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jhm
Well-Known Member
They can charge whatever they want so long as my neighbor and I have the right to establish our own power line on our own property. Yes, I am assuming that the properties are adjacent or connected by common area such as HOA owned property.
jhm
Well-Known Member
That is exactly the privilege that must be challenged. It is clearly anticompetive and contrary to a free market, though it has been enshrined in law for generations. The laws should be changed.
Until monopoly privilige is surrendered, I think the utilities have no moral grounds to complain about having to accomodate solar power. On a daily basis, solar power is politically attacked as being contrary to free market principles, and yet there can be no free market when persons cannot legally sell surplus power to the highest bidder. Barry Goldwater, Jr., is right to point out just how incredibly hypocritical that is.
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Samsung, Tesla, Solar Firms Pursue Battery Microgrids TSLA SCTY ABB - Investors.com
Other companies are teaming up to go into the microgrid business. SunEdison is specifically looking to enter India.
That privilege was acquired and paid for by utilities. Part of utilities' business value is based on the franchise rights, which belong to them. It is difficult to retroactively take away these rights as that would be akin to taking away and socialising private property. Not many people would approve such principles. Such actions, if carried out, destabilize economic environment as businesses then operate in an uncertain environment with the possibility of being de floored at any time by different rules. Established businesses, like utilities and dealers, require some time to readjust to different rules. Eventually they will lose out to newcomers and new rules, but granting them some grace period for readjustment may work better in the long run.
Going forward, things can and will be different. Solar producers can either build their own grid or contribute for the upkeep of the existing grid if they wish to derive benefits from that grid.
What is stopping neighbors from building the connections themselves? Perhaps they do not wish to pay the price of building mini-grid. If 2 neighbours decide to build their own network, it then belongs to them and it would be wrong for the third neighbour to come along and claim free connection rights. It is a simplistic representation but may fit here.
Regarding paying for electricity, there is an interesting movie, "The Light Thief", about Afghanistan village and how villagers creatively steal power. The respected village electrician, 'light thief', gets called if someone is disconnected due to not paying and he illegally hooks them back up to power poles and tampers with their meter. That is a crime but is not considered a crime by villagers, it is a way of life. This is extremely difficult to police and enforce if the enforcer is from the same village. People in such environment develop different values, it seems cruel and unjust to them that they are denied access to power just because they can not afford it.
If any business like Solar City dares to venture into markets like that, it has to be prepared to make choices which could easily be labelled heartless and cruel.
Paying up front for the gear is a huge hurdle to overcome in any society.
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jhm
Well-Known Member
Actually, in such a context, I think microgrids are advantageous. It is one thing to steal power from a big business or government at some distance from the community. But with a microgrid, one is simply stealing from ones immediate neighbors. If neighbors want to share power when one neighbor falls on hard times, they are perfectly free to do so, and that is what neighbors do. With large utilities, this sort of neighborliness is not possible.
Regarding SolarCity, I would encourage people to take a look at their non-for-profit outreach GivePower Foundation. The video is quite moving. Solar Power Projects - Solar Energy for Schools without Electricity
jhm
Well-Known Member
Slave owners felt they had a legal right to compensation for loss of property when slaves have been emancipated. In some countries, governments actually provided such compensation.
What is stopping neighbors with adjacent properties from installing their own private connection is apparently the laws which gave this exclusive to local monopolies. This is exactly what I am arguing with. My neighbor and I have lost a really basic property right long before either of us were born.
In Georgia, this exclusive right to power distribution was so strong that a company like SolarCity could not enter in to a PPA with me wherein they would install a solar power system on my property and I would pay per kWh used. This is how strong the utility laws are.
However, the Georgia House of Representatives has recently voted on a bill called the Solar Power Free-Market Financing Act. It passed with no opposition. The Senate must also pass this legislation before it can be signed into law by our governor. I hope it does pass. Yes, it will erode the privilege that the utilities alegedly paid for some time ago.
These are laws, not inalienable rights. Legal monopolies only exist for the greater good of society. Once a democracy deems these franchise laws have outlived their usefulness, they can be changed.
The fact that companies like SolarCity can offer power at a discount to the utilities demonstrates that the utility monopolies have outlived their usefulness to society. Rate payers can actually lower rates when companies are allowed to compete for the ratepayer's business.
Every month I must pay Georgia Power about $7 as a cost recovery fee for a nuclear power plant they have not yet built. It will still be several years before this plant will start producing power. Many of us don't even want an new nuclear plant in our state, but we are all forced to pay for it whether it gets built or not. If Georgia Power had to compete for my business, that is if I had any choice, they would not get away with forcing my neighbors and me to prepay for a nuclear power plant we don't want. Upto this point, they have prevented solar installers from providing financing which has largely kept rooftop solar out of the state. Yet the utilities will tell you that solar cannot compete in a free market, which in a way is true because no free market exists so long as monopolies are protected by force of law.
In my opinion, Solar City will offer battery storage for free, to Solar City customers with a PPA, but will charge those who choose to buy panels from Solar City, a fee of some sort, that perhaps includes some sort of discount to what Solar City will charge other companies or those who choose to only buy the battery storage systems.
My guess is Tesla will make its batteries available to all Solar Panel producers and installers, however Solar City will charge these companies a bit more. This will act as free advertising for Tesla, since the battery storage units will have Tesla's logo on them. This will be very beneficial for Tesla's brand awareness and sales.
This would guarantee that Tesla's Gigafactory is at capacity by 2020, at which point, a second and perhaps third Gigafactory will be nearing completion. Batteries are very heavy and therefore cost a lot to ship. When Tesla says it plans to begin producing in China, I suspect Elon meant Tesla will be producing batteries for China, in China, to significantly reduce the cost of producing the final product, and to partner with Chinese companies, and the Chinese Grid. These partnerships will benefit China, Tesla, and Chinese consumers. By establishing strong partnerships in China, Tesla is very likely to get added to the list of companies and vehicles eligible for subsidies in China.
Anyone see a problem with this logic?
My guess is Tesla will make its batteries available to all Solar Panel producers and installers, however Solar City will charge these companies a bit more. This will act as free advertising for Tesla, since the battery storage units will have Tesla's logo on them. This will be very beneficial for Tesla's brand awareness and sales.
This would guarantee that Tesla's Gigafactory is at capacity by 2020, at which point, a second and perhaps third Gigafactory will be nearing completion. Batteries are very heavy and therefore cost a lot to ship. When Tesla says it plans to begin producing in China, I suspect Elon meant Tesla will be producing batteries for China, in China, to significantly reduce the cost of producing the final product, and to partner with Chinese companies, and the Chinese Grid. These partnerships will benefit China, Tesla, and Chinese consumers. By establishing strong partnerships in China, Tesla is very likely to get added to the list of companies and vehicles eligible for subsidies in China.
Anyone see a problem with this logic?
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I am not advocating for keeping the existing order, but for the grace period to give people time to adjust to changes. That grace period is given by a cumbersome electoral and legal system which move at slow speeds. Faster and more effective electoral and legal system is likely to provide faster changes in social and business landscape.
It is inherent in monopolies to not give their power away, why would they. The onus is on the new entrants and voters to act to enforce the change, monopolies are behaving as expected. That is how it is in the democratic society that people collectively built, there is no one to blame for the outcome if everyone plays by the rules, as monopolies seem to be.
I find it surprising though that neighbors are not allowed to lay an underground dc cable on their properties that connects their batteries if they are both off the grid.
Just had my Solar City PPA system installed today (2.6kw) Cannot wait to turn it on! Sold my scty stock to pile it into Tesla several months ago. Team leader said battery packs for all Scty systems are "on the way". I feel that in my investment time frame that my Tesla stock will do better than Scty but I wanted to "support" Solar City!
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Musk’s SpaceX Agrees to Buy $90 Million in SolarCity Solar Bonds - Bloomberg Business
(Bloomberg) -- Elon Musk’s Space Exploration Technology Corp. agreed to buy $90 million in SolarCity Corp. bonds tied to payments from rooftop solar power systems.
That’s almost all of the $93 million in one-year bonds that SolarCity is offering at a 2 percent interest rate, the San Mateo, California-based solar developer said today in a regulatory filing. Musk is co-founder and chief executive officer of Hawthorne, California-based SpaceX, as well as chairman and largest shareholder of SolarCity.
(Bloomberg) -- Elon Musk’s Space Exploration Technology Corp. agreed to buy $90 million in SolarCity Corp. bonds tied to payments from rooftop solar power systems.
That’s almost all of the $93 million in one-year bonds that SolarCity is offering at a 2 percent interest rate, the San Mateo, California-based solar developer said today in a regulatory filing. Musk is co-founder and chief executive officer of Hawthorne, California-based SpaceX, as well as chairman and largest shareholder of SolarCity.
jhm
Well-Known Member
Wow, I did not see that coming. I wonder what the motivation is. Is SpaceX just needing to sit on cash for a little while? Makes me wonder if SpaceX might also be in the market for some new Tesla bonds.
SolarCity Blog: SpaceX invests $90 million in SolarCity solar bonds
@elonmusk on Twitter: "SolarCity just hit a new daily energy record of 5GWh two weeks after reaching 4GWh"
@elonmusk on Twitter: "SolarCity just hit a new daily energy record of 5GWh two weeks after reaching 4GWh"
my mistake. I forget that spacex needs solar panels and batteries for their internet satellite mission. brilliant,
Tezla-RSX3
Member
This has all prompted my shift in stock strategy the last couple weeks. I recently did some homework on Elon and his ventures, and sold 75% of my stake in other solar companies. I invested it all in SolarCity and Tesla Motors, I think Tesla is a good buy now with the stock dip these past few months, along with the X and 3 on the horizon.
SpaceX are very profitable and has always been. It makes sense to help the "elon empire" grow since solarcity, tesla and SpaceX share many of the same investors.
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