SOLUTION - How to pay for the EV tax credit!

[Electroman]

low price of gasoline.

Artificial low price of gasoline

 

[Enadler]

This proposal makes the common assumption that the federal EV tax credit costs us money.

The EV credit was sized and placed specifically to offset petroleum subsidies. In 2008 the Bush administration asked the DOE what an EV credit should be. The DOE asked the GAO to calculate petroleum subsidies; they came up with an average of $12k per ICE over it's lifetime*. $7,500 was calculated to be the NPV of $12k.

It was never intended to tilt the costs towards EVs, it was intended to level the costs already tilted towards petroleum.

Plus not everybody can or does take the credit (I have only fully taken it once, and I am on my 5th PEV), so letting EV owners keep their money "costs" far less than $7,500 per EV sold. But even if it was $7,500 per car, my point is that it doesn't cost us any more than someone buying an ICE. Personally, I would rather just see all the subsidies go away...

* The GAO definition of subsidies includes tax credits, but does NOT include externalities, wars, Hormuz security, etc

As I followed this thread I find it fascinating that ChadS's post was ignored! This post gets to the heart of the real issue. The EV Credit was intended to put EV's on a level playing field with ICE vehicles. If the government were serious about plugging a hole in the budget due to the new tax plan they would attack the whole eco system and get rid of the subsidies to the oil and gas industry as well as the ones they have targeted for EV's. I am sure that would go a long way to plug their trillion dollar revenue shortfall!

 

[SageBrush]

No idea about the quality of the sources yet, though. I´ll definitely have a look.

Good idea.

UCS articles are typically very well referenced although they write with an agenda and their conclusions can be spinned. While you are reading, I recommend a little thought experiment: how will the use of clean energy affect the GHG burden of a manufactured product ? How will recycling, done with clean energy ? What is the GHG burden of a product that is mined with dirty energy, then processed, produced, recycled and remanufactured -- all with clean energy ?

To answer your question -- Yes, I have published in peer reviewed science publications. How about you ?

 

[SageBrush]

It seems pretty clear that the grid will continue to get cleaner as the cost of utility scale solar and other renewables continues to drop.

Also, EV owners tend to install or already have rooftop solar, which is even cleaner than charging from the grid.

I realize you are in one of the states with one of the dirtiest grids (CO) but across the U.S. the grid is getting cleaner and every sign is that will continue regardless of efforts in some quarters to push coal. The only real question in my mind is whether it will happen quickly enough.

On average, every EV that replaces an ICE vehicle significantly reduces lifetime CO2 emissions, and it is even better than that because it can take advantage of rooftop solar installed down the road or future improvements in the grid.

In contrast, each new ICE car on the road "bakes in" a high level of emissions over its lifetime.

No arguments from me, I was ranting a little about spin. It (and worse) is expected from politicians but I find it annoying in UCS articles.

P.s., my home PV array covers my home electricity, the 100 gallons of so of oil we still consume a year in our cars, and more. I'm drunk on the kool-aid!

 

[bkp_duke]

Artificial low price of gasoline

Doesn't matter if it is artificially low or not. Joe Consumer doesn't care about that, and never will.

@McRat's post is spot on. You have to make EV's stupid simple to consume and the reasons MUST be obvious.

 

[SageBrush]

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

I am saying that the 1% penetration of EVs into the US vehicle mix is not the cause of the road funding shortfall. That should not be very controversial.

 

[Electroman]

You have to make EV's stupid simple to consume and the reasons MUST be obvious.

Agreed. And these kind of federal and state incentives are the catalyst to get there.

 

[CarlitoDoc]

Seems as if the sense of entitlement is profound in SoCal. Seriously !!!

 

[ElecFan]

Most people do not consider an EV as a choice.

Just do what countries do in Europe: Forbid new ice cars to be sold after say 2040. Things will change very quickly. Where there is a will, there is a way.