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So... did my APv1 car just get shot in the head?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by gizmoboy, Oct 19, 2016.

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  1. gizmoboy

    gizmoboy Member

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    Given the new APv2 software is clearly a whole new architecture requiring a new sensor harness, did today's announcement doom APv1 cars to essentially no more software development effort?

    Unlike the AP vs no-AP cars which share more features than they differ, APv1 vs APv2 appear to share no features and since APv1 cars are no longer built, I'm having a hard time seeing why anything other than critical safety bugs will ever get done for them on the go-forward.
     
  2. martinicus

    martinicus Member

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    On the conference call Elon said that software for AP 1 will continue to be improved. It will just be hardwear limited, and not capable of self driving.
     
  3. Xminus6

    Xminus6 Member

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    I would also think that AP1 cars would benefit from the neural net learning from AP2 equipped cars contributing to the overall database.
     
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  4. eldrick

    eldrick A Serious Member

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    hate to agree with you, but you are damn right
     
  5. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT Quickish

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    Don't stress, it will be years before the software catches up with the AP2 hardware.
     
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  6. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    No, not at all.

    You still have 8.1 to look forwards to with radar based AEB activation. So the fun isn't quite over yet. Keep in mind they both share the same radar, and neither one of them can stop in the fog for a UFO without this.

    But, in some ways yes the ride is going to come to an end. It's not necessarily a bad thing because lets say 8.1 works fairly well. The last thing you want when something works well is to have it messed with.

    It's going to have excellent AEB (if it gets upgraded) with very good TACC, and so-so lane-keeping.

    The AP 2.0 will undergo lots of rapid, and sometimes stressful firmware upgrades. I don't expect it to go cleanly, and I think owners might be in for a bit of a rough go of things for bit. Sure long term they'll have a really killer package, but it's going to be awhile to get the firmware working really well. Note - I'll be happy for the owners if I'm wrong, but I don't think I'll be wrong.

    I'll probably upgrade sometime in Mid 2017 or maybe later. For me the ride in terms of firmware upgrades is half the fun of the car so it's not really a ride I want to get off of. I might bitch and moan about some change, but I can't deny that I hit the firmware upgrade button as soon as it pops up. I don't want to be a UI only updater. Those guys depress me. :p
     
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  7. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    I struggle to see that. It's not easy to transfer learnings from one neural network to another completely different one. That's why Tesla is having to retrain AP2 over the next couple of months. Well... that and I imagine that Mobileye hasn't been exactly forthcoming with their part of the AP1 training data.
     
  8. davidc18

    davidc18 Active Member

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    It will be interesting to see how they manage go from the high frequency nagging in 8.0 to L5. I can see that in the near term at least, that the new autopilot + will be saddled with frequent nagging just like AP 1.0. That is until the regulators and insurance industry catches up to what is possible with this new hardware (and software). The next few years will be interesting. I hope that in the future, AP 1.0 can have the nags removed.
     
  9. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    While announcing AP 2.0 yesterday wasn't unexpected, what was unexpected is Tesla prepared to claim the hardware going into the cars now will be sufficient for full self-driving. What I had expected was that AP 2.0 would get much closer, and that one more iteration (AP 3.0) might be needed to get to self-driving.

    Even though AP 2.0 is a huge step, AP 1.0 has a lot of benefits, and will continue to improve. Tesla sold AP 1.0 as autopilot for highways - so AP 1.0 owners shouldn't be disappointed if they don't get full self-driving, Tesla never claimed it would do that.
     
  10. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    THIS is the reason I changed my purchase to a lease at the last minute. I hemmed and hawed about it and decided on a lease the day before pick-up. Changed all the paperwork etc.........but now I'm glad I did. And in retrospect I have no regrets. In 3 years i will get another Tesla, I just don't know what model yet. Maybe model B? With wings?
    Like my computer these techie things become old real quick :)
    I was blown away by the video!
    I forget who it was but a member put off his purchase last week, he must be happy now :) Didn't know it then but he already had the hardware :)
     
    • Like x 1
  11. Daniel Meola

    Daniel Meola Member

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    I definitely think it will decrease the value of my S, but I knew this was coming sooner or later. Waited in line to get two Model 3s pre-ordered, looks like I'll be trading in the S for a 3.
     
  12. RogerHScott

    RogerHScott Active Member

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    Well of course he said that. And as long as AP1-targeted development doesn't entirely stop it isn't a lie. But in practical terms, where do
    do you really expect Tesla's priorities to lie?

    Maybe what's needed here is a software aftermarket: third-party developers could carry forward AP1-targeted software to be delivered
    (OTA) as a separate, non-free product. What could possibly go wrong? ;)
     
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  13. RogerHScott

    RogerHScott Active Member

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    Given that they the two systems have both different sensors (input) and actuators (outputs), there's not likely to be a lot of commonality
    between the two sets of training data.
     
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  14. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    Anyone not satisfied with there AP1.0 car can donate it to me. I may even trade you a car you HAVE TO ACTUALLY DRIVE.... ;)
     
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  15. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    I can see it now. 3rd party installers for AP2.0 For only $20,000 we can upgrade your "old" S into full autonomy :)
     
  16. mark

    mark Member

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    Exactly - my 2012 S has been made obsolete so many times that now I just smile and feel good for those with new features. I'm looking forward to upgrading eventually, but for now I still love actually driving my model S. :)
     
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  17. RogerHScott

    RogerHScott Active Member

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    Freak. ;)
     
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  18. davidc18

    davidc18 Active Member

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    We need WK057 to start his Tesla firmware update company. Who wouldn't want all of the functions available to AP 1.0 users, without the artificial constraints Tesla has put on the system. Perhaps we can even get the entertainment system updated.
     
  19. spooky981

    spooky981 Member

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    AP1 was evolutionary. We already had something that would pace the car in front of you, Tesla just introduced something that remained in the lane at the same time. Not to mention it really only does so under very specific circumstances while bugging you to tug the wheel every 45 seconds.

    Although Elon is great at selling the hype, I'd expect AP2 to be evolutionary as well.
     
  20. DFibRL8R

    DFibRL8R Member

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    Right. Fundamentally the Model S is a great car. Tesla is banking on owners with deep pockets feeling their perfectly amazing cars are somehow not amazing enough and trading up every couple of years like most folks do with a smart phone. The tech gets better and cheaper (for the less amazing "old version") which allows more people to get on the Tesla train. All cars depreciate but the brisk pace of change at Tesla can make a 6 month old top of the line Model S/X seem outdated.
     
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