SpudLime
Active Member
Uh. What? Can you point to a time stamp where that was said? I certainly didn’t hear that and I’ve listened to it twice.
You making stuff up?
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So all model S are 100D now
- Thread starter Asterix187
- Start date
Uh. What? Can you point to a time stamp where that was said? I certainly didn’t hear that and I’ve listened to it twice.
You making stuff up?
Fusion
Member
The longer they don't refresh the S and X, the longer they look new. Look at all the other companies. Every time a new version comes out, the previous model looks OLD.
Many forum posts keep saying they are all the same but keep forgetting that there are going to have different motors. I'm assuming the performance has the larger motor with or w/o ludicrous mode.
Was when elon said there are no plans for 2170 cells for S and X. The feeling was that there is no imminent plans for any type of S redesign. In terms if the interior and MCU design am referring to this:
Exclusive first look at Tesla Model S and Model X interior refresh: going spartan like Model 3
T_E_S_L_A
Member
Yes it’s difficult to know what’s standard now and what they got rid of. So, I see the standard is that all cars are XM radio capable...which means pano roof only!? They got rid of the all glass roof!!??
T_E_S_L_A
Member
Oops. Maybe not. Looks like in one part of the website the all glass roof is still standard. Never mind!
whitex
Well-Known Member
Plenty of Tesla's can sustain 110kW+ peak power for 15+ minutes. See ~800 Tesla's from A Better Route Planner.
Model 3 LR (BT37 battery) -- peak power for ~17 minutes
S/X 100Ds and P100Ds (BTX6 battery) -- peak power for ~22 minutes
But, not so on the older 85kWh packs, which is only ~7 minutes of peak power.
So clearly 2170 batteries in Model 3 do not charge faster than 100KW S/X batteries.
So, why again people are so hung up on getting this slower charging battery?
Pretty sure when Supercharger v3 is out, Model 3 will supercharge faster than Model S/X.
They were all standard for the last few months I believe, so I'm assuming they are all standard now, though it's certainly hard to tell with the new streamlined ordering interface.
When V3 supercharging deployed, even if the current S/X battery packs can't take full advantage of the faster charging, if the V3 chargers use the same strategy of sharing two charging ports on a single charger, the older packs should benefit because they may be able to charge at the full rate, even if another vehicle was already using the other shared charger.
The 3 packs have a different design. Tesla has been talking about V3 supercharging since before the 100 packs came out. While it's possible they incorporated the pack changes needed to support V3 supercharging into the S/X 100 packs, it's more likely they did that with the 2170 packs, which take up less volume for the batteries, providing more space for increased thermal control and handling the higher charging rate.
Since the current S/X 100 packs use the older batteries, that take up more space, it seems less likely Tesla would have been able to make enough changes in the design to handle the faster charging rate and increased heat caused by that.
The 3 packs have a different design. Tesla has been talking about V3 supercharging since before the 100 packs came out. While it's possible they incorporated the pack changes needed to support V3 supercharging into the S/X 100 packs, it's more likely they did that with the 2170 packs, which take up less volume for the batteries, providing more space for increased thermal control and handling the higher charging rate.
Since the current S/X 100 packs use the older batteries, that take up more space, it seems less likely Tesla would have been able to make enough changes in the design to handle the faster charging rate and increased heat caused by that.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
The charge taper curves posted above indicate to me that it’s highly likely both battery packs can achieve a higher charge rate than the current supercharger can provide.
I wonder.... One thing that hasn't been considered is the supercharge cables themselves. The cables are running 300 amps and they're extremely heavy. You're not going to put much more through that cable without going to 800V. Sure they can do liquid cooling but that's complex and wastes energy.
It almost seems silly to me that Tesla would come out with a V3 supercharger without bumping the voltage, as Porsche has. The SC cabling would be smaller and lighter. And there would be the potential to go to 800V systems in future cars.
Higher voltage means more expensive chips for all the systems but especially the drive inverters, requires more insulation, and increases risks of arcing/shorts. I'm not sure a shorter charge time is worth it. I guess we'll see how the 800V Porsche fairs in the market against all the 350-450V competition.
whitex
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry. Data from current superchargers shows the S/X 100 batteries charge faster than M3 LR, but somehow you are sure that with V3 M3s will charge faster?!? What exactly in a V3 supercharger will allow M3 to charge faster, if on V2 supercharger they can't keep up already? Is the conspiracy theory here that Tesla is purposely slowing down the M3 to be slower and unleash it via OTA when V3 supercharger is unveiled?
Sure, but you gotta compare kWh to kWh. The Model S 40kWh is a slow-poke compared to the Model 3.
A fair comparison is the same battery size, which helps illustrate baseline potential. The Model 3 does charge faster from 10kWh to 50kWh (which removes tapering concerns; see the OP article linked in your quote) compared to a similar 18650 vehicle, i.e. Model S 75.
People were probably hung up since it took Tesla nearly 16 months to discontinue the S 75
800V isn't crazy high. In Canada all of our industrial equipment is 600V. Yes you'd need likely need a revised power section on the inverters. But on the other side, all of the copper buswork would be smaller and lighter.
Has anyone confirmed that software limited battery packs can be charged to 100% without accelerating the reduction in max charge? If so why does my X60D nag me every time I do this? Does the SW limit mean - all cells charge to 80%? Or 80% of the cells charge to 100% and 20% of the cells are never used? My X60D range dropped very quickly from 200 to 189.
whitex
Well-Known Member
60's lock out the top range, so yes, you can charge to 100%. The car warns you because the software assumes your battery is smaller (it assumes you have an actual 60KWh battery). People have charged a 60 to 100% ,then paid for the upgrade, and suddenly the battery was happy. The reason Tesla doesn't have any incentive whatsoever to remove the nag is because people do pay to get rid of it (I did, once the price dropped to $2K, because I didn't want the nag and because I figured the software lock software was not as well tested as unlocked batteries).
