I’m in the middle of an installation right now. While I agree that there have been some hiccups and miscommunication, not to mention long timelines, my experience has been positive overall. Also the roof looks amazing and is unlike any competing product. Others reading this should know that your experience is not typical based on my experience.
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Solar Roof, big price increase
- Thread starter nicholb
- Start date
Furthermore, one of the installers told me there are 9 crews just based out of Martinez (one of several Bay Area hubs). The whole team was here at 7 am this morning and will also work tomorrow, their 7th day in a row, to try and finish by week’s end. I haven’t rushed them in any way so I can only assume demand is ‘through the roof’. This whole thread seems to ignore that fact.
jimm01
Member
“The Pennsylvania couple's attorney, Peter Muhic, of LeVan Muhic Stapleton, is also co-counsel on the new filing in California.”
“‘We seek nationwide relief,’ he said via email, noting that the suits included plaintiffs from California, Florida, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania.”
“‘We seek nationwide relief,’ he said via email, noting that the suits included plaintiffs from California, Florida, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania.”
Tesla Solar Roof: California may combine complaints into class-action suit
A California judge will decide whether to combine two complaints against Tesla seeking class-action status for price hikes for Solar Roof projects.
www.google.com
jimm01
Member
This sounds like good news, but I still think this is a dual edged sword. The time it will take for the judge to certify this as a class-action can be many months away. Meanwhile, some homeowners are stranded in the middle of a remodel/new build without a roof. I am doubtful if everyone's circumstance would allow them to wait that long. Even if they do wait, I doubt the class-action will award performance of contract. So, Tesla will end up paying some damages. And, this is exactly how Tesla would want this to play out. Weed out most of the plaintiffs by elongating this process and water down the class-action claim to a point, that the judge would agree there are too few affected by this, and should just be settled through individual arbitrations.“The Pennsylvania couple's attorney, Peter Muhic, of LeVan Muhic Stapleton, is also co-counsel on the new filing in California.”
“‘We seek nationwide relief,’ he said via email, noting that the suits included plaintiffs from California, Florida, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania.”
Tesla Solar Roof: California may combine complaints into class-action suit
A California judge will decide whether to combine two complaints against Tesla seeking class-action status for price hikes for Solar Roof projects.www.google.com
So rather than wait for that point to come, from a homeowner's standpoint, arbitration seems like the best recourse for a timely resolution. It's sad that after having a clear case of breach of contract, the system still feels rigged in favor of Tesla.
In terms of damages to claim, I do see some fixed cost and some variable costs to consider:
1. Fixed costs: skylight work, electric line, trees etc., any decisions made depending on the solar roof
2. Variable: Loss of use, Delay penalties to be paid to other sub-contractors, personal time
Disclaimer: This is not legal advice. I'm not a lawyer, but I have been discussing this with a few attorney friends including one who specializes in class-action.
I laugh on trees. So, one would not have done this for solar panels? Of if one was to have had to do a re-roof? What costs are 100% because it was a solar roof? I am going to guess zero. Solar roof, solar panels, would all need the same stuff I believe
Yeah, the trees part is iffy for sure. But the point is solar roof and solar panels are not equivalent products. Solar roof is being marketed as a fully integrated solution and is not just an alternative to solar panel. Believe it or not, there are HOAs out there who don't allow solar panels to maintain the "harmony" of their communities. For them, solar roof would be the only option.
Another point, which I'm not fully sure about is if the system can be sized to produce more with a solar roof than an equivalent solar panel. I'm thinking because of the granularity with which you can design the active VS non-active areas to cover the entire roof. With a solar panel, even if you did want to: you may not choose to cover your entire roof with panels.
I understand, but my questions still stand. What costs would only happen with a solar roof, and not panels. I cannot think of any
Yes, it is still a valid question. Let's say that your energy needs required a 10kW system. The design that would give you that with a solar roof and solar panels will not be identical. Because, they are not equivalent products in terms of how they integrate with your roof structure. Primary difference is the granularity with which tiles are installed VS panels. If the resultant designs are indeed different, then it's not out of the realm of possibility that the preparation associated with those two options will be different.
Next Question is: how drastically different would that be? This would be a function of the house itself and could be significant in some cases.
Apart from this, in my personal opinion, given the integrated nature of solar roof, I'd be more inclined to supersize the system to accommodate for future needs. Heck, I might make decisions on how much windows/glass surfaces I add to the house and influence the system size because it is more scalable with an integrated roof product. Again, that's a personal opinion: that I don't want a roof cluttered with solar panels everywhere. So the decisions I would make if I only had a solar panel option would be VERY different than a solar roof option.
And consequently, the costs for either options end up looking very different as well.
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jimm01
Member
I don't think Tesla understands it has entered the home improvement/construction industry where in many states there are statutes that won't let them get away with just saying "My bad." Although I don't think many will get much out of Tesla, but contacting CA, NV and your state of residence department of community affairs or license board may provide some redress (in NJ you could end up with treble damages plus all other costs and attorney fees). In any case, the worse thing about a Tesla Solar Roof is the service. With that in mind the court might just rule Tesla did everyone a favor.
Right. They are not equivalent at all. Isn't the whole point of the product to bring in people who wouldn't otherwise want panels due to the appearance? And on top of that they are bringing the price below a roof + panels with existing contracts in many cases. I had trees removed to get a solar roof, not panels. I might get panels some day, but that is not a decision I have made as of today. I might get a solar roof from a competitor, but that means waiting a while for prices to come down, in the meantime I spent $5k to remove old growth trees for no reason and there are no damages because it would have been needed for panels?
jimm01
Member
Yeah, it might end up that way. In arbitration, Tesla will shoot down anything/everything you show as damage, since their product has not being installed yet. Homeowners will need to fight tooth and nail for every penny of damage!I don't think Tesla understands it has entered the home improvement/construction industry where in many states there are statutes that won't let them get away with just saying "My bad." Although I don't think many will get much out of Tesla, but contacting CA, NV and your state of residence department of community affairs or license board may provide some redress (in NJ you could end up with treble damages plus all other costs and attorney fees). In any case, the worse thing about a Tesla Solar Roof is the service. With that in mind the court might just rule Tesla did everyone a favor.
For some of the posters on this forum: Yes, there are valid damages to be covered here! It is much more than meets the eye by reading the news and making general assumptions about installing solar. Solar panels are not Solar roof! Ask the homeowners and they will tell you their specific circumstance! Please don't dismiss them with truisms and accuse them of acting selfish. If you cared enough to read the whole thread, you would have also cared enough to ask about what the contract states and why people are feeling wronged. Folks are already in severe distress with the way Tesla is treating them. They are also dealing with the fallout and uncertainty in the near future.
jimm01
Member
based on Solar data from Troy, NY, (closest station
a 18.18 kw system should make you 22,530 kwh/year
a 16.2 kw system should make you 20,054 kwh/year
I have a 100% electric house, with heated swimming pool, LED lighting, PHEV vehicle and an 11,655 kw system and make 17,400 (actual measurement) per year and use a bit over 1/2 what I generate (42,000 generated, 18.9 exported to the grid, lifetime of system)
You may have uses for your excess production, and to be fair, I'm at 26.6 degrees north so a much less heating load but much higher AC load
you seriously might consider just plain PV panels
jimm01
Member
yes, PV watts v5, however I have also used SAM that is the free downloadable that will give a much more granular set of results.
go to pv watts and look in upper right corner of page, to find download link
you have to get a free registration key so they can track interest but almost immediately emailed by a bot.
you can add or not battery, up to 4 arrays with different orientations incident angle and degree facing, there is a database of a lot of panels, 5 different for Tesla by the way, 4 that seem to be the shingles, 15 inch by 45 inch if i remember correctly,
(mine are Hanwha Q.Peak Duo 315 watts)
i can input my specific utility rates and time frames (already there)
there are a lot of Solar data files for various places around the US and the rest of the world (less granular)
it’s a bit of a steep learning curve and the latest version uses PV Watts v7 (not publicly available yet apparently)
i got the latest SAM and again used PV Watts v 5
IF you assume the Tesla Roof tiles are Amorphous Silicon or thin film, change to 138 degrees S and 36 degree roof angle, those 2 outputs drop about 10% or so, just drop in the numbers
is this your question?
jimm01
Member
I have also just received an automated email and text from Tesla that if I don't sign the new contract, they will take that as an acknowledgement of my intent to cancel the contract. This is unbelievable - this is how serious scum operates. The blatant disregard of signed contracts, of time and money people spend to prep for solar roof, construction decisions made while relying on a contract indicated that Tesla and Musk think that they can and will get away with murder by simply interpreting it as minor inconvenience and their right. While investors keep making good money on Tesla stock, they will be giving Tesla a pass on this behavior.
I've been following this thread a lot, but haven't filed with arbitration, state GA, CA licensing board and such. Now, this has given me a long needed boost to do that today. I commend everyone who actually filed as you are doing the right thing.
I've been following this thread a lot, but haven't filed with arbitration, state GA, CA licensing board and such. Now, this has given me a long needed boost to do that today. I commend everyone who actually filed as you are doing the right thing.
By the way, I had an early install date of Jan 2021, but asked for it to be moved to mid-April to avoid installing in the rain. In April, as Tesla was preparing for the shenanigans, they've arbitrarily moved my date to start of May without notifying me. As it got closer to my date, they've moved it again and eventually just removed it completely and moved the contract state to "Review and Accept Your Design". Before signing the contract, their surveyors came twice to survey the roof and site conditions, which means their "out" clause in paragraph 2 of the contract doesn't apply, BUT everyone here knew that already. What a bunch of crooks!
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