Solar Roof, big price increase

[jimm01]

Yes, if Tesla was just proposing a change in the solar portion and only for that reason, or if there was a change at the site that resulted in a required change in the solar portion. In fact, Tesla send me a revised agreement, which I signed, before they agreed to schedule the work. In any case, this is limit to just those changes—not added complexity due to unforeseen conditions.

From what I understand the price escalations people are experiencing can't account for just a change in a solar portion. Unless the solar roof was considerably resized, what's the most one could expect; $10k? If so, I would expect the system size in kW or gross estimate in kWh would also increase; or possibly there were different Powerwalls, or other components (e.g. inverter, rapid shutdown device, mid-circuit interrupters, etc.)

It’s also possible for a change in the solar portion to result in a decrease in price. For example if the system was downsized, which is what happened to me because the local power company limited my home to 10.28 kW. Finally, the way I understand it unforeseen conditions are limited to what the installer could no reasonably foresee. As a licensed professional they cannot claim something unforeseen that is something they are require to know, at least in NJ.

 

[DoodleX]

As a licensed professional they cannot claim something unforeseen that is something they are require to know, at least in NJ.

Yup. And this public admission by Elon about their mistakes in pricing wouldn't help.

News and Trends

The latest news, videos, and discussion topics on News and Trends - Entrepreneur

www.entrepreneur.com

 

[jimm01]

Things are starting to add up, or they aren’t. It looks like there was no margin to begin with.

Tesla's Uninspiring Solar Roof Performance

Photo by Petmal/iStock via Getty Images Introduction When Tesla (TSLA) was in the process of acquiring SolarCity in 2016, another Elon Musk controlled company, the purchase was largely justified by SolarCity's "cutting edge" solar roof product, which was about to be launched. In October of 2016...

news.google.com

 

[Mattallica]

The costs are insane. This was marketed as being lighter, cheaper and better environmentals than stand roofing methods (in the UK, shale roof tiles).
At those costs it is around 400% more expensive than standard roofing shale tiles.

 

[FurryOne]

Things are starting to add up, or they aren’t. It looks like there was no margin to begin with.

Tesla's Uninspiring Solar Roof Performance

Photo by Petmal/iStock via Getty Images Introduction When Tesla (TSLA) was in the process of acquiring SolarCity in 2016, another Elon Musk controlled company, the purchase was largely justified by SolarCity's "cutting edge" solar roof product, which was about to be launched. In October of 2016...

news.google.com

And therein lies the problem - Tesla was loosing loads of money on the Solar Roof, and they had 2 options - raise the price to something more realistic or leave the business. It's obvious that people that got their solar roofs installed under the old pricing scheme got a hell of a deal compared to what it actually cost. I can understand the anger from people that did preemptive work and now won't be getting their roof due to the increased cost. But those people that are demanding that Tesla honor a money loosing price need to realize that Tesla can just drop the roof as a product altogether rather than throw more money down the drain. Grow up and move on - that's life.

 

[jimm01]

And therein lies the problem - Tesla was loosing loads of money on the Solar Roof, and they had 2 options - raise the price to something more realistic or leave the business. It's obvious that people that got their solar roofs installed under the old pricing scheme got a hell of a deal compared to what it actually cost. I can understand the anger from people that did preemptive work and now won't be getting their roof due to the increased cost. But those people that are demanding that Tesla honor a money loosing price need to realize that Tesla can just drop the roof as a product altogether rather than throw more money down the drain. Grow up and move on - that's life.

I don't expect Tesla to just keep installing loss-leaders, but ... Based on the data in the article Tesla energy is either grossly incompetent or has engage in fraud. At least in NJ:

"The NJCFA prohibits any unconscionable commercial practice, deception, fraud, false pretense, false promise, misrepresentation, or the knowing concealment, suppression, or omission of any material fact in connection with the sale of goods, services or real estate. N.J.S.A. 56:8-2. The CFA is applied broadly and liberally construed in favor of consumers to root out consumer fraud."

Only discovery may possibly tell.

Also, based on my experience of having a Tesla Soler Roof installed the NJ Home Improvement Contractor Registration Regulations, and the NJ Home Improvement Practices Regulations.

 

[winfield100]

I'm a homeowner in CT. Order date of August 24, 2020. As I understand the process, we are currently in the permitting phase with Tesla being ridiculously slow to submit the proper documentation, and address questions/comments, to my local power company. Order is for 7.89 kW of Solar and 2 powerwalls. Price went from 45k to 70k, which is about a 55% price increase. No change to the Layout at all. I'm not sure where I can find what complexity they believe my roof is, but when I go to the online quote estimator the difference between the complexity of the roofs is about 10k. Nowhere near the 25k increase they are trying to get. Whole reason I ordered is because a Tree fell on my house last August and put holes in my roof. I've been working with temporary patches since, holding out hope that they hold until Tesla installs the roof. This is just not right...View attachment 653111View attachment 653112

So are you saying you want Tesla to both install a PV system AND repair storm damage to your roof that either you or your insurance should have taken care of over the last year?

sounds kind of queasy commingling costs of a roof repair and PV install, hoping Tesla would pick up both costs.

when hurricane Irma damaged my roof, I repaired and paid for that damage prior to installing my 11,655 (DC), 9,907 (AC) system that manufacture

 

[winfield100]

There are no "plants" in this thread. I have read the entire thread, and there are people expressing various opinions. Other than the new people who have seemingly joined TMC just to discuss this topic, I recognize every user name in this thread, and all are regular users with their own opinions.

Doesnt mean I agree with all of them all the time, but there is no requirement to be pro (or anti) anything here, just to be cordial to each other when having discussions.

I also dont think its necessarily the best idea to join a website discussion as a new person and start throwing around accusations. I fully get that people are upset, but this website is not affiliated with tesla, and while its a large one with many members, in this section of TMC I have never seen any evidence of people attempting to "shill" for anything.

@jjrandorin
however, this entire thread is mentioned in the comments section of a “seeking alfie” article by bill cunningham, a TSLA _short_.
So this thread is most likely scraped by their bots, things taken out of context, by “maxedoutgassymommas” and may be infested with those wishing ill will to all things Tesla after losing over $40 Billions shorts in aggregate

 

[winfield100]

as a point of information,
327 of the ~790 posts here have been made by commenters who joined in 2021, most of which joined as recently as the last 2 months, a few who seem to be “care bears” or moles from SA. (maxedoutgassymomma?)

having had 2 PV systems since 1999, as a homeowner, it should be obvious that a PV structure that will last 20-30 years should have not necessarily a “new roof” but a roof that will last the 20-30 years or more, and that a flat, straight plane is far less expensive to install and less complex

this means structural damage should be repaired at ==>homeowners<== expense or added to contract knowing those can be flexible expenses when hidden damages are found.

I wanted Tesla roof but went elsewhere because they didn’t install in my area @$2.65/watt, $1.86/watt after 30% fed tax credit.

the costs would be lower now

i generate 17,400 kWh/year, going on 31 months, ~170% of my needs.
there are legitimate complaints here, but some seem to be less than so

 

[jjrandorin]

@jjrandorin
however, this entire thread is mentioned in the comments section of a “seeking alfie” article by bill cunningham, a TSLA _short_.
So this thread is most likely scraped by their bots, things taken out of context, by “maxedoutgassymommas” and may be infested with those wishing ill will to all things Tesla after losing over $40 Billions shorts in aggregate

(moderator note)
I dont really care about where else online this thread may or may not be discussed, but this thread is not for discussion of "Tesla shorts" or anything of that nature. Feel free to debate the situation itself, whether you see merits in it or not, etc, but the other part of that discussion is not for this thread.

Its obvious that a lot of new people joined here to talk about this situation, and thats fine. Its also fine if you have a different opinion, about who is liable for what, thats all in the realm of discussion.

What isnt fine is insulting a bunch of people because they dont feel like you do, or dont believe the same thing you do about this situation or any other. Keep the posts to the situation, and away from calling anyone names, or insinuations that because people are complaining they must be plants or something.

 

[BGbreeder]

Things are starting to add up, or they aren’t. It looks like there was no margin to begin with.

Tesla's Uninspiring Solar Roof Performance

Photo by Petmal/iStock via Getty Images Introduction When Tesla (TSLA) was in the process of acquiring SolarCity in 2016, another Elon Musk controlled company, the purchase was largely justified by SolarCity's "cutting edge" solar roof product, which was about to be launched. In October of 2016...

news.google.com

Off the bat: I have no investment or shorts on TSLA.

I do have a long standing interest in solar, and have followed the Solar City acquisition in some detail. (Which made no economic sense to me at the time, but I readily admit that in an acquisition there are lots of things that don't get disclosed public that may be highly relevant to value.) From what I know, the author touches on a number of valid points both about the acquisition and about the solar roofs.

@jjrandorin: thanks for sharing a data filled article that certainly seems consistent with users experience here.

As many here have pointed out, there appears to be a certain lack of organization and project management involved in the solar roofs. I get the run fast and break things mentality in a startup. I also get that when the left hand doesn't know the right is doing, products get mispriced or worse.

Do I have any clue what a solar roof really costs? Of course not, but the author does a great job of inferring roughly what it must cost based on Tesla's disclosed numbers. The resulting estimates on roof costs aren't pretty, but they don't have to be unless you think that the solar roof should cost less than a regular roof and a solar panel system. To which, I would ask why would you think that? The Chinese are experimenting with 5 meter wide panels to reduce manufacturing and installation costs. A solar roof goes the other way, with lots of little hand applied tiles. By any sniff test, it is going to be more expensive. That doesn't make it bad, just pricey.

I think that the author makes a good case for Tesla grossly mispricing the roofs. Does that mean that I think they behaved appropriately sending owners to be repriced contracts with a "take it or leave it note"? Not an icicle's chance in Hades. Am I a lawyer? No. I don't play one on TV, either. But the author makes a case for why Tesla may have done so. I do think that in regulated industries, like say construction, and unlike say software, there tend to be repercussions when regulated business don't adhere to the regulations. I have no insights one way or the other how various contractor licensing boards will view the solar roof repricing. I have lived in areas where the licensing boards were more than just dysfunctional, so I don't have any confidence that the boards will do much. Tesla appears to be hoping it will blow over. Whether it will or not is way beyond my pay grade or understanding.

For those of you that got a contract repriced, you have my sympathy.

All the best,

BG

 

[jjrandorin]

@BGbreeder , it wasnt me that linked that article, I believe it was @jimm01.

 

[BGbreeder]

@BGbreeder , it wasnt me that linked that article, I believe it was @jimm01.

Oops! My bad. Sorry to both of you. @jimm01

All the best,

BG

 

[DoodleX]

But those people that are demanding that Tesla honor a money loosing price need to realize that Tesla can just drop the roof as a product altogether rather than throw more money down the drain. Grow up and move on - that's life.

Yes, that is definitely a possibility in theory, on the "why" Tesla is doing this, and "how" it could wash its hands off the affair. But, you have a bunch of homeowners here who signed perfectly legit contracts, Tesla even got the permitting done before they came up with this poor stunt. That's not life, it's not something to accept and move on. There are avenues to make your case, and either (a) make them honor their contract or (b) pay damages. Yes, it's not perfect; yes, it will take its own sweet time, but that doesn't mean we sit back and take it.

 

[FurryOne]

That's not life, it's not something to accept and move on. There are avenues to make your case, and either (a) make them honor their contract or (b) pay damages. Yes, it's not perfect; yes, it will take its own sweet time, but that doesn't mean we sit back and take it.

Man up dude. It's not like you have thousands of $$ invested. Yes, you have time, which is equal to zero because you did zero work except filling out some paperwork, and waited. Quit acting "entitled."

 

[RyanW194]

Man up dude. It's not like you have thousands of $$ invested. Yes, you have time, which is equal to zero because you did zero work except filling out some paperwork, and waited. Quit acting "entitled."

I dont understand this. I would have been perfectly happy if I was on a waitlist or have paid a deposit until they were ready or closer to ready to provide accurate pricing.
I did not ask to be in a contract , in fact I would have preferred not to be -but I am and have been for over a year because that's what Tesla wanted.
They have yet to actually install any solar roofs in my area. Even though they pulled permits for my install last June.
Why would you lock people in to contracts at a point in time when you have zero ability to provide the product in the timeframe promised.

 

[h2ofun]

I dont understand this. I would have been perfectly happy if I was on a waitlist or have paid a deposit until they were ready or closer to ready to provide accurate pricing.
I did not ask to be in a contract , in fact I would have preferred not to be -but I am and have been for over a year because that's what Tesla wanted.
They have yet to actually install any solar roofs in my area. Even though they pulled permits for my install last June.
Why would you lock people in to contracts at a point in time when you have zero ability to provide the product in the timeframe promised.

I am now 4 months with an order for garage doors. Because of covid, texas issues, etc., I have yet to get. I do not know when I will get. I have no idea if they will cancel or give me a huge price increase. Life happens.

 

[FurryOne]

I dont understand this. I would have been perfectly happy if I was on a waitlist or have paid a deposit until they were ready or closer to ready to provide accurate pricing. I did not ask to be in a contract , in fact I would have preferred not to be -but I am and have been for over a year because that's what Tesla wanted.

This makes little sense. You ARE on a waitlist, and you DID put down a small deposit.

They have yet to actually install any solar roofs in my area. Even though they pulled permits for my install last June.
Why would you lock people in to contracts at a point in time when you have zero ability to provide the product in the timeframe promised.

Maybe the idea is to have a list of prospective buyers ready to hopefully entice a local installer to get certified in your area? I ordered a solar roof and later found out that there was no timeline for getting a local installer, so I cancelled and switched to solar panels. All it takes is a few clicks of a mouse to cancel one and order the other. As for the timeline - that happens al the time with fairly new products.

 

[DoodleX]

Man up dude. It's not like you have thousands of $$ invested. Yes, you have time, which is equal to zero because you did zero work except filling out some paperwork, and waited. Quit acting "entitled."

Pretty big assumptions for a fully grown adult there. What makes you think folks on this forum are acting "entitled" because they filled an online form and put a $100 deposit and did "zero work"? This is not a preorder for some gimmick on kickstarter that didn't pan out.

If you care to read the whole thread, you'd know folks are in the middle of construction, some have taken loans to install this product. So, yes: there are people who have invested $$, because a fully enforceable contract was signed between two parties.

Something to consider: "moving on" is exactly what Tesla wants i.e. letting a big corporation unilaterally change the terms of contract and walk all over you. If you have a spine, you'd stand up for yourself and others, not cower down under the pretext of "dealing with it" and "moving on".

 

[winfield100]

Pretty big assumptions for a fully grown adult there. What makes you think folks on this forum are acting "entitled" because they filled an online form and put a $100 deposit and did "zero work"? This is not a preorder for some gimmick on kickstarter that didn't pan out.

If you care to read the whole thread, you'd know folks are in the middle of construction, some have taken loans to install this product. So, yes: there are people who have invested $$, because a fully enforceable contract was signed between two parties.

Something to consider: "moving on" is exactly what Tesla wants i.e. letting a big corporation unilaterally change the terms of contract and walk all over you. If you have a spine, you'd stand up for yourself and others, not cower down under the pretext of "dealing with it" and "moving on".

yes, go back and read the whole thread.
perhaps there may have been unrealistic expectations on both sides.

look at the demo house. A finished house with no defects or deficiencies and an easy install with potentially few if any problems, a clean install.

then read, folks in the middle of construction, at least one with a tree falling on the roof in August 2020. Others delayed for other reasons many legitimate, but birthing pains and startup problems.

22 years ago I had my first PV system installed.
I made certain as best as possible it would be a clean install, completely re-roofing, beefing up a number of the rafters so all that would be necessary was installing panels and inverters, since it would last 20-30 years.

it lasted 20 years and the roof needed work, but it was 20 years and cost was $12/watt, a little over $12,000 but with a 50% subsidy

2.5 years ago, another PV on a different house, again, hurricane damage so at my and insurance companies expense, re-roofed, fixed, _then_ searched and got PV system for a _clean_ install without delays by not muddying the waters with an “oh by the way, fix the roof for an unknown cost, the contract says this is all i will pay”

another clean install at $2.65/watt, $1.86 fed tax 30% adjustment, a far lower price in $/watt.

I wanted to go with Tesla, but am very educated about PV having dealt with renewables since the early 1970’s, saw delays and growing pains and “we don’t install in your area yet”

it seems there may have been unrealistic expectations on both sides not realizing how long construction may take, etc. and newbies on both sides