Solar Panels UK - is it worth it?

[Avendit]

Just out of interest, has anyone looked at shares in the Ripple's co-op wind farm as an alternative to home solar? Looks like a decent alternative if you've not much room on your roof or facing the wrong way. Presumably less hassle as well as you don't need to get surveyors and builders and fitters traipsing all over the place drilling holes.

I have a (very small) share in a community wind turbine on the north west coast. Any PV installed rather pales compared to their 500MW wind turbine and 500MW micro hydro install, but they don't sell to consumers. Hopefully in the mix from my supplier.

PV is mainly a hedge against mad power costs tbh. Every price hike shortens my payback....

 

[cryo]

I have a (very small) share in a community wind turbine on the north west coast. Any PV installed rather pales compared to their 500MW wind turbine and 500MW micro hydro install, but they don't sell to consumers. Hopefully in the mix from my supplier.

PV is mainly a hedge against mad power costs tbh. Every price hike shortens my payback....

I've just been offered a buy in on Ripple energy's proposed latest cooperative windfarm and will seriously consider it. Difficult to take your PV to your next house but a share in a 25 year wind farm with Ripple energy linked to my Octopus go account looks a winner if the wholesale price of electricity keeps rising and it follows your electricity account irrespective of where you live.

 

[Neilman]

I've just been offered a buy in on Ripple energy's proposed latest cooperative windfarm and will seriously consider it. Difficult to take your PV to your next house but a share in a 25 year wind farm with Ripple energy linked to my Octopus go account looks a winner if the wholesale price of electricity keeps rising and it follows your electricity account irrespective of where you live.

Ditto except I have taken the plunge and actually bought a share of their upcoming Kirk Hill wind farm.

1.3kW power for £2k4 anticipated generation 4.2MWh pa for 25 years (with co-op share payback as well?).
The account follows you around if you move and can be Willed to a nominated beneficiary.

Only crazy thing is they only take credit card payments - Santander refused payment until I had a word with their 'Fraud Squad' to release funds.

For new folks who've not already put a £25 "interest" deposit they've introduced a £50 split between me and thee with a reference code.

 

[btc1k]

Just out of interest, has anyone looked at shares in the Ripple's co-op wind farm as an alternative to home solar? Looks like a decent alternative if you've not much room on your roof or facing the wrong way. Presumably less hassle as well as you don't need to get surveyors and builders and fitters traipsing all over the place drilling holes.

EDIT: Here's a link... Ripple Energy: Super simple. Powerfully green.

4.9% yield average over 25 years.

Not dissimilar to any of the UK listed wind or solar generators. But buy the shares of those in the market and you’d get the yield plus capital appreciation. And most of those companies are returning more than 5%.

So a lesser return than listed companies over the period, no capital appreciation, and a lack of liquidity too.

Nice marketing though.

 

[Neilman]

In my case my house has weird small odd shaped roofs with nothing big enough for solar panels, coupled with adjacent houses and street trees that will shade parts of the roof.
Ripple's about the only way I can participate in being 'green' for generation.

 

[PITA]

In my case my house has weird small odd shaped roofs with nothing big enough for solar panels, coupled with adjacent houses and street trees that will shade parts of the roof.
Ripple's about the only way I can participate in being 'green' for generation.

It's a bit weird... but when my Wife and I drive about in our car, we often look at other peoples houses.

She looks at the location and how the houses look...

I look at their roofs... ... how flat they are, which direction they face, definately without chimney stacks or localised high trees, or bird poo and signs of ferral or rock pigeons...

...Then Dismiss anything that has any form of overhead wiring

Roofs tell me a lot actually... I think I'm a roof snob...

 

[Avendit]

In my case my house has weird small odd shaped roofs with nothing big enough for solar panels, coupled with adjacent houses and street trees that will shade parts of the roof.
Ripple's about the only way I can participate in being 'green' for generation.

Massively insulate to run on as little energy (whatever the source) and you'll be doing your bit. But owning bits of windfarm is fun too .

 

[btc1k]

In my case my house has weird small odd shaped roofs with nothing big enough for solar panels, coupled with adjacent houses and street trees that will shade parts of the roof.
Ripple's about the only way I can participate in being 'green' for generation.

What about investing in any of the other listed green generation companies?

Atrato Onsite Energy, i just invested in the IPO, targeting 8-10% annual return. Double that of Ripple.

Ripple is fancy marketing, dressed up to the general public as ‘own your own wind farm’

Buy shares in a listed co, take the dividends (use to offset energy bill if you wish), benefit from capital appreciation and new assets over time and also have liquidity.

 

[dakaix]

Just out of interest, has anyone looked at shares in the Ripple's co-op wind farm as an alternative to home solar? Looks like a decent alternative if you've not much room on your roof or facing the wrong way. Presumably less hassle as well as you don't need to get surveyors and builders and fitters traipsing all over the place drilling holes.

EDIT: Here's a link... Ripple Energy: Super simple. Powerfully green.

I bought in on the share offer for their second wind farm today, I'm doing that though in addition to fitting PV - to offset winter consumption.

 

[Avendit]

Sooo, is this ridiculous?

12 panels to the SW, generating 3800kwh
10 to the NE, generating 1700kwh
10kw battery
Generation spec'd by so.energy matches the data from PVWatts.

An 'average' day should generate ~13kwh, and a good day 34kw. Should get 10kwh 200+ days a year, 20kwh ~100 days a year and over 30kwh ~20 days a year. All on a 3.6kw inverter (almost no clipping).

Payoff is ~6 years using current octopus rates (30p/0.75p/unit), or 10 years if using this months So.energy economy 7 21p/15p eco7 rates. I am mostly leveraging the battery to absorb cheap rate power and use it to kick start the HP in the morning - it looks like it has to be a better than average day before the panels manage to put much back in throughout the day (in addition to topping off the HW that is).

Battery is good for 10k cycles, which is 13 years (warranty to 10 years). It starts beating solar alone at 9 years, and has a much higher payback rate beyond that, as long as it lasts. I imagine in 10+ years it could be replaced with something much better (PW3???), but in the mean time, running into the ground seems fine, even if its capabilities tail off a bit in the mean time.

Interest free loan to pay for it all, which we can afford.

It all seems pretty blatantly obvious that its a good idea, so am I missing something?

 

[RedMod3]

Sooo, is this ridiculous?


It all seems pretty blatantly obvious that its a good idea, so am I missing something?

Not sure where you are, but we are on the south coast and with 16 250w panels and a 3.68kW inverter, we generate 4.3MWh a year. We are going with 4 extra 375W panels and a 1.5kW Inverter to bring gross power up to 5.5kW and net 5.1kW to which we will add 27kWh in 2 Powerwalls. Not sure what rating your panels are.

 

[Avendit]

Not sure where you are, but we are on the south coast and with 16 250w panels and a 3.68kW inverter, we generate 4.3MWh a year. We are going with 4 extra 375W panels and a 1.5kW Inverter to bring gross power up to 5.5kW and net 5.1kW to which we will add 27kWh in 2 Powerwalls. Not sure what rating your panels are.

Should have said. They are quoting for 375w Eurener black panels. Not the most powerful, but not too far behind the curve. 20% and small change efficient.

Up in Edinburgh, so a fair bit less light that you on the south coast, but also a lot less heat. Being up here with the NE facing panels means that we are up and generating by 4am, and generating 1kw by 5am in the summer. NE panels peak at about 7/8am but make non-trivial contributions through to 10am.

 

[RedMod3]

Should have said. They are quoting for 375w Eurener black panels. Not the most powerful, but not too far behind the curve. 20% and small change efficient.

Up in Edinburgh, so a fair bit less light that you on the south coast, but also a lot less heat. Being up here with the NE facing panels means that we are up and generating by 4am, and generating 1kw by 5am in the summer. NE panels peak at about 7/8am but make non-trivial contributions through to 10am.

I think it is hard to estimate generation, as we were quoted 3.3MWh per year, but we have generated on average 4.3MWh.

Scotland is more generous than England with solar, and I'm thinking panels and battery on an EV type tariff must generally be good value.

 

[PITA]

Sooo, is this ridiculous?

View attachment 770464

12 panels to the SW, generating 3800kwh
10 to the NE, generating 1700kwh
10kw battery
Generation spec'd by so.energy matches the data from PVWatts.

An 'average' day should generate ~13kwh, and a good day 34kw. Should get 10kwh 200+ days a year, 20kwh ~100 days a year and over 30kwh ~20 days a year. All on a 3.6kw inverter (almost no clipping).

Payoff is ~6 years using current octopus rates (30p/0.75p/unit), or 10 years if using this months So.energy economy 7 21p/15p eco7 rates. I am mostly leveraging the battery to absorb cheap rate power and use it to kick start the HP in the morning - it looks like it has to be a better than average day before the panels manage to put much back in throughout the day (in addition to topping off the HW that is).

Battery is good for 10k cycles, which is 13 years (warranty to 10 years). It starts beating solar alone at 9 years, and has a much higher payback rate beyond that, as long as it lasts. I imagine in 10+ years it could be replaced with something much better (PW3???), but in the mean time, running into the ground seems fine, even if its capabilities tail off a bit in the mean time.

Interest free loan to pay for it all, which we can afford.

It all seems pretty blatantly obvious that its a good idea, so am I missing something?

Looks good to me...

What's your battery discharge rate, 3.5kW ??

How much power do you use in a day at home?

Do you have an EV to charge during the day?

Do you have a gateway Isolator to keep you operational in grid outage? not grid-tied.

Do you have a Smart Export Guarantee (SEG) Tariff?

 

[init6]

Sooo, is this ridiculous?

View attachment 770464

12 panels to the SW, generating 3800kwh
10 to the NE, generating 1700kwh
10kw battery
Generation spec'd by so.energy matches the data from PVWatts.

An 'average' day should generate ~13kwh, and a good day 34kw. Should get 10kwh 200+ days a year, 20kwh ~100 days a year and over 30kwh ~20 days a year. All on a 3.6kw inverter (almost no clipping).

Payoff is ~6 years using current octopus rates (30p/0.75p/unit), or 10 years if using this months So.energy economy 7 21p/15p eco7 rates. I am mostly leveraging the battery to absorb cheap rate power and use it to kick start the HP in the morning - it looks like it has to be a better than average day before the panels manage to put much back in throughout the day (in addition to topping off the HW that is).

Battery is good for 10k cycles, which is 13 years (warranty to 10 years). It starts beating solar alone at 9 years, and has a much higher payback rate beyond that, as long as it lasts. I imagine in 10+ years it could be replaced with something much better (PW3???), but in the mean time, running into the ground seems fine, even if its capabilities tail off a bit in the mean time.

Interest free loan to pay for it all, which we can afford.
It all seems pretty blatantly obvious that its a good idea, so am I missing something?

How did you work out the number of days you'd get at each kWh level?
Also to save me doing arithmetic do you mind sharing the total cost? by PM if you like.

 

[Avendit]

Looks good to me...

What's your battery discharge rate, 3.5kW ??

How much power do you use in a day at home?

Do you have an EV to charge during the day?

Do you have a gateway Isolator to keep you operational in grid outage? not grid-tied.

Do you have a Smart Export Guarantee (SEG) Tariff?

Sales guy says 3kW discharge and charge rate, I suspect from the datasheet (https://www.puredrive-energy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Home-AC-10kWh_Data_Sheet.pdf) more can be had in bursts.

There is a background continuous draw of ~10kw spread over the day - lots of PC's, servers, media stuff, fridge/freezer, plus running a HP and the M3P-

I'll check on the isolator, although we don't have many problems here.

SEG kicks in with the smartmeter install that is part of the process. So.Energy giving 5p/kW exported, but I'm expecting this to add up to less than £20/year tbh. We can use almost everything thrown at us, and on the ~20 'best' days a year we get I can soak it up into the car (Andersen A2 we have can have a CT clamp added). Not going to bother with an Eddi type device as I can achieve the same effect by using a timer on the HP to heat the tank at 1-2pm (and then gain from its COP, and 1-2am and use the cheap power). Apparently your export can be moved independantly of your import, so if we end up exporting lots I can go shopping for a better rate.

 

[PITA]

Sales guy says 3kW discharge and charge rate, I suspect from the datasheet (https://www.puredrive-energy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Home-AC-10kWh_Data_Sheet.pdf) more can be had in bursts.

There is a background continuous draw of ~10kw spread over the day - lots of PC's, servers, media stuff, fridge/freezer, plus running a HP and the M3P-

I'll check on the isolator, although we don't have many problems here.

SEG kicks in with the smartmeter install that is part of the process. So.Energy giving 5p/kW exported, but I'm expecting this to add up to less than £20/year tbh. We can use almost everything thrown at us, and on the ~20 'best' days a year we get I can soak it up into the car (Andersen A2 we have can have a CT clamp added). Not going to bother with an Eddi type device as I can achieve the same effect by using a timer on the HP to heat the tank at 1-2pm (and then gain from its COP, and 1-2am and use the cheap power). Apparently your export can be moved independantly of your import, so if we end up exporting lots I can go shopping for a better rate.

Ok... still sounds good.

So during the Spring & Summer days, if your battery is full by 10am... and you've got another 25kW of power generation coming in over the day... 10kW will be used by the house

So you'll still have a full battery and 15kW surplus for export... to the EV Charger.

If you're out in the car, I suppose you can come home and charge from the battery to drain it for more solar.

Repeated sunny days will give you a lot of power to shift about. Using the car daily will get rid of it.

 

[Avendit]

How did you work out the number of days you'd get at each kWh level?
Also to save me doing arithmetic do you mind sharing the total cost? by PM if you like.

so... starting with PVWatts, I generated output for the 2 different sides of the install, and downloaded the 2 created hourly files. These are using actual historical weather from a near(ish) weather station and your install and orientation. Dropped them both in excel, and moved the total generation from 1 into the table for the other. Added a total column.

Select all that data and create a pivot table. That can then be graphed to show the average daily generation curve for each month:

I also used it to list the sum of generation for every day of every month, then you can sort, filter and count. So in addition to the counts of days generating different levels, I also know that I will clip during aprox 28 hours of generation in the year.

I can also delve into the days by double clicking them, which gives you the generation curves for those days. I selected an average, poor and good day and looked at the daily curves and how they would integrate with the background usage and HP loading. This is 15th of April, which happend to have the closest output to the mathematical average for the year:

Here up to the total W column came from the pivot data. I then convert to kw, take off my base usage and add cooking and HP usage (from this weeks stats incidentally - really by April these should be somewhat lighter). Midnight to 4am is treated as 'free' for this calculation. The final column tracks the battery state through the day and finally after fiddling with a few scenarios you get:

With battery includes the cost of 10kw @7.5p, and shows saving ~60% on the leccy bill.

I did the same for 5th Jan and 22nd May. The middle of the road day actually shows the most benefit saving that £6. On a bad solar day, we still get the ~£2.50 saving from filling the battery over night, and on a good day we only save £3.50, mostly because that's all our consumption without the HP in the summer. Would potentially export 20kw, or we can dump that into the car, trigger a legionnaire cycle on the HP or something.

I don't have a precise written quote for this system, but it should be £13k, £5k of which is battery.

 

[Avendit]

Repeated sunny days will give you a lot of power to shift about. Using the car daily will get rid of it.

What I'm hearing here is that whenever the weather is nice I need to go for long fast drives? Sounds good to me!

 

[Avendit]

Ok... still sounds good.

So during the Spring & Summer days, if your battery is full by 10am... and you've got another 25kW of power generation coming in over the day... 10kW will be used by the house

So you'll still have a full battery and 15kW surplus for export... to the EV Charger.

If you're out in the car, I suppose you can come home and charge from the battery to drain it for more solar.

Repeated sunny days will give you a lot of power to shift about. Using the car daily will get rid of it.

Yea, looking at my 'good day' and setting the battery as if it had had the same good day the day before does create a lot of excess

That is indeed 22kwh exported . Baking? Cake is nice and must use some power?