Solar+Powerwall Canceled on Day of Install on Due to Complications

[evalltheway]

First time posting on this forum. I'm in a very frustrated mode right now so apologies if any part of my post is too strong.

So I've been following this forum, learning a lot and was very excited to have my 5.78 kW Solar, 1 Powerwall installed today (Dec 18th) in San Jose. The lead electrician showed up timely and his first comment was we can't install the equipment next to your main panel as you have a PGE gas pipe within 3 feet. I was like but the Tesla person had come a few weeks back for a site visit and didn't foresee any issues and his response was "yeah they don't really understand the code or PGE requirements". I don't understand what is point of sending someone for a site visit and help design when they don't understand the code?!?

As if this was not enough, he said my powerwall install inside the garage needed a bollard per the code. I was again taken back and said I wasn't informed of that and having a bollard means I can't park my 2 cars inside unless I move all my storage, extra fridge etc. which I hadn't planned on doing or even discussed with my wife because again I was told I didn't need to do anything like that from the person who came for site visit.

The lead installer apologized, said its frustrating Tesla doesn't send someone more knowledgeable for site visit and that even if they found a way to make things happen by putting the equipment outside (in his words it is very complicated and would need conduits running front of my home which is very ugly and might need taking out and rebuilding my wall) this would be a complicated job and they wouldn't want to take it on right now given EOY push and that they want to complete as many simple projects as possible.

So..... Obviously I"m super frustrated and part of me doesn't even want to move forward. Are others who are putting a powerwall inside the garage being asked to put a bollard as well? What are you doing in cases where you PGE Gas line is within 3 feet of the main panel?

 

[getakey]

I have 3 PWs in garage with no bollard. I'm in Sacramento area

 

[h2ofun]

wow, just wow. This is why I am trying to go through all the details in detail to avoid this stuff. I have found issues/questions with my engineering drawings that are at the county for the permit. I am asking about the tax process since I seem to be getting different answers. This site has been GREAT bringing up issues. Even though I would like the PW's inside, I just keep hearing and reading issues about this since I would just put them outside, issues, solved.

 

[holeydonut]

You'll want to read my thread about this topic here: Summary of options for 3-foot requirement between main panel and gas riser

If you are getting an "upgraded" service panel (like 125 A becoming 200 A) to your home, then you need to have a 3 foot gap between the riser and your new panel. If this is the case, I hope you have an above ground service entry line since an upgrade to underground service is Expen$ive.

If your project simply involves a "like for like" replacement (such as 125 A becoming a new 125 A), you should be able to get the work done without incurring extra cost beyond the installation of the replacement main panel.

Regarding the Bollard, if the Powerwall is going on the wall that your headlights shine on, I think it's a requirement everywhere in the Bay Area to get a bollard. How strong of a bollard is still being debated. Some installers are basically affixing a very rinky-dink bollard that homeowners are basically removing after inspection. I believe there is no bollard requirement if your Powerwall is on the side of the garage that doesn't face the car head-on. Or you can try an exterior-mounted Powerwall.

 

[h2ofun]

I have 3 PWs in garage with no bollard. I'm in Sacramento area

What are these bollards? Do they stop a car from hitting PW's? They would sure take a lot of room in a garage, and may cost some money to install?

What is nuts is the code is different between counties, and or different inspectors enforce different codes. I have seen this on my house remodel

 

[wjgjr]

That sucks, and you certainly should be frustrated that Tesla sends out inspectors who don't catch these known items. (I don't know the specific rules, but I do know the topics of the 3' gas spacing and the bollards have come up for others.) It is ridiculous to put customers through that, and it is also a waste of time for Tesla.

I can understand why you might want to cancel, but I would suggest taking a bit of time to consider the options, and then talking to Tesla about next steps. Depending on what they are willing to do (are they going to hit you with big charges for the bollards and/or different placement of the equipment, and are they going to offer to cover the 4% ITC difference, since it is their screw-up that delayed the job) it still may be a much better value than other installers. The issues Tesla identified would likely be the same for any similar solar install job.

 

[holeydonut]

What are these bollards? Do they stop a car from hitting PW's? They would sure take a lot of room in a garage, and may cost some money to install?

What is nuts is the code is different between counties, and or different inspectors enforce different codes. I have seen this on my house remodel

It's these vertical posts to prevent an unintended acceleration event from busting into your Powerwalls. But the codes are kind of vague about how strong the bollards have to be. Some installers are simply bolting these without the concrete filling. So a homeowner can just take them out later after inspection. I'm 100% sure that's not in the spirit of the bollard rules, so you can expect required blocking forces to be able to stop a Tesla Cybertruck (tri motor?) soon.

Standard Safety Bollard - 4 1/2 x 24", Removable H-5555R - Uline

 

[ThomasD]

Standard Safety Bollard - 4 1⁄2 x 36", Fixed
Concrete Installation Kit and 10' Steel Chain available.

 

[ThomasD]

Standard Safety Bollard - 4 1⁄2 x 36", Fixed

 

[h2ofun]

It's these vertical posts to prevent an unintended acceleration event from busting into your Powerwalls. But the codes are kind of vague about how strong the bollards have to be. Some installers are simply bolting these without the concrete filling. So a homeowner can just take them out later after inspection. I'm 100% sure that's not in the spirit of the bollard rules, so you can expect required blocking forces to be able to stop a Tesla Cybertruck (tri motor?) soon.

Standard Safety Bollard - 4 1/2 x 24", Removable H-5555R - Uline

In my garage, no thanks.

Your key points, what is the written code? And if one takes something out, then when one goes to sell, one has to disclose, or risk a law suit from a buyer.

 

[evalltheway]

You'll want to read my thread about this topic here: Summary of options for 3-foot requirement between main panel and gas riser

If you are getting an "upgraded" service panel (like 125 A becoming 200 A) to your home, then you need to have a 3 foot gap between the riser and your new panel. If this is the case, I hope you have an above ground service entry line since an upgrade to underground service is Expen$ive.

If your project simply involves a "like for like" replacement (such as 125 A becoming a new 125 A), you should be able to get the work done without incurring extra cost beyond the installation of the replacement main panel.

I don't need any upgrades to the main panel as I already have a 200 amp main panel. To make sure I understand, is the 3 feet gap not needed if I'm not upgrading my main panel? The lead installer gave me the impression that they can't put any of their equipment next to my main panel due to the minimum 3 feet gap pipeline code. I've exactly the same homes next to mine who have solar equipment installed next to their main panel and the installer said they might be grandfathered as it is a relatively new code.

Regarding the Bollard, if the Powerwall is going on the wall that your headlights shine on, I think it's a requirement everywhere in the Bay Area to get a bollard. How strong of a bollard is still being debated. Some installers are basically affixing a very rinky-dink bollard that homeowners are basically removing after inspection. I believe there is no bollard requirement if your Powerwall is on the side of the garage that doesn't face the car head-on. Or you can try an exterior-mounted Powerwall.

My powerwall were going on the side wall. I told the installer there is no way I could hit the car on the side wall unless I really wanted and that was my intention I'm sure I could find a way to sabotage things using a hammer. The installer told that irrespective where it goes on the garage wall, I need a bollard.

I'm now beginning to wonder if the installer just didn't want to do the job.

 

[evalltheway]

Apologies for the weird formatting. New to this forum and learning how to quote correctly.

 

[holeydonut]

In my garage, no thanks.

Your key points, what is the written code? And if one takes something out, then when one goes to sell, one has to disclose, or risk a law suit from a buyer.

Honestly I couldn't find any actual code language in East Bay that said bollards (vertical post, N-shape, parking stop barricade, or gigantic ass air bag) were required. But when I spoke with the Sunrun team doing the install, they said they failed about a dozen inspections all over East Bay due to lack of bollards. But they've been able to pass inspections with "really crappy" bollards that homeowners are just taking out later. To your point, the bollard probably has to be put back in place if you're selling the house or doing some garage renovation that may re-invite an inspector into your house.

I'm picturing inspectors having some secret underground society where they all share stores about how they got homeowners to do wacky things (in the name of safety of course). I'm sure one of these day's they'll require these with concrete filling.

 

[run-the-joules]

I had a similar-but-not-exactly-the-same situation with my gas riser, explanation and fix is explained below:


My main panel only had 4 slots total, containing a 100a 2-pole going to my subpanel in the garage, on the other side of the same wall about 18 feet away, and a 50a 2-pole for my AC.

My subpanel only had 1 available slot.

They added a load center on the outside of the garage wall about 15 feet down the wall, intercepted the feed for the subpanel and connected to a 100a breaker in the load center, then added the breaker for the PV, and connected the subpanel to this load center.

The electrician asked before started if I was planning on adding powerwalls down the road, and I said "yes, absolutely", so he installed the load center and inverter in the way he would have if powerwalls were being mounted there (outside, my garage is quite small and has built-in shelving I don't want to remove for powerwalls to be mounted intside), so that no rework is necessary when I get those down the road.

Added bonus is that the load center had a bajillion extra slots available, so after doing the math and confirming I could support the load, I wired in my HPWC to it and finally have L2 charging at home again.

 

[getakey]

You'll want to read my thread about this topic here: Summary of options for 3-foot requirement between main panel and gas riser

If you are getting an "upgraded" service panel (like 125 A becoming 200 A) to your home, then you need to have a 3 foot gap between the riser and your new panel. If this is the case, I hope you have an above ground service entry line since an upgrade to underground service is Expen$ive.

If your project simply involves a "like for like" replacement (such as 125 A becoming a new 125 A), you should be able to get the work done without incurring extra cost beyond the installation of the replacement main panel.

Regarding the Bollard, if the Powerwall is going on the wall that your headlights shine on, I think it's a requirement everywhere in the Bay Area to get a bollard. How strong of a bollard is still being debated. Some installers are basically affixing a very rinky-dink bollard that homeowners are basically removing after inspection. I believe there is no bollard requirement if your Powerwall is on the side of the garage that doesn't face the car head-on. Or you can try an exterior-mounted Powerwall.

My PWs are straight inline with headlights. No bollard. Is this a Bay area/County requirement or State?

 

[evalltheway]

That sucks, and you certainly should be frustrated that Tesla sends out inspectors who don't catch these known items. (I don't know the specific rules, but I do know the topics of the 3' gas spacing and the bollards have come up for others.) It is ridiculous to put customers through that, and it is also a waste of time for Tesla.

I can understand why you might want to cancel, but I would suggest taking a bit of time to consider the options, and then talking to Tesla about next steps. Depending on what they are willing to do (are they going to hit you with big charges for the bollards and/or different placement of the equipment, and are they going to offer to cover the 4% ITC difference, since it is their screw-up that delayed the job) it still may be a much better value than other installers. The issues Tesla identified would likely be the same for any similar solar install job.

Thanks - I agree about taking some time to think through next steps vs just canceling immediately. I'm most interested in understanding if the issues the installer stated (Bollards needed even if powerwall is on side walls, Can't put their equipment next to main panel even if there is no upgrade needed) are even right/applicable in my situation.

 

[patrick40363]

No bollard required when my side by side powerwalls in my garage were installed. I live in unincorporated Sonoma county CA.

 

[mnsweeps]

Bollards are required when you have powerwalls in direction of the car being parked. I already have a bollard in front of my gas water heater inside my garage (just saying). I have my powerwalls outside so no issues at all and I am loving it but the Tesla guy who came confirmed I would need bollards if I install inside. Also the 3 ft from gas riser is per code..sorry your Tesla surveyor who came seems to be a incompetent person.

 

[jboy210]

This sucks. We have two wall-mounted Powerwalls at the rear car door. No bollards. We are in Alameda County.

But, it varies by location. We had a condo in Mountain House (San Joaquin country) that required 2 bollards for a water heater mounted on a pier at the rear taillight of the car. No way to hit it with a car unless you powerslide into the garage and then took out 6" of concrete.

 

[run-the-joules]

No way to hit it with a car unless you powerslide into the garage and then took out 6" of concrete.

Wait, do other people not do that?