SolarCity (SCTY)

[Calvin.K]

The gap is closing between tsla and scty, hoping for a strong close!!!

 

[TheTalkingMule]

The gap is closing between tsla and scty, hoping for a strong close!!!

So annoying that everything moves so much on inside information. Clearly something leaked that the merger will be no problem and insiders are taking the now more assured arbitrage opportunity.

Securities transactions should take place at 12 noon every Wednesday and that's it.

Really hope this thing gets delayed and delayed past the election so we can see if something interesting happens while these two are still separate entities.

 

[tander]

So annoying that everything moves so much on inside information. Clearly something leaked that the merger will be no problem and insiders are taking the now more assured arbitrage opportunity.

Securities transactions should take place at 12 noon every Wednesday and that's it.

Really hope this thing gets delayed and delayed past the election so we can see if something interesting happens while these two are still separate entities.

There's probably some truth to that but they updated the S-4 last night with proxies so that points to the merger going forward, plus there's no shares to borrow.

 

[doggusfluffy]

Really hope this thing gets delayed and delayed past the election so we can see if something interesting happens while these two are still separate entities.

I really don't know what to think anymore.

Canadian Solar was looking to automate more of its Guelph plant, says local MPP - GuelphToday.com

Sandals said she knew the company was looking at improving efficiencies in its manufacturing.

"They're also looking at some of the newer plants in the U.S. being 100 per cent automated. They're not 100 per cent automated so they're looking at some shifts on the line to automated from parts that are manual. I was aware of that," Sandals said Monday morning.

 

[doggusfluffy]

Sandoval shakes up PUC by appointing 2 new commissioners

Effective Oct. 3, Sandoval’s general counsel Joe Reynolds and former Department of Conservation and Natural Resources Director Leo Drozdoff will become PUC commissioners, replacing David Noble and Alaina Burtenshaw, who have worked at the PUC for decades.

Out of China’s Dusty Northwest Corner, a Solar Behemoth Arises

The project, being developed in phases by the clean energy unit of China’s biggest private investment group, will cover 4,607 hectares, or slightly more than 7,000 U.S. east coast city blocks. It will boast capacity of 2 gigawatts when complete, surpassing the scale of photovoltaics in place in Thailand at the end of 2015. The 15.6 billion-yuan ($2.34 billion) plant will need about 6 million panels and will be the biggest the world has ever seen.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Elon tweeting the SCTY/TSLA joint product makes me feel very good about the possibility of a cross-marketing effort with Model 3 res holders in the spring. That's going to be the turning point for TEnergy and SC as the market sees the immediate demand and extrapolates.

 

[doggusfluffy]

Obama judge added to climate rule case

The Clean Power Plan, which Obama made final last year, dictates that the power sector cut its greenhouse gas emissions 32 percent by 2030. Conservative states, energy companies and business groups say it violates the law.

DC Circuit Clean Power Plan hearing will have 10 judges after Pillard drops recusal

"This is unequivocally bad for [CPP opponents]," Potts said. “I’ve always known her to be one of the more pro-EPA judges based on her decisions and political history."

The D.C. Circuit Court will hear arguments on the Clean Power Plan next Tuesday, Sept. 27 in Washington.

 

[doggusfluffy]

State delays payments on SolarCity factory equipment

In July, the state estimated it would spend $52 million on manufacturing equipment within the month, but the reports for August and September do not show the purchase of any tools. The latest progress reports show that $7.35 million in payments is supposed to made to those companies, but it’s unclear if those will be made. The state did spend $22 million on tools in June.

New York is projected to spend $270 million on tools for the factory, and SolarCity will spend $130 million on tools, according to SUNY Poly.

 

[Ulmo]

State delays payments on SolarCity factory equipment

It looks like we get a view into the inefficiencies of paperwork between two entities that at the other end of the project are moving forward pretty quickly for the physical mechanics needed to succeed. While it will take work to sort out the various specific paperwork items and I'm sure there's someone's job that will have to deal with that, once the factory is up and running, product will be what matters, money will flow, and the paperwork can be sorted out and finalized by the Paperwork Person so that there's no weird issues hanging around (obviously they would need a New York factory paperwork specialist with proper California auditors of their work).

My assumption (and I could be wrong here) is that with the really rosy outlook for Solar City right now, all of the naysayers, monkey-wrenchers, con artists, muck rakers and cream skimmers will be gearing up to take a cat swipe at Solar City to see what kind of birdies they can eat. That's good news, an indication that things are healthy with the factory.

But, there is a low murmur of a cost to all this paperwork, and it's yet another example of how merging with Tesla will streamline new product integrations.

In case some people can't stomach this New York bottom-feeder activity going on in precious factories, just remember that New York has had an element of that for a long time. If the Governor wants the project to succeed, then there's a certain amount of force being applied that should make certain these anchors won't sink the project. As long as the Solar City execs are appealing to and connecting to the better nature of their workers and relationships, this should work out just fine. I'm hoping there's a highly skilled exec team in NY right now watching everything, getting the machines ready, but if there's not, ... then I misplaced my faith (106ºF in San Jose today some places, and 55ºF headed to hard freezing in a few months in Buffalo ... if local execs who need to be in NY are looking for excuses to enjoy themselves in California, they can freekin snap out of it and go do their job, regardless of how many cold-related leg and foot casts they catch while they learn how to walk in "weathered" states.)

Anybody with inside information when they predict to have product runs starting, and the first sample customers (probably GF1 and Fremont 1)? That's when fine tuning starts, and after that, they go hog wild with product announcements and once good reviews come in the factory takes root. The mobsters who minded their Ps and Qs make out like bandits and the rabble rousers who are trouble get cleaned up.

 

[doggusfluffy]

SolarCity Accused of Taking Shingling Technology Secrets

In April, 2014, Cogenra said it submitted its shingled-cell technology to the Department of Energy’s SunShot Initiative grant contest, intended to spur solar power manufacturing. The information wasn’t widely known to competitors, Cogenra claims, disclosed on a “need-to-know basis” and under a non-disclosure agreement.
Cogenra seeks a court order barring SolarCity from using its technology, plus compensation for its rival’s profits from the use of it.

 

[RobStark]

SolarCity sued by Cogenra Solar and Khosla Ventures

"SolarCity said that last week it discovered that a former SolarCity employee had unlawfully downloaded confidential information, copied that information to a personal hard drive, and then joined SunPower as a senior sales manager.

"Any unauthorized copying and use of this information is a very serious violation of SolarCity's intellectual property rights so we immediately notified SunPower," SolarCity said in a statement.

Cogenra's complaint fails to identify any actual trade secret that Cogenra owns, much less that SolarCity supposedly misappropriated, SolarCity said."

 

[GregA]

Solar City's installation costs are dramatically higher than the local installation costs in Germany and Australia, so they wouldn't be able to compete. Unless the merger with Tesla cuts costs in a huge way, they won't have any presence in markets with low installation costs.

I still get surprised when I hear about the cost of electricity here in Australia.

Consistent 24h rate is US16c/kWh + tax.
Or (on a peak/shoulder/off-peak plan) Off peak (10pm-7am) is US8c/kWh + tax [with Peak then at 35c/kWh].

Sorry to be ignorant... and I know some US states have special deals, but what's the standard pricing in the US?

Costs,
Tesla energy has a bright future in Australia (batteries) but not Solarcity.

I agree with that mostly. The solar panel prices have come down so much it's not funny. The Tesla battery is selling well partnered with local solar providers, and if Tesla enter the market to sell solar directly they'll likely kill some of those partnerships.

Now.. the integrated battery, inverter, charger is a different matter. An inverter (as I understand) is still expensive... and ugly etc etc. So there's great room for offering something interesting there.

It will compete with thousands of contractors using cheaper Chinese panels. Most of these panels have 20 years + warranty and last even longer. It is hard to see value with scty business model.

I don't think that you can compare the unknown new solar roof with cheap Chinese panels.

The comparison has to be "Tesla premium solar roof" vs "premium roof tiles PLUS cheap Chinese panels".
We also don't know the cost of the solar roof (though we can assume expensive).

But I think it's clear they are talking about a premium offer with a premium price. And they'll argue "if you're going to invest in premium roof tiles you should make them solar, and don't cover your beautiful tiles with ugly panels". I'm intrigued by what they'll offer, and hope they make tiles that integrate seamlessly with several existing premium tile types.

In Australia, I'd think Tesla will do better wholesaling their roof tiles through existing companies.
edit: in fact, solar tiles that are integrated with a roof would need to wholesale to roofing companies, not solar companies as it's not the same as adding panels. It requires a rethink both in Australia and in the US doesn't it?

 

[RobStark]

Consistent 24h rate is US16c/kWh + tax.
Or (on a peak/shoulder/off-peak plan) Off peak (10pm-7am) is US8c/kWh + tax [with Peak then at 35c/kWh].

Sorry to be ignorant... and I know some US states have special deals, but what's the standard pricing in the US?

Average rate across US is 13c/kWh
My local EV time of use rate is 9 c/kWh 9PM-Noon and 17 c/kWh Noon-9PM

Plus ~$20 various taxes.

 

[RobStark]

FWIW

Price Quotes_EnergyTrend PV
Today's Taiwanese Multi-Si Cell (Per Watt) are now 20cents per Watt
That means that PV panels will be about 30cents per watt in about 6-9 months time.

this is a great positive for the solar industry generally, but very negative for SCTY for 2 reasons
1stly) current SCTY asset base essentially valueless on a replacement basis.
2ndly) SCTY solar factory in USA is likely to be uncompetitive on a mass market basis, and restricted to niche products.

Solar City/Tesla Energy is not and will not be selling panels per watt but electricity per watt.

What matters is installed price per kWh.

With free factory, cheap hydro electricity, lower shipping cost, "Made in the USA", Tesla warranty from panel to EVSE I don't see how the Taiwanese will compete.

More than a niche of solar panel buyers care that their solar panels were made in an environmentally friendly fashion.

I think Tesla Energy will be able to meet that price or come really close. And have the value add of Tesla warranty and Made in the USA/Tesla good name of environmentally friendly manufacturing.

A 20 year warranty is only as good as the name on the panel. Do you trust a never before heard of Taiwanese manufacture or Tesla to be there in 10- 20 years to make good on a claim? If they are still in operation will they take the blame if something goes wrong or blame the inverter company, the controller company,or the installer?

 

[rallykeeper]

Average rate across US is 13c/kWh
My local EV time of use rate is 9 c/kWh 9PM-Noon and 17 c/kWh Noon-9PM

Plus ~$20 various taxes.

I live in Los Angeles too -- but clearly have a different, more expensive utility in Southern California Edison (our local for-profit utility).

TOU summer daytime rate for me is $0.312/kWh.

Super offpeak TOU is $0.125/kWh.

 

[Turing]

Solar City/Tesla Energy is not and will not be selling panels per watt but electricity per watt.

What matters is installed price per kWh.

With free factory, cheap hydro electricity, lower shipping cost, "Made in the USA", Tesla warranty from panel to EVSE I don't see how the Taiwanese will compete.

More than a niche of solar panel buyers care that their solar panels were made in an environmentally friendly fashion.

I think Tesla Energy will be able to meet that price or come really close. And have the value add of Tesla warranty and Made in the USA/Tesla good name of environmentally friendly manufacturing.

A 20 year warranty is only as good as the name on the panel. Do you trust a never before heard of Taiwanese manufacture or Tesla to be there in 10- 20 years to make good on a claim? If they are still in operation will they take the blame if something goes wrong or blame the inverter company, the controller company,or the installer?

I agree. I'm interested to hear where the edge is in a Taiwanese factory vs buffalo, considering buffalo one was free to solarcity - with option to scale it up, runs on cheap hydro, and will be highly automated. Are they paying more for input materials? Where are they beating them?

 

[Turing]

On a related note this buffalo factory can't compete view sort of reminds me of the general FUD attitude you often hear from financial media where it is basically assumed by many that the the US can't compete globally in high end manufacturing of anything. It's like how many said the gigafactory was a white elephant "can't compete with china/asia". Tesla EVs wont be able to compete with the onslaught of German autos once they enter the EV market. Can't build PVs in the US profitably. Can't build a start up rocket company in CA or a car company for that matter, ect. It's like - 'welp... i guess the US should just close up shop guys, we've not competitive in the world when it comes to building great products, we had a good run while it lasted though.' I guess from here on out it is all financial products, advertising and apps for the US economy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Rarity]

I thought it was really important that there'd be good entrepreneurs like them in solar because it just wasn't doing very well as an industry. I thought people weren't focusing on the right problem. Everybody thought that the panel was the problem but actually - it's a problem, but it's not the most important problem. The panel is somewhat commoditized at this point. "Making standard efficiency solar panels is about as hard as making dry wall. It's really easy. In fact, I'd say dry wall's probably harder."

*sugar* Elon Says - Transcript - Computer History Museum Presents: An Evening With Elon Musk

 

[doggusfluffy]

SolarCity accused of misappropriating solar company Congenra’s trade secrets

“The facts are not helpful to SunPower, so Cogenra sued without bothering to learn them,” a SolarCity spokesperson said.

Khosla Ventures, which owned 80 percent of Congenra from 2009 to 2015, is also suing SolarCity in the case. Both Khosla and SunPower are calling SolarCity’s statement false.

 

[anon]

Solar City has just received $347 million in financing for solar projects from two new Citi funds. It is also mentioned that Citi is looking to invest over $100 billion in clean energy over the next decade, so they may also be a good source of additional solar project financing in future.

SolarCity Creates Funds to Finance Over $347 Million in Solar Projects for Homeowners and Small Businesses (NASDAQ:SCTY)

Also some CFO news because of the merger:
SolarCity Appoints Radford Small Chief Financial Officer (NASDAQ:SCTY)