SOLUTION - How to pay for the EV tax credit!

[insaneoctane]

Seems elegant to me, since the current proposed tax bill doesn't want to charge tax payers directly to fund the EV subsidy:

• Surcharge ALL vehicles based off their actual pollution output (ppm/mi)
• Prius would pay little
• Trucks and SUV would pay more (unless they were clean)
• Use proceeds to fund EV and ZEV subsidy
• Creates incentives directly from within the offending industry and manufacturers

Maybe we'd see more than compliance cars from just Tesla. Would make the biggest polluters pay for the EV revolution which is needed to fix their mess. I know traditional ICE manufacturers would hate this, but I love it.

 

[SageBrush]

Excellent plan, otherwise known as taxing externalities.

Regarding the Repub tax plan of doling out 1.3T in tax breaks to the rich and corporations over the next decade , I'm surprised to read really nothing about who is going to pay for it or what services are going to be cut. I'll make two guesses:

1. Military spending will rise
2. Cuts to healthcare will fund the corporate giveaway. I think that is why the Repubs were so keen to chop healthcare before embarking on tax reform, but the failure has left the corporate giveaway unfunded.

Tsk, tsk. And here I thought that Repubs hated more government debt and were all about a balanced budget.

 

[McHoffa]

Excellent plan, otherwise known as taxing externalities.

Regarding the Repub tax plan of doling out 1.3T in tax breaks to the rich and corporations over the next decade , I'm surprised to read really nothing about who is going to pay for it or what services are going to be cut. I'll make two guesses:

1. Military spending will rise
2. Cuts to healthcare will fund the corporate giveaway. I think that is why the Repubs were so keen to chop healthcare before embarking on tax reform, but the failure has left the corporate giveaway unfunded.

Tsk, tsk. And here I thought that Repubs hated more government debt and were all about a balanced budget.

Politicians only care about things when they’re running against the opposing party

 

[DOCAL]

That's a great idea, and is along the same lines as road tax in the UK, where it's now based upon CO2 output.

 

[run-the-joules]

Seems elegant to me, since the current proposed tax bill doesn't want to charge tax payers directly to fund the EV subsidy:

• Surcharge ALL vehicles based off their actual pollution output (ppm/mi)
• Prius would pay little
• Trucks and SUV would pay more (unless they were clean)
• Use proceeds to fund EV and ZEV subsidy
• Creates incentives directly from within the offending industry and manufacturers

Maybe we'd see more than compliance cars from just Tesla. Would make the biggest polluters pay for the EV revolution which is needed to fix their mess. I know traditional ICE manufacturers would hate this, but I love it.

Out of curiosity, are you recommending this as an attachment to new vehicle sales, or ongoing operations? I'm not seeing where you think this "surcharge" should be paid.

 

[insaneoctane]

Out of curiosity, are you recommending this as an attachment to new vehicle sales, or ongoing operations? I'm not seeing where you think this "surcharge" should be paid.

Collect at time of new vehicle sale. Seems like it would cost between $50 and $100 per vehicle on average. Obviously, per the recommended plan, the Prius would pay much less than the average and the belching Excursion would pay much more.

 

[run-the-joules]

Collect at time of new vehicle sale. Seems like it would cost between $50 and $100 per vehicle on average. Obviously, per the recommended plan, the Prius would pay much less than the average and the belching Excursion would pay much more.

I see. And this is charged to the buyer, or the manufacturer?

 

[insaneoctane]

@DrivingRockies, I'm fine with you disagreeing, but do you care to share what you think is wrong with the suggestion?

 

[insaneoctane]

I see. And this is charged to the buyer, or the manufacturer?

The ICE buyer will pay regardless of how I answer your question.

 

[eye.surgeon]

Seems elegant to me, since the current proposed tax bill doesn't want to charge tax payers directly to fund the EV subsidy:

• Surcharge ALL vehicles based off their actual pollution output (ppm/mi)
• Prius would pay little
• Trucks and SUV would pay more (unless they were clean)
• Use proceeds to fund EV and ZEV subsidy
• Creates incentives directly from within the offending industry and manufacturers

Maybe we'd see more than compliance cars from just Tesla. Would make the biggest polluters pay for the EV revolution which is needed to fix their mess. I know traditional ICE manufacturers would hate this, but I love it.

There is already a significant surcharge on actual pollution output in the form of fuel taxes. The EPA even publishes the cost of that tax in big bold letters on the Monroney window sticker on every car sold.

 

[run-the-joules]

The ICE buyer will pay regardless of how I answer your question.

Gotcha.

 

[DrivingRockies]

@DrivingRockies, I'm fine with you disagreeing, but do you care to share what you think is wrong with the suggestion?

Having other people help pay for your toys. Charging others because you disagree with theirs.

 

[ChadS]

This proposal makes the common assumption that the federal EV tax credit costs us money.

The EV credit was sized and placed specifically to offset petroleum subsidies. In 2008 the Bush administration asked the DOE what an EV credit should be. The DOE asked the GAO to calculate petroleum subsidies; they came up with an average of $12k per ICE over it's lifetime*. $7,500 was calculated to be the NPV of $12k.

It was never intended to tilt the costs towards EVs, it was intended to level the costs already tilted towards petroleum.

Plus not everybody can or does take the credit (I have only fully taken it once, and I am on my 5th PEV), so letting EV owners keep their money "costs" far less than $7,500 per EV sold. But even if it was $7,500 per car, my point is that it doesn't cost us any more than someone buying an ICE. Personally, I would rather just see all the subsidies go away...

* The GAO definition of subsidies includes tax credits, but does NOT include externalities, wars, Hormuz security, etc

 

[shokunin]

Elon already suggested this, a Carbon Tax to penalizing those who are pollute the environment rather than subsidising those who want to go green.

We all know how that ended with the Trump's choice to head the EPA, leave the Paris agreement and Elon's decision to bow out of Trump's advisory council.

 

[DrivingRockies]

a Carbon Tax to penalizing those who are pollute the environment rather than subsidising those who want to go green.

Forcing the competitors to be more expensive so you're more affordable? Might as well have the tax rebates.

 

[insaneoctane]

There is already a significant surcharge on actual pollution output in the form of fuel taxes. The EPA even publishes the cost of that tax in big bold letters on the Monroney window sticker on every car sold.

My suggestion uses the extra "tax" on furthering technology to aid the ultimate development of sustainable transportation. Where does the fuel tax money go?

 

[Barklikeadog]

Elon already suggested this, a Carbon Tax to penalizing those who are pollute the environment rather than subsidising those who want to go green.

We all know how that ended with the Trump's choice to head the EPA, leave the Paris agreement and Elon's decision to bow out of Trump's advisory council.

are you saying that Tesla autos do not pollute the environment?

 

[shokunin]

are you saying that Tesla autos do not pollute the environment?

No, where did I say Tesla is not polluting the environment? Rather a tax on those who do rather than subsidizing efforts to go green. Tesla could pay the carbon tax, possibly not as much as others.

 

[Electroman]

Forcing the competitors to be more expensive so you're more affordable? Might as well have the tax rebates.

Forcing the competitors? You mean the legacy dinosaur car companies are not allowed to build EVs?

 

[DrivingRockies]

Forcing the competitors? You mean the legacy dinosaur car companies are not allowed to build EVs?

No, it was never stated or insinuated that they couldn't. Nor is that even relevant to the argument...