Solved: Road Noise & Front Wind Noise

Through the last few months, I have been watching and reading up the various posts regarding the many ways many of you all have attempted, as well as the various kits available online, to reduce if not eliminate road noise and wind noise from the Model3. After reviewing all those posts and review of the kits, I figured that since none of you have been able to achieve that elusive goal, let alone even come close to reducing the noise, made me ask the question: What are we missing?

So as I kept driving my M3, I attempted to focus on finding those missing sources ie where is the noise emanating into the cabin from. Turns out they are the 4 corners of the cabin ie the A-Pillars and C-pillars. More specifically, the A-Pillars for wind noise and C-Pillars for road noise.

#1 - The solution for wind noise is the following - Z Weatherstrip down inside the leading edge of the front door, and foam block at the top triangle where the front fender, windshield and door meet.

Z-Weatherstrip

Foam at the junction

#2 - The solution for road noise is the following - 2" Fiber insulation behind the rear seat side panels that cover the rear wheel wells.

I hope this helps everyone who have been pursuing this goal. Thanks for all the contributions and many thanks to @XPsionic for his constant engagement and interest.

 

[enemji]

Winter tires I was using Nokian, the much noisier summer is a Micheli Pilot Sport 4 235/45. Both 18".

I was awere that winter tires are quieter, but wasn't expecting that much.

The winter tires shoulda be more noisier with all those hunkachunka blocks and sipes

 

[XPsionic]

Winter tires I was using Nokian, the much noisier summer is a Micheli Pilot Sport 4 235/45. Both 18".

I was awere that winter tires are quieter, but wasn't expecting that much.

Do you know if the PS4 tires you have are the OEM Tesla specific ones with the foam inside? There should be a T0 or something in the name somewhere on the sidewall

 

[ICE5891]

The winter tires shoulda be more noisier with all those hunkachunka blocks and sipes

The one with spikes yes they are noise as hell, but the friction tires with softer rubber is less noisy then summer.

Do you know if the PS4 tires you have are the OEM Tesla specific ones with the foam inside? There should be a T0 or something in the name somewhere on the sidewall

It should be, this is the one that came from the factory.

 

[XPsionic]

The one with spikes yes they are noise as hell, but the friction tires with softer rubber is less noisy then summer.


It should be, this is the one that came from the factory.

Thanks for the pictures! Yep... T1 tires, have the foam. Good to know that even with the foam they're still on the loud side. I was considering getting those for replacement but I'll cross that off the list.

 

[ICE5891]

Did a measurement today morning.

Nokian friction winter tires, 65±2db

Michelin Pilot Sport 4 235/45 ZR 18 T1, 69±2db

The difference is really significant. More then what I have accomplished with all the sound proofing. Note also that the profile shifted a bit to the right so the main frequencies are higher and more annoying to the ears.

It could be tough that I am on the worst scenario right now.
-Temperature are in transition from winter tire range to summer tire range so is not yet on the ideal summer temperature
-Michelin are being used for the first time (do tire breakin like shoes?)
-Maybe the asphalt is harsh right after winter season and tend to smooth out when we approach summer. Could not find a reference for that but someone at my workplace mentioned it.

At least the model 3 handling is much improved, it feels much firmer and gives more confidence. With winter tires is very woobling at 100-120km/h curves.

 

[enemji]

Did a measurement today morning.

Nokian friction winter tires, 65±2db

View attachment 930460

Michelin Pilot Sport 4 235/45 ZR 18 T1, 69±2db
View attachment 930461

The difference is really significant. More then what I have accomplished with all the sound proofing. Note also that the profile shifted a bit to the right so the main frequencies are higher and more annoying to the ears.

It could be tough that I am on the worst scenario right now.
-Temperature are in transition from winter tire range to summer tire range so is not yet on the ideal summer temperature
-Michelin are being used for the first time (do tire breakin like shoes?)
-Maybe the asphalt is harsh right after winter season and tend to smooth out when we approach summer. Could not find a reference for that but someone at my workplace mentioned it.

At least the model 3 handling is much improved, it feels much firmer and gives more confidence. With winter tires is very woobling at 100-120km/h curves.

I am not surprised. The Michelin tires are super noisy except for their Michelin Primacy Tour A/S. Even the bloody Hankook Kinergy Tires that are rated at 6 on noise and comfort on TireRack are better than the any of the Michelin tires that are rated at 9.

I can say this with 200% confidence because I had one M3 with Michelin Primacy MXM4 and another with the Kinergy GT. It was annoying as hell and I finally switched the other to Kinergy GT too, after 13,000 miles of painful noise.

 

[DavidPetr.]

Last month, I replaced my 21-inch Michelin tires, which had around 20,000 miles on them, with a square setup of 275/40/20 Falken AS460 tires. I was surprised by the huge reduction in road noise. This improvement was so significant that I no longer feel the need to soundproof my car. While I don't have any measurements to back this up, I can finally hear my kids speaking from the back seats without any difficulty. The Michelin tires were overrated as they were quite noisy and had poor traction in light snow.

 

[exsibian]

Last month, I replaced my 21-inch Michelin tires, which had around 20,000 miles on them, with a square setup of 275/40/20 Falken AS460 tires. I was surprised by the huge reduction in road noise. This improvement was so significant that I no longer feel the need to soundproof my car. While I don't have any measurements to back this up, I can finally hear my kids speaking from the back seats without any difficulty. The Michelin tires were overrated as they were quite noisy and had poor traction in light snow.

Recently installed Pirelli P Zero All Season Plus Elect tires - huge difference (to my ears) in noise reduction compared to MXM4. I made most of the soundproofing changes in this thread as well and i think it helped because whatever noise road i still hear comes from the front. I'm very happy with the car now, don't think i'll do anything else. Thanks OP and everyone else for all the tips...

 

[XPsionic]

Recently installed Pirelli P Zero All Season Plus Elect tires - huge difference (to my ears) in noise reduction compared to MXM4. I made most of the soundproofing changes in this thread as well and i think it helped because whatever noise road i still hear comes from the front. I'm very happy with the car now, don't think i'll do anything else. Thanks OP and everyone else for all the tips...

How's the new tires in terms of grip compared to the mxm4?

 

[exsibian]

How's the new tires in terms of grip compared to the mxm4?

I don't drive very aggressively so to me the grip is at least as good as mxm4. just drove in the pouring rain this morning and car felt planted to the road, no slip/hydroplaning going through a puddle. granted, brand new tires with 10/32 thread (vs 8/32 on mxm4 when new) should help...

 

[jrcplus]

Quick update. I changed to Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 6 (with SoundComfort Technology®). Previous summer tires were stock Michelin Pilot Sport 4. Didn't notice much of a difference, to my disappointment. The shop said they did tire rebalancing as part of the tire change, but not wheel alignment (though I haven't noticed the car drift).

I can't get useful sound measurements out of my phone (under consistent conditions, without spending a bunch of more time). The graphs in the top part of Spectroid screenshots are ruined when pressing the phone's buttons to take the screenshot, I realized!

The roads near me are smooth but remarkably coarse—except for this one patch of road I found that's newly paved and soothingly quiet. Usually at lower speeds, it's as if I can feel the pebbles through the seats and steering wheel. I've now learned that the roads in Sweden are some of the noisiest around, as historically the type of asphalt was primarily chosen to withstand studded winter tires. Places like Arizona and California (as well as Portugal), meanwhile, use rubberized asphalt, and Germany and Netherlands uses porous asphalt.

I drove two Tesla Model 3's in California and didn't think much about road noise, then got one in Sweden and it's been driving me batty. But now I think it's primarily the roads (in combination with Teslas and/or EVs in general just having more road noise) and not me getting a lemon, so I don't feel as bad.

I don't sit in the back of the car much but I'll try to do that more often in the near future. So I think with the ceramic fiber over the rear wheel wells, the remaining road noise problem is in the front. I noticed @Gauss Guzzler's post Solved: Road Noise & Front Wind Noise and also decided to stuff some extra soundproofing material that I had in there, because cheap and easy. It maybe slightly softened the harshness, or maybe it's just in my head.

Anyone know of any suspension adjustments or replacement parts that could help? I know some companies sell wheel well covers but they don't seem to do that much, especially if the vibrations come up through the suspension.

I think I am going to start driving with noise-cancelling headphones… (seriously)

 

[ICE5891]

The roads near me are smooth but remarkably coarse—except for this one patch of road I found that's newly paved and soothingly quiet. Usually at lower speeds, it's as if I can feel the pebbles through the seats and steering wheel. I've now learned that the roads in Sweden are some of the noisiest around, as historically the type of asphalt was primarily chosen to withstand studded winter tires. Places like Arizona and California (as well as Portugal), meanwhile, use rubberized asphalt, and Germany and Netherlands uses porous asphalt.

I drove two Tesla Model 3's in California and didn't think much about road noise, then got one in Sweden and it's been driving me batty. But now I think it's primarily the roads (in combination with Teslas and/or EVs in general just having more road noise) and not me getting a lemon, so I don't feel as bad.

I think the coarse asphalt is same here in finland. A friend told that in norway it is much better, I will be there in july going all the way from north to south so I can check.

 

[XPsionic]

I think the coarse asphalt is same here in finland. A friend told that in norway it is much better, I will be there in july going all the way from north to south so I can check.

hah, my friends in Norway always complain about how rough their roads are. When I drove there a few years ago, I thought overall it's not bad, wouldn't call it very smooth and quiet.

Wish there's more EV tire reviews/comparison tests out there, seem like some of the EV tires with foam aren't that quiet, while some like the Hankook Ion series are getting really good reviews in terms of road noise. But it's difficult to tell how true that is because owner reviews are notoriously unreliable.

 

[ICE5891]

Front wheel well done

The liner

I wanted to isolate the liner as much as possible knowing that it would be a pain to mount it back. I first put it all around and then start removing here and there to make putting all the clips back. That was quite time consuming.

Wheel arch

As a last touch I added this acoustic foam to the opening that lead to the A pillar and front door.

First a brick just where the A pillar start. This is supposed to block the air stream that can make the A pillar airbag rattling and maybe some wind noise.

Then a second layer from top to bottom

This was a lot more work than any of the other steps. I spend around 15h in total for the 2 sides. Remove wheel, remove liner, clean, degrease, dry, apply the material, mess with the clips, try again...

I am overall satisfied with the car sound now. Dont know for sure if it is a mental positive affirmation after all the work of if there was a real improvement. But it feels less harsh. I have done this is in 5h steps with several days in between so I lost the reference on how it was before all the job done. But next week I will do the dB measurement so we have it properly compared.

If you think on doing this be aware that it takes lots of hours and as everything else we have done, it wont be a game changer, it will be an incremental improvement.

 

[iorr61]

I have been battling driver's window noise on my 2022 M3 for months now. The window sounded cracked at any speed over 40 MPH. In fact, cracking the window at that speed made no difference in the sound. A windy day would push air through the seal.

I went to Tesla service 4 times for "adjustments" to the window seal which would sound ok for a while and then revert back. I noticed leaving the windows down (vent) would make the sealing worse afterwards. I'm guessing the seal had some resiliency (like a spring) and would just go back to not sealing. Placing some weather stripping behind the lip of the seal on the b-pillar side definitely helped.

I went to a different Tesla service center than the previous visits to fix something service center 1 broke. I also had service center 2 replace (not adjust) the driver's seal. So far, my noise is greatly reduced with the new seal. It only took 5 trips to Tesla service to fix it.

Keep up the good work on the end-user side. Tesla is not interested in fixing these design flaws.

My fix, and it works very well! It’s a piece of bungie/para-cord stuffed in the channel that I had laying around. I have a black one to make it blend in.

 

[ICE5891]

Summary of sound measurements

.No Sound Treatment
.Nokian friction winter tires,
-67db±2

.Sound Treatment on Trunk well, trunk bed, rear wheel arch and back seat side panels
.Nokian friction winter tires,
-65±2db

View attachment 930460

.Sound Treatment on Trunk well, trunk bed, rear wheel arch and back seat side panels
.Michelin Pilot Sport 4 235/45 ZR 18 T1,
-69±2db

View attachment 930461

Sound Treatment on Trunk well, trunk bed, rear wheel arch and back seat side panels.
Sound treatment on front wheel arch and acoustic foam on front fender.
.Michelin Pilot Sport 4 235/45 ZR 18 T1
-66±2db

 

[enemji]

Summary of sound measurements

.No Sound Treatment
.Nokian friction winter tires,
-67db±2

.Sound Treatment on Trunk well, trunk bed, rear wheel arch and back seat side panels
.Nokian friction winter tires,
-65±2db

View attachment 930460

.Sound Treatment on Trunk well, trunk bed, rear wheel arch and back seat side panels
.Michelin Pilot Sport 4 235/45 ZR 18 T1,
-69±2db

View attachment 930461

Sound Treatment on Trunk well, trunk bed, rear wheel arch and back seat side panels.
Sound treatment on front wheel arch and acoustic foam on front fender.
.Michelin Pilot Sport 4 235/45 ZR 18 T1
-66±2db

View attachment 938205

That is good data. As always, it is always better to start with quieter tires. They make the biggest impact.

 

[Heckraiser]

Just drove my 2019 M3 SR+ (with comfort-tuned aftermarket shocks and a good amount of DIY sound deadening), a 2022 M3 LR and a 2017 MS 90D back-to-back-to-back on the same choppy, degraded pavement test route. My conclusion is if you care about NVH, start with a model S

I was really trying to determine if the newer model 3's incremental suspension and sound deadening improvements were worth the $$$ jump. To me, the answer is no. The newer model 3 was noticeably better than mine over the crap roads both in ride quality and noise, but only just barely. It still felt like an unrefined rattlebox compared to my other vehicles (old Lexuseszes). The model S was a significant improvement--not quite up to par with our Lexi, but closer.

Big props to the Audi dealer who indulged me in this little experiment. I almost drove an E-tron right after, but I'd almost rather not know or get tempted... the range is just too poor for my needs and I would really rather not roll around in a soccer mom car.

 

[enemji]

Just drove my 2019 M3 SR+ (with comfort-tuned aftermarket shocks and a good amount of DIY sound deadening), a 2022 M3 LR and a 2017 MS 90D back-to-back-to-back on the same choppy, degraded pavement test route. My conclusion is if you care about NVH, start with a model S

I was really trying to determine if the newer model 3's incremental suspension and sound deadening improvements were worth the $$$ jump. To me, the answer is no. The newer model 3 was noticeably better than mine over the crap roads both in ride quality and noise, but only just barely. It still felt like an unrefined rattlebox compared to my other vehicles (old Lexuseszes). The model S was a significant improvement--not quite up to par with our Lexi, but closer.

Big props to the Audi dealer who indulged me in this little experiment. I almost drove an E-tron right after, but I'd almost rather not know or get tempted... the range is just too poor for my needs and I would really rather not roll around in a soccer mom car.

Lexus has no car that is so tightly sprung as standard. If you go fsport, it is still not as much.

So if you really want low NVH, go for a routine passenger car such as the etron

 

[Neskiredk]

I had the roof glass gasket. Doesn't work. I thought that it helped a bit when I first installed it. But it came out a couple months later while on the highway and flew away and I didn't notice it, so I think any benefit was all in my head.

The roof gasket worked for my car after a windshield replacement was misaligned.
It however did nothing now that I’ve had a new windshield put in.