Should Model S have a solar panel?

[doug]

Yeah, I'd prefer covered parking and a plug.

 

[JRP3]

I'd rather have the pano roof that a solar panel that is rarely needed.

They could build the solar panel into the hood, and you get to keep your pano roof. :smile: In full disclosure I'm irrationally attracted to on board solar power.

 

[doug]

They could build the solar panel into the hood, and you get to keep your pano roof. :smile: In full disclosure I'm irrationally attracted to on board solar power.

Might as well add windmills while you're at it.

 

[JRP3]

The Fiero pictured has what looks like 500 watts of solar, lets say 6 hours total of rated output when parked at work for 8 hours, 2000 whs, 300wh/mi, 6.6 miles of range. That's more than half of my normal daily driving range.

 

[GlennAlanBerry]

Solar PV Panels on the Roof of a Model S

I have sometimes wondered why there is not a factory option to have solar PV cells embedded in the surface of the roof of the Model S. The surface area of the roof would probably allow you to get perhaps 300-500 watts of output, depending on the efficiency of the cells.
This could give you a just a little bit of extra range while driving in the daylight, or help diminish the range loss from battery pack heating and cooling (assuming you were parked in the sunlight).

I have a little 3.1KW Solar PV system on the roof of my house with ten 315W SunPower panels. The size of one of those panels seems to be a little less than the area of a Model S roof. Of course, if you were getting 400 watts out of these panels, as you were driving your 85kWh Models S slowly for five hours on a sunny day, that would only be 2kWh out of the roof panels. It would probably be more useful while you were parked at the airport on a long trip (and you could not plug in to a 110 volt "trickle charge").

But, it would sort of look high-tech...

 

[clmason]

Has anyone researched these Portable Foldable Solar Chargers? PowerFilm FM16-7200 120 Watt 7200mA 15.4 Volts Foldable Solar Charger - Khaki Only 120 Watt 7200mA 15.4 Volts Foldable Solar Charger - Khaki Only

What specs would a portable solar charger need in order to provide 5 miles of range to the Model S in a couple hours.

Question for someone with more technical knowledge than I; are we close to this being a viable emergency charging system for the Model S? How many years out?

 

[JRP3]

Let's say you need 300 watt hours per mile, 5 miles of range, 1500 watt hours. For simplicity you need 5 hours of sun on a 300 watt hour array, or 2.5 hours of sun on a 600 watt hour array.

 

[dwhite]

Somehow I don't think a 5-7 watt solar panel (one square foot) will do much for an 85,000 watt battery.

 

[olanmills]

It would be quite expensive for almost no benefit.

 

[EchoDelta]

Has anyone researched these Portable Foldable Solar Chargers? [....] Are we close to this being a viable emergency charging system for the Model S? How many years out?

I've had those (at smaller sizes/powers) for powering laptops and Hughes BGAN antennas. Worked like a charm. But the power draw is very different, i never needed more than 300W.
For "emergency" situations for cars not sure you could do much with it also considering efficiencies DC-alternator-etc at higher currents etc. But this is all theory - See if you can test one!

There are many types of emergencies - you ended up in the boonies with no charge after a night of drunk driving and you don't know where anything is (but your car), you are 4 miles away from your home with kids onboard and no charge because you detoured for milk after a regular 260 mi driving day, you met the love of your life at an unexpected highway junction in the cold weather and parked there on the shoulder for a week, a flat tire in a place with no cell signal, stuck in snow or mud, you are running away from the law into the forest, you are escaping a nuclear fallout plume at max speed as you see civilization collapse around you and you know the grid won't be back up for centuries... etc.

Not sure given the few situations where the panel could make a substantive difference would justify lugging the thing around all the time vs. having ranger service + AAA. A cheap charged cell phone with a high-gain external antenna that can take your SIM card is probably a better investment. But yeah, to charge the car from a foldable solar panel does sound cool.

 

[MarkR]

I'm not in favor of solar "panels" on a Model S, but solar paint on a Model S/X may be an option in a few years if the research at Notre Dame and USC is successful. The current crop of solar paint is far to inefficient to be of any practical value, but turning cars, homes, and commercial buildings into solar generating stations would solve our energy problems rather quickly.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111221211324.htm

 

[JRP3]

Except that paint is much less efficient than any solar cell available, so it would do even less on a vehicle, and basically nothing on any area besides the hood, roof and trunk, where a conventional panel could be fitted, providing much more power. Personally I'd rather have a solar panel instead of a pano roof. It would counteract the remaining vampire load and allow the car to sit indefinitely without any worry, plus gain a few miles each day for free.

 

[jerry33]

Except that paint is much less efficient than any solar cell available, so it would do even less on a vehicle, and basically nothing on any area besides the hood, roof and trunk, where a conventional panel could be fitted, providing much more power. Personally I'd rather have a solar panel instead of a pano roof. It would counteract the remaining vampire load and allow the car to sit indefinitely without any worry, plus gain a few miles each day for free.

Any gain would be offset by the extra weight using current technology. A solar panel would be far heavier than the pano roof. Toyota only allows certain options with the solar panel because it would overload the car--and that solar panel is only good enough to run a ventilating fan. Solar panels belong on the roof of your house, not on the roof of your car.

 

[JRP3]

Depends on the panel, but a quick search the first 150 watt panel I found was 25lbs. I bet the pano roof weighs more than that. That's a stand alone panel with it's own frame, an integrated panel would weigh less. A single 150 Watt panel at 6 hours of full output in an 8 hour day is 900 watt hours, which should counter the reduced vampire drain of the 5.0 software. Better panels with higher efficiencies could do even more, and I expect as they get better and cheaper we will indeed see them on vehicles, at least as an option.

 

[techmaven]

I own Helios 6T 240 watt mono-crystalline solar panels. They are around $325 new and are about 3' x 5'. The vast majority of the 50 lb weight is the protective glass top layer, which would be redundant with the pano roof option.

The primary reasons I want a solar option have nothing to do with charging the main traction battery. For me, it is all about the 12v system and 12v accessories. First is the spate of 12v battery failures. I would want a solar panel to be able to power up the traction battery even if the 12v lead acid battery is dead. Further, it can charge the 12v battery and reduce the possibility that it goes dead even though they are now using deep cycle batteries. I would also want it to be able to power up the main control systems that respond to the smartphone apps. Finally, I want that extra power available to user accessories.

 

[AC1K]

a solar option for the pano roof maybe an option when current photo voltaic cells stop sucking.

currently a 3x5 panel with a max output of 250W is 17% efficient, now some companies (sharp) have created a prototype 44% cell, at the same panel size it should make 650W, you cover the rear window as well and you could possibly make 1kW.
at 1kW the car could recharge itself to 90% in 8 hours (long summer day).

But if you drove to work and parked on the top of the parkade it should top off the battery as your trip probably wasn't 400kms.

 

[Musterion]

at 1kW the car could recharge itself to 90% in 8 hours (long summer day)

What?? Even with your generous assumption of 1kW charging, you are only about an order of magnitude off.

 

[brianman]

Cue link to post of Fisker review which talks about "500 years parked in direct sunlight 24x7 in Arizona" (and still not worth it) or whatever it was.

Rough transcript from 2:00:

This is a huge 120W solar panel. It's big. It's curved. It looks really neat.

But, if you live near the equator. It's sunny all the time. You park your car outside all the time. Well then you might get about 200 miles of charge per year. If you do the math on that, that comes out to about $10-$12 of free electricity per year.

This solar panel was originally going to be a $5000 option on the car.

If you figure $5000/$10 ... It would only take you 500 years to break even on the cost of the solar panel, assuming that you live in the right place and you leave your car outside for 500 years.

 

[bonnie]

Brianman, you should be flogged for bumping this thread. Go to your corner.

 

[brianman]

Brianman, you should be flogged for bumping this thread. Go to your corner.

I needed to update it for the quote because I got tired of just saying "watch the Fisker video". Now I can link to the text content. Like in my reply to Raffy's post.

There's a method to my madness, usually.