrect. If you didn't use the emergency handle then the car was in Park - there's no way around this and it doesn't matter if you forgot to put it in Park or not - it was still in Park. If you open the door with the button, the car will *always* be in Park.

So if you're certain you didn't use the emergency handle you must have put it back in Drive after opening the door.

Nope, you can actually open the door while its moving. There's a slight delay before it auto sets Park. I assume this tiny window of delay is how the OP got herself into this situation.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

That YouTube video is from 2019. I've never been able to duplicate that behavior so either I'm not getting the conditions just right or they have fixed that loophole long ago.

 

[gearchruncher]

This is incorrect. ... If you open the door with the button, the car will *always* be in Park.

Stop saying this. The manual is clear that it is possible to not go into park with the door open using the button. I've done, it, and it's done on purpose using a 2 of 3 conditions logic (plus a speed logic, so it's really 3 of 4)

JUST opening the door does not put it in park. You must ALSO have the seatbelt off or have no weight on the seat.

Are there scenarios where you actually need to have the door open and drive? It seems like the human factors design there would be to do the simplest path- if the door is opened, it goes into Park. Not based on weight or seatbelt use.

Yes. You want to move a car precisely and need to look out the door such as putting the car on a lift or not parking over a puddle.
Ever seen someone pop open the door at a red light and toss their drink contents out? Ever need to pop open the door at a drive through or to access a gate code pad? Does the driver really expect the car to go into park due to this?

Also, if you tie this 100% to the door being open, if the door sensor fails, the car puts itself into park. At 60MPH. Or it's unexpectedly in park at the above red light situation and is a hazard when the car won't go unexpectedly. Any automatic state change by a machine always has a chance of confusing the user, and when that machine is a car, any confusion has the opportunity to be a hazard.

Tesla's above rules pretty elegantly decide "is a driver present and in control" and is this a low risk time to go into park instead of "is the door open".

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

I should clarify:
If you open the door with the button, the car will *always* be in Park - at that moment
(but it won't necessarily stay in Park as it does allow you to shift back into gear after the door is open for littering or other purposes.)

I might be wrong, that YouTube video certainly says so. But I'm pretty sure that 2019 behavior no longer exists and I'll double check next time I'm out.

 

[gearchruncher]

If you open the door with the button, the car will *always* be in Park - at that moment

No it won't. I just tried it. Put the car in creep. Put your foot on the brake. Press the door handle button to open the door. Within about half a second, release the brake. The car stays in gear and rolls forward. Same happens if not in creep if you tap the "gauss" pedal within that half second. It never indicates it is in park, makes any sounds, etc.

In order to go into park, you have to leave your foot on the brake for 1+ second and not let the car move at all during that time.

This is exactly why Tesla doesn't say "if you open the door with the button it will always go into park" anywhere in the manual.

 

[thesmokingman]

This thread has already been asked and answered, even got mod approval. /thread


And yet...

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Thanks @gearchruncher I stand corrected - I didn't spot that 1/2 second window of opportunity when I tested it.

 

[CyberGus]

This thread has already been asked and answered, even got mod approval. /thread


And yet...

We were awaiting the Thread Police.

Full closure has now been achieved.

 

[Electroman]

I am sure so many people reading this thread - a few are TMC members (hmm.. the ones that were urging to file with NHTSA at the drop of the hat even though everyone knows SUI is not a thing in Tesla) but many trolls from the internet who hate Tesla are sure disappointed on how this all ended.

 

[gearchruncher]

a few are TMC members (hmm.. the ones that were urging to file with NHTSA at the drop of the hat even though everyone knows SUI is not a thing in Tesla) but many trolls from the internet who hate Tesla are sure disappointed on how this all ended.

As the literal only one that mentioned NHTSA, I assume you mean me? In my post where I literally say all the following things in the same post, clearly giddy that this will take down Tesla for once and for all?

This is a pretty serious situation that won't be solved on a forum like this. Contact NHTSA and file a complaint, and work with your insurance to do an investigation.

But if this is real, you are in for an interesting ride around the world of unintended acceleration, Tesla Fanboys, Tesla Doubters, and the media. Buckle up.

Right now the fact you shared just a picture of your foot makes this seem somewhat like a story made to harm Tesla's reputation with not a lot of data.

And then followed it up with gems such as:

This is all speculation and why EDR's are so useful, and people's memory of complex and stressful events like this can be pretty flawed.

You have to make sure you don't read too much into hyperbole like "the car shot forward" and just think how this could be an edge case of expected behavior against an unexpected use case.

The car also beeps continuously if it is moving with the door open (I know because I do this all the time when working on the car and it's almost impossible to keep it in gear)

Something happening once does not mean the system failed at it's design intent, or that the current notifications are insufficient.

Or where I had to keep pointing people at the Tesla manual to tell them how this was expected behavior of the car?

And the fact that I figured out what happened within 60 minutes of the original post and it wasn't SUI?

This doesn't have to be unintended acceleration. You can put a Tesla in creep mode, open the door, take foot off brake, let it creep to 1.5+ MPH, unbuckle the seat, and get out, and it will keep going. This is by design so that failures of sensors don't throw the car into park at 60 MPH on the highway. Note there is no report the car was purposefully in park when they got out.

My bias is clearly on display.

But I am glad that you would consider anyone that would even think of anyone filing privately with NHTSA over something they perceived as a safety incident could be nothing but trying to damage Tesla, all because "SUI isn't a thing", despite that literally being the process you are supposed to follow in the USA if you do have a concern, and the fact that Tesla changes software all the time so situations could change.

 

[jjrandorin]

FWIW, I also suggested that the OP might consider filing with whatever their local equivalent of the NHTSA was, so that wasnt just you.

I am sure so many people reading this thread - a few are TMC members (hmm.. the ones that were urging to file with NHTSA at the drop of the hat even though everyone knows SUI is not a thing in Tesla) but many trolls from the internet who hate Tesla are sure disappointed on how this all ended.

This thread has done very well so far at not turning into, frankly "this" (points upward at the quote I am referencing). Any further references like this (or rebuttals) will be removed from this particular thread as its not a thread for that particular discussion.

 

[dmurphy]

Hi Carole! Welcome to TMC. I’m fashionably late to the party but just wanted to say welcome, and thank you. Even with the unfortunate damage done, this has been a great thread to read. Your enthusiasm and willingness to better understand the car is super, super refreshing.

Makes me jealous a little, actually, for the days when I had lots and lots to learn. I still learn something new every day, it’s just not nearly as much as it once was.

I’m just so happy that this wasn’t someone who dropped a note in here and then ran away, but someone who wants to be part of this great community. So thank you for that!

You’ll find the knowledge here at TMC second to none. Occasionally grumpy, occasionally sarcastic but definitely a knowledgeable bunch. That’s what keeps me here.

So again, terribly sorry about the damage but thankfully your grandson was OK (and will forget the entire episode shortly) and YOU are OK. That’s most important! The rest are just battle scars from the quest for knowledge.

 

[Carolespirit]

I think it would be helpful if there was a distinctive sound to indicate the car has been successfully put into park?

This is incorrect. If you didn't use the emergency handle then the car was in Park - there's no way around this and it doesn't matter if you forgot to put it in Park or not - it was still in Park. If you open the door with the button, the car will *always* be in Park.

So if you're certain you didn't use the emergency handle you must have put it back in Drive after opening the door.

Your error message log might give more insight:

How can I get Alerts to show on the screen?

Every so often Alerts come up on the screen. UsuaLLy while I'm driving so I can't take pictures of them. How can I get Alerts that have happened to come up on my screen?

teslamotorsclub.com

i never use that emergency handle. I don’t like it. Clumsy. I couldn’t possibly have put it back into drive, I’m sorry. My foot was outside the door.

 

[Carolespirit]

Nope, you can actually open the door while its moving. There's a slight delay before it auto sets Park. I assume this tiny window of delay is how the OP got herself into this situation.

Absolutely. I’m certain this tiny, tiny delay encouraged me to believe I was in park.

 

[Carolespirit]

I wish the screen looked exactly like my Apple Mac with the same icons. It would be a seamless transition from my home to my car. I’m sure Apple would be willing (perhaps even happy?) to join with Tesla and make life easier for all of us? The whole screen could go blank for a moment with just the word ‘Parked’ perhaps?

I‘m a graphic designer. I had my own company specialising in prospectuses for Universities all my life until I retired. It’s essential that information is presented clearly. There should be no opportunity for misunderstanding, and that’s only in the printed word. In a moving vehicle it’s absolutely essential to be clear and instantly understood, and possibly even life threatening to get it wrong. I’ve always considered the genius of Elon Musk to be the Steve Jobs of automotive design, but Tesla do need a better designer of their screen interface. Jobs was a genius with typography and colour. Jonathan Ives was masterful. The typography is too small for much important information and badly positioned. It’s also not consistent, making it necessary to ‘think’ and look for things again when switching levels. It needs to be much more ‘user friendly’.

I promise you that the graphic design of the function of the screen could be much improved. You would not even realise it had been improved, because like all true elegance and intelligent applied art, it shouldn’t be noticed. You would just find it easier and more pleasant, and faster - so in this scenario - safer. Ok maybe not to match an iMac, but with as much care and attention to its graphic design. x

 

[Carolespirit]

We can improve the UI via software.

First, make a spectacle of entering “park” (audibly/visually) so that it is obvious.

Second, make a LOUD spectacle when “park” is auto-selected, so that drivers will not be reliant on it with a false sense of security.

Lastly, make a minor alert when in “drive” and a trigger received from any of the aforementioned sensors:

Seat belt - “please remain buckled when in motion”
Door - “please keep all limbs inside the vehicle”
Occupancy sensor - “hey did you just get raptured wtf”

(Moderator note)

I do want to take a second to specifically commend the OP of this thread (@Carolespirit ).

Not only did they keep engaged in the thread (which isnt that unusual, but is welcome), but didnt take offense at some posters skepticism about this subject and being a new poster, and even better, when they felt they might have figured out what happened, came back and told us so.

Usually, when a poster figures out something like this, and it perhaps isnt what they thought, they just "vanish" or at a minimum stop commenting on the thread they started. Its refreshing to see that not be the case here.

My personal opinion is, since the OP has what they feel is an acceptable answer to what happened, there is no longer any need to "dig in" to the issue reported in the thread. With that being said, I am not going to lock the thread or anything. I am just hoping we can reciprocate the accountability shown by @Carolespirit by not "piling on" as it were.

In any case, A belated "Welcome to TMC" to @Carolespirit , and hope now that you have figured this out, you choose to stay a while.

Thank you for that and I agree that the issue has been resolved. I will behave differently in my Tesla from now on.

I would like to say one last thing though, if I may.

I am a graphic designer. I had my own company all my life until I retired. We specialised in University prospectuses (Manchester University, University College London, Imperial College, many others.)

It’s essential that there is absolutely no opportunity for misunderstanding created by the design and presentation of information, and that’s just in design for print. It’s even more essential for an interface used in a moving vehicle. I’m sad to say that the design of the graphics on the Tesla screen needs work.

I’ve always believed that Elon Musk is the Steve Jobs of the automotive industry. Their creative genius has brought about massive change for the better.

Now that all instructions to the car are on one screen though, it needs to be perfectly easy, accurate and fast (therefore safe) to understand and use. Steve Jobs was a genius of typography and the use of colour. He understood its value and how much it supported the interaction of the user with the screen. Jonathan Ives was masterful.

The typography on the Tesla screen is very poor. It’s too small and badly positioned for some of the important information. The hierarchy of importance has not been thought through well enough. It’s also inconsistent causing you to have to ‘think’ when changing levels. There should be no creation of a moment of hesitation.

I could go on, but I won’t bore you. If it was improved you wouldn’t be aware of the specific changes. It would just be easier, quicker and more comfortable to use. Like all true elegance and intelligent applied art, it shouldn’t be noticed.

Thank you for all your support. It’s been most enjoyable and informative. x

 

[Carolespirit]

Glad you're ok. If the car wasn't in park, then it probably did creep forward. But if it shot forward, maybe your other foot brushed the accelerator pedal when you pivot to exit the vehicle? Just guessing.

Thank you. Yes, it did creep. I was so alarmed it seemed like it ‘shot.’ But it didn’t. I just hadn’t pressed park.

 

[Carolespirit]

Good attitude! I encourage you to try driving in Hold mode.

Yes, I’ve disabled creep now. Thank you.

 

[Carolespirit]

No it won't. I just tried it. Put the car in creep. Put your foot on the brake. Press the door handle button to open the door. Within about half a second, release the brake. The car stays in gear and rolls forward. Same happens if not in creep if you tap the "gauss" pedal within that half second. It never indicates it is in park, makes any sounds, etc.

In order to go into park, you have to leave your foot on the brake for 1+ second and not let the car move at all during that time.

This is exactly why Tesla doesn't say "if you open the door with the button it will always go into park" anywhere in the manual.

Yes, that’s exactly what I did. That’s why it rolled forward into the wall.