So SilkySmooth never happened now waithing on SomethingSpecial

[boonedocks]

Other car companies have large test fleets, where payed engineers test the limits of the cars. But I as a Tesla customer am supposed to pay 5/8k for beta testing?

Tesla used to have EAP-a different kind-Early Access Partners to test software while in development. Owners in the fleet. They had to sign non-disclosures and report details back to Tesla. (I am reasonably sure of this based on conversations with a long time Tesla employee....may or may not be true). If this is true I think Tesla is now doing all of their testing in a laboratory and on the same 20 miles around their facility and not in the “real world”. My cars AP2 EAP is noticeably worse in the last several updates. Worse yet I have sent messages through “My Tesla” where it clearly says “we will get back with you shortly” and what have I heard back.......crickets chirping......nothing

 

[R.S]

Tesla used to have EAP-a different kind-Early Access Partners to test software while in development. Owners in the fleet. They had to sign non-disclosures and report details back to Tesla. (I am reasonably sure of this based on conversations with a long time Tesla employee....may or may not be true). If this is true I think Tesla is now doing all of their testing in a laboratory and on the same 20 miles around their facility and not in the “real world”. My cars AP2 EAP is noticeably worse in the last several updates. Worse yet I have sent messages through “My Tesla” where it clearly says “we will get back with you shortly” and what have I heard back.......crickets chirping......nothing

Well, I mean they told us that the cars have this shadow mode, where they are testing EAP and FSD, but it either doesn't work, or they are missing some crucial testing procedure that is necessary to improve EAP.

I am not a EAP-Tesla owner, so I can't really say anything about it, but clearly you and others aren't experiencing progress, or worse notice regress.

I think part of the problem is that Tesla didn't reject Mobile Eye, but rather the other way around. And now Tesla tries to emulate the Mobile Eye technology, but they aren't there yet. To me it seems, they want to make it look, like they are more proficient than they actually are, while actively pursuing capability even beyond what Mobile Eye was able to do.

So maybe focus more resources on making EAP work, than making other things necessary for FSD happen.

 

[Tjhappel]

I drive a TON and have been early access owner, I had to sign a nda then nothing happened. I get updates same as everyone else does..... slowly

I'm sure tesla has enough employees with there cars now to test new software. Also they'd likely have fewer leaks that way since employees have a job on the line.

All owners can submit feedback through the cars voice command, I have no idea if they ever check any of those but I try to log most of my overpass issues and ghost brake issues.

 

[SlicedBr3ad]

While I agree this is overall good advice, the problem is that some value to future promises must still be attributed to be accurate. Paying "no attention" is probably not good. Paying "suitable" attention is better.

For example, based on your advice literally, buying an AP1 CPO (or inventory if such exists still) would make clear sense, because it is superior to AP2 at this stage.

But in reality, the likelihood of AP2 over time (short-term, even) being superior to AP1 is sufficient that it has to be factored in, somehow. How exactly, that is a good question (and depends on individual factors too like how long you are planning on keeping the car), but it should feature in the calculus.

I'm sure you didn't mean things literally, anyway, so not disagreeing with you but kind of adding to the thinking.

The fact that Tesla is fully equipped to update hardware operation through ongoing software updates is key.

Here is a rough memory lane:
3 years ago, there was no autopilot, only a promise.
2 years ago, we got poor ap1 implementation.
1 year ago, ap1 got better and ap2 was promised with eap.
Now, ap2 is somewhat comparable to ap2. Those who say otherwise are nit picking.

As for future development, think how far voice recognition and smart phones have progressed because that's where market attention was. You can bet that by the time we finish paying off our m3 we'll get a solid eap and some fsd functionality.

Remember, Tesla's end game is to own automated car sharing service. Selling users fsd effectively Pays for that service. Tesla needs fsd, more than we need fsd so you can bet there will be massive progress on this. If you're still not sure they can do it, take a look at space x Costs/landings and why it is poised to become a monopolyI

Based if that, if you're planning to keep the car, get at least eap. If you're planning to keep the car and drive it until it's old age, get fsd.

 

[boonedocks]

The fact that Tesla is fully equipped to update hardware operation through ongoing software updates is key.

Here is a rough memory lane:
3 years ago, there was no autopilot, only a promise.
2 years ago, we got poor ap1 implementation.
1 year ago, ap1 got better and ap2 was promised with eap.
Now, ap2 is somewhat comparable to ap2. Those who say otherwise are nit picking.

As for future development, think how far voice recognition and smart phones have progressed because that's where market attention was. You can bet that by the time we finish paying off our m3 we'll get a solid eap and some fsd functionality.

Remember, Tesla's end game is to own automated car sharing service. Selling users fsd effectively Pays for that service. Tesla needs fsd, more than we need fsd so you can bet there will be massive progress on this. If you're still not sure they can do it, take a look at space x Costs/landings and why it is poised to become a monopolyI

Based if that, if you're planning to keep the car, get at least eap. If you're planning to keep the car and drive it until it's old age, get fsd.

@SlicedBr3ad ...Do you or have you owned a Tesla?

 

[SlicedBr3ad]

@SlicedBr3ad ...Do you or have you owned a Tesla?

Day 1, in store m3 reservation. Driven multiple mS and mX all with ap2. These were loaners to someone I know and he let me borrow them to drive around as he knows I got Tesla fever

 

[Tangible]

But in reality, the likelihood of AP2 over time (short-term, even) being superior to AP1 is sufficient that it has to be factored in, somehow. How exactly, that is a good question (and depends on individual factors too like how long you are planning on keeping the car), but it should feature in the calculus.

True, but of course the stated goal of AP2 was to be vastly, not incrementally better than AP1, with fantastic FSD features not far behind. My problem is that I'm 70.7 years old, and US male life expectancy is 76.9. I'm hoping to get in a little of that cool stuff while I'm still alive. The race between my deteriorating body and mind and Tesla's software development process isn't going well, it seems.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

True, but of course the stated goal of AP2 was to be vastly, not incrementally better than AP1, with fantastic FSD features not far behind. My problem is that I'm 70.7 years old, and US male life expectancy is 76.9. I'm hoping to get in a little of that cool stuff while I'm still alive. The race between my deteriorating body and mind and Tesla's software development process isn't going well, it seems.

You make a good point about future planning and personal circumstances mattering a lot. True.

 

[boonedocks]

You can bet that by the time we finish paying off our m3 we'll get a solid eap and some fsd functionality.

If you receive your M3 in 2018 and get a 7 year loan I do believe you might be on to something.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Here is a rough memory lane:
3 years ago, there was no autopilot, only a promise.
2 years ago, we got poor ap1 implementation.
1 year ago, ap1 got better and ap2 was promised with eap.
Now, ap2 is somewhat comparable to ap2. Those who say otherwise are nit picking.

3 years ago we had a promise of a ramp-to-ramp AP1 with traffic light detection and a summon that meets you on the curb. None of these things are yet to ship and probably only the first one (if that) eventually will.

As for AP2, it is nowhere near comparable to AP1. We can agree to disagree on that, but even if we dismiss all the features AP2 lacks (that perhaps one might call nitpicking), it simply lacks the surity of AP1.

As for the rest of your message on FSD, I'm not questioning Tesla's ability to do (good weater) FSD at some stage. But I do think it might take a very, very long time (and might need plenty of more hardware for performance, handling bad weather etc.). And that's something people are wise to consider.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I thought @SlicedBr3ad’s post wa a little naive as well. That’s why I asked if he even owned a Tesla and as I suspected l....he hasn’t and doesn’t.

We all have to start somewhere. I wrote this when I got here "Car market literally down to 2 cars today" #naive #throwback

 

[SlicedBr3ad]

If you receive your M3 in 2018 and get a 7 year loan I do believe you might be on to something.

That's the timeline I expect. I'll still have m3 at this time and will continue to own it for about 3-6 years after that if reliability is there. So yes, I expect to get usage out of it. At that point, it is unlikely that it will be my primary fsd car but it will be there as a backup/around town car.

 

[Edgewood Dome]

I have no idea why everyone whines so much, I just got back from a 4400 mile road trip, I used the AP2 every single mile (well, for 2 hours at a time; it stops working after that).

It might have hit the brakes 3-4 times on the trip, not a big deal. Even with my legs crossed, I just hit the go pedal within 1/2 a second and never slowed down more than a couple of mph.

It's not perfect, but remember; perfect is the enemy of good.

I noticed reading these posts that the software appears to behave differently for folks. Some say the latest firmware IS silky smooth with none of the problems others have related. So something is really weird going on. I know I can't use AP2 on my S because of hard braking for no reason, hard left turn (jerks out of your hand hard) for no reason, slowing down for a stopped car in front of you then changing its mind and accelerating hard. Totally Not Usable. This is a HW2 Model S 90D with firmware 2017.28 c528869.

 

[whitex]

I noticed reading these posts that the software appears to behave differently for folks. Some say the latest firmware IS silky smooth with none of the problems others have related. So something is really weird going on. I know I can't use AP2 on my S because of hard braking for no reason, hard left turn (jerks out of your hand hard) for no reason, slowing down for a stopped car in front of you then changing its mind and accelerating hard. Totally Not Usable. This is a HW2 Model S 90D with firmware 2017.28 c528869.

It's not weird really. I bet it is silky smooth in some limited number of situations. It's the 80-20 rule, 80% of the functionality can be done in 20% of the time, and vice versa. EAP may work well on some well marked and well traveled by other Tesla roads with no cross traffic or other complexities to navigate. There is a long way from keeping a car in a lane to self-driving.

 

[SMSMD]

As for AP2, it is nowhere near comparable to AP1. We can agree to disagree on that, but even if we dismiss all the features AP2 lacks (that perhaps one might call nitpicking), it simply lacks the surity of AP1..

Just finished 4000km on AP1. Was given a loaner which I drove for 350km AP2 as my vacation was close to the SC. Agree totally with your statement AP2 is no where close to AP1. Was driving through Whistler and squamish in Canada AP2 is too abrupt at the curves and luckily there was no one behind me on Whistler highway as the AP2 reacted with sudden brake to a car exiting out. We all panicked and did not use AP2 on mountains till we got our AP1 back from service and the drive on AP1 was smooth around the curves of the Whistler highway, no abrupt breaks at all.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Just finished 4000km on AP1. Was given a loaner which I drove for 350km AP2 as my vacation was close to the SC. Agree totally with your statement AP2 is no where close to AP1. Was driving through Whistler and squamish in Canada AP2 is too abrupt at the curves and luckily there was no one behind me on Whistler highway as the AP2 reacted with sudden brake to a car exiting out. We all panicked and did not use AP2 on mountains till we got our AP1 back from service and the drive on AP1 was smooth around the curves of the Whistler highway, no abrupt breaks at all.

Thank you for the informative description. Sounds familiar. That has been my experience with AP1 loaners too vs. my own car.

AP2 is now "silky smooth" in its control algorithm after its latest updates (though that seems to fail for some people), so Elon didn't completely make that up or anything, but the problem is underneath the smooth control the system seems very unsure of itself and that manifests in all kinds of abrupt behavior that is documented here.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

It's not weird really. I bet it is silky smooth in some limited number of situations.

Yes... I see it like this:

The AP2 control algorithm used to be "ping pong", now indeed in the latest two "hash" updates it has been silky smooth when it works.

The problem is, the visual/radar recognition does not seem to be much better than it used to be, so underneath the same issues remain. It will steer smoothly until it suddenly doesn't...

 

[oktane]

Safety features like FCW and blind spot and emergency braking are either non existent or poorly functioning. As I've stated many times Tesla should be embarrassed. Just wait for the first major injury or fatality, and Tesla is toast.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Just wait for the first major injury or fatality, and Tesla is toast.

Nah, that's an exaggeration.

 

[oktane]

Nah, that's an exaggeration.

You don't think surviving family will have a case for a massive settlement? Not toast with the money, but blood on their hands for sure.