Solar Panels UK - is it worth it?

[Chimpy McChimp]

my is boarded and batteries on the floor no issues.

Yeah mine too (boarded that is) . It would be wall hung so I don't think it was that. I was told it's not a ideal location. Along with "it's pretty heavy and bulky to get up there and they are designed to work outside"
Maybe that hinted at the truth (they didn't want to lift it!)
I'm not overly bothered as I am enjoying seeing my usage being cut significantly. But it's been pretty sunny recently.

 

[thewishy]

The Giv AIO is indeed a powerwall competitor. Prices are keen.

Main thing to be aware of between the two
- Tesla does a good job of AI overnight charging, but it's not something which you can particularly tinker with. It's set and forget, sometimes what is does isn't logical. Sometimes it is.
- Giv is very home automation friendly, it'll do what you tell it to, and you can generally understand what it's doing. But it isn't set and forget in the same way

Neither approaches is particular good or bad, but I know that I'm the sort of person who would be driven mad by not having control.

Enphase is a bit of a price premium. I'd say that a hybrid inverter system with DC coupled battery often comes out considerably better value, has some efficiency advantages of its own (No AC-DC round trip for battery storage), and is easier to get DNO approval for.
That would be something like a GivEnergy Hybrid Gen2 + a 9.5kWh battery

Inverters in loft - I suspect 75%+ of installs end up in the lofts. It's not going to help the lifespan, but it is an expected installation location

 

[scdoubleu]

I live in a detached house with a detached garage at the end of the my garden (around 10 metres away from the house)

Same here, though garage is 3-4 metres away.

I was initially thinking of putting batteries in the garage, however I’ve seen people in this thread talk about having their batteries in their loft - I suppose this is okay to do? Not sure how batteries perform in high heat (like we’ve had in the past few days)

Powerwalls are seriously heavy. I doubt you'll find an installer willing to lift it that far, even assuming your rafters are up to the job.

Our Powerwall is mounted inside the garage on the back wall, with the Gateway (brains of the Powerwall) by the meter cupboard on the house. There's about 12 metres of armoured cable linking Powerwall to Gateway, so I wouldn't expect a longer run to be a problem.

 

[KennethS]

the givenergy AIO is a PW clone in terms of functionality and I think cheaper?

13.5kwh usable, 6kw continuous charge/discharge (7.2kw peak), gateway with auto switchover of entire house etc. Seems a pretty great system and if they'd released it 6 months earlier maybe I'd have gone for that instead of their 9.5kwh. I really like their software too

The Givenergy looks excellent and had it been available when we got our first Powerwall it may have been our choice.

 

[thewishy]

Powerwalls are seriously heavy. I doubt you'll find an installer willing to lift it that far, even assuming your rafters are up to the job.

One plus for the GivAIO - the batteries are modular, so instead of a 115kw PW you're dealing with 5ish 25kg battery modules and a chassis with the inverter in it.

 

[phil4]

Powerwalls are seriously heavy. I doubt you'll find an installer willing to lift it that far, even assuming your rafters are up to the job.

probably wouldn't fir through a loft hatch either.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Batteries - is it best to get Tesla powerwalls? Or GivEnergy (or other brands) is really the only benefit of PW is because it’s Tesla and you’re already in its eco system?

I read, reasonably often, here where GIvEnergy newbie users have questions that need tinkering. Not so much with PowerWall

As already said:

PowerWall will (in most cases of power loss) cut-in before power is lost which means that clocks, computers, etc. don't "stop" (I think GivEnergy has a 13AMP socket you can plug things into ... whereas PowerWall is, in effect, a "whole house" powercut battery.

I find all-in-one APP convenient

Tesla has Storm Watch (maybe the others too) which will force the battery to charge to 100%, in good time, and then keep it there until the storm has passed - i.e. if you get a power cut battery will have 100% starting point

Battery placement

Mine are in the furthest room in an (insulated but) unheated part of the house. Only a few winter days, each year, where it falls below 10C in Winter. Since PowerWall install the room is definitely a degree or two warmer, which is a benefit as the frost heater now very rarely cuts in.

Conversely putting battery somewhere which is already warm may need ventilation in summer.

 

[Mrklaw]

I read, reasonably often, here where GIvEnergy newbie users have questions that need tinkering. Not so much with PowerWall

As already said:

PowerWall will (in most cases of power loss) cut-in before power is lost which means that clocks, computers, etc. don't "stop" (I think GivEnergy has a 13AMP socket you can plug things into ... whereas PowerWall is, in effect, a "whole house" powercut battery.

I find all-in-one APP convenient

Tesla has Storm Watch (maybe the others too) which will force the battery to charge to 100%, in good time, and then keep it there until the storm has passed - i.e. if you get a power cut battery will have 100% starting point



Mine are in the furthest room in an (insulated but) unheated part of the house. Only a few winter days, each year, where it falls below 10C in Winter. Since PowerWall install the room is definitely a degree or two warmer, which is a benefit as the frost heater now very rarely cuts in.

Conversely putting battery somewhere which is already warm may need ventilation in summer.

the sockets etc are limited EPS style things you manually switch over with the old GE batteries. the AIO comes with a gateway that seamlessly cuts over just like the PW.

While we can tweak things, thats also partly because we *can* tweak things - like battery percentage to hold overnight etc. PW is a more removed from the user in those terms - it does the thinking for you, and if that happens to work for you, great

 

[notmeguv]

Apparently the Growatt SPH 6000 inverter only has a max output of 3000W. With an induction hob and electric oven, is it likely that during winter months, even with a fully charged battery, that some power will be drawn from the grid (at peak times) with both hob and oven (and everything else in the house) running at the same time? Is this part and parcel of solar and batteries or do most people have inverters that have higher outputs?

 

[ringi]

I'd say that a hybrid inverter system with DC coupled battery often comes out considerably better value, has some efficiency advantages of its own (No AC-DC round trip for battery storage

Now with electricity/export prices it seems best to size a battery to cover nearly all winter peak time usage and to export any PV (upto export limit) rather than charge battery from PV.

Many hybred inverters don't on their own have a high enough battery charge rate if a home will have heatpump etc. Yet integrating two battery systems is not easy.

 

[yessuz]

Apparently the Growatt SPH 6000 inverter only has a max output of 3000W. With an induction hob and electric oven, is it likely that during winter months, even with a fully charged battery, that some power will be drawn from the grid (at peak times) with both hob and oven (and everything else in the house) running at the same time? Is this part and parcel of solar and batteries or do most people have inverters that have higher outputs?

Nope, SPH6000 is 6kw/27A AC output from solar
https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/pdfs/growatt-sph3000-6000-hybrid-datasheet.pdf

It is actually a battery which has limitations.

However, if inverter is nit sufficient - it will be very easy to replace it...
Anyhow, usual house load is 400w ir so. In these rare instances I get small load from grid if it exceeds 3 kw, like kettle on.. but is is fir short time and just few hundred watts.. negligible

 

[MrT3]

Apparently the Growatt SPH 6000 inverter only has a max output of 3000W. With an induction hob and electric oven, is it likely that during winter months, even with a fully charged battery, that some power will be drawn from the grid (at peak times) with both hob and oven (and everything else in the house) running at the same time? Is this part and parcel of solar and batteries or do most people have inverters that have higher outputs?

Very easy to go past the inverter and/or battery output rates if you have electric cooking. A couple of rings on the hob, the oven and microwave all on will exceed any domestic battery system but they are typically cycling on and off so aren’t always all on together and when they are it is only for a short time.

 

[djtaylor]

I've given up trying to explain this stuff to my wife. She would bang everything on at the same time both jobs and oven, boil the kettle, put the iron on to warm up and use the vacuum cleaner (whole house central vacuum 2kWh motor)

It was easier to become the main cook and certainly less stressful.

 

[Avendit]

Wow. Samsung now have a heatpump that can do 70 degrees at a COP of 5! Stunning:

Samsung unveils monobloc heat pump for residential applications

Samsung claims its new product is able provide domestic hot water of up to 75 C when the outdoor temperature is between -10 C and 35 C. It relies on an enlarged heat exchanger that the company claims is capable of transferring more heat compared to a conventional outdoor unit.

www.pv-magazine.com

 

[Chimpy McChimp]

I've given up trying to explain this stuff to my wife. She would bang everything on at the same time both jobs and oven, boil the kettle, put the iron on to warm up and use the vacuum cleaner (whole house central vacuum 2kWh motor)

It was easier to become the main cook and certainly less stressful.

Mrs McChimp was like that but since she downloaded the givenergy app she has started paying a lot more attention to how much we are using. She even agreed to turn off the hot tub for a while as she hasn't used it for a while!!

 

[ACarneiro]

Wow. Samsung now have a heatpump that can do 70 degrees at a COP of 5! Stunning:

Samsung unveils monobloc heat pump for residential applications

Samsung claims its new product is able provide domestic hot water of up to 75 C when the outdoor temperature is between -10 C and 35 C. It relies on an enlarged heat exchanger that the company claims is capable of transferring more heat compared to a conventional outdoor unit.

www.pv-magazine.com

Sounds great, I wonder when you could actually get your hands on one…

 

[Avendit]

Sounds great, I wonder when you could actually get your hands on one…

Probably a while knowing Samsung . OTOH, they may eventually start making them in the central belt (I think they have a factory here??) So eventually will have an ok availability. Maybe.

 

[ACarneiro]

I think I’ll wait for something like this to be available before taking the Heat Pump plunge, then.
Thank you for the tip!

 

[phil4]

While we can tweak things, thats also partly because we *can* tweak things - like battery percentage to hold overnight etc. PW is a more removed from the user in those terms - it does the thinking for you, and if that happens to work for you, great

Yes, and no, sort of. Yes the interface for the PW gives you very little to tinker with, the API and HA do allow you do, as you mentioned an overnight battery hold. It's just not as user focussed as the app.

 

[Avendit]

I think I’ll wait for something like this to be available before taking the Heat Pump plunge, then.
Thank you for the tip!

I've said this to lots of people - HP's do work and 3 years ago when we got ours it's cost neutral to run Vs gas, but...

The tech is still improving really fast. If you need one now it's fine, but if you have a working modern boiler that isn't an ecological disaster, wait for it to die. Every year you can leave it you will get a better HP with higher temps (less disruption to install) or higher efficiency. Even doing this we all end up with an HP in the next 10 years which is all we need.

I think we are past the original leaf equivalent of an HP, but we don't have taycans, Tesla's or ID4's yet. Coming tho, going to be 100% compelling soon.