Stalk or no stalk argument [not] settled

First, we should analyze the matter without considering that the brand Tesla is making these changes and understand from a automotive/ engineering/ ergonomic point of view that whether indicator in steering has benefits compare to stalk. If it does, I'll accept that.

Obviously there is always a trade off in anything.

Having stalk as an independent module that it's functionality is not influenced by the functionality of another module (steering). Ergonomically, we apply force by our arms to move the steering, and we operate the stalk by our fingers (not thumb). This configuration only make sense if the steering is round. So stalks works with a round steering.

The no stalk configuration is ergonomically acceptable if there is a yoke. And only if the yoke doesn't need to turn not more halfway. In this case your thumbs are always where they suppose to be to function.

Another issue is the gear Selector.

First, I don't know what how you would select gear if you break your screen. Second, if you have a yoke configuration, the intent is to keep you hands on the yoke all the time. But that conflicts with selecting gear because to select gear you have to take you hand off the yoke and touch the screen.

Another issue is that selecting gear on screen mandates eye engagement (but not the stalk) which again defeats the purpose of buttons in yoke.

So the no stalk configuration only makes sense if the gear Selector is also on the yoke and the yoke only turns halfway.

 

[tivoboy]

NHTSA won't make them because stalks are not required to meet standards. In fact, NHTSA would have shut them down already with the Middle S/X if if it was an issue. As others pointed out, Ferrari had long been using turn signal buttons and NHTSA did not give them trouble either.

Well, at this point there is a clear SECONDARY PRND control access on the S and X models for DRIVE control. It’s uncertain of whether or not on the new Highland model 3, it’s up by the legacy HAZARD button or simply missing. Seems it is not below the charging station like on the S and X. That’s just drive control, which I have the feeling NHTSA requires in some way - assuming the main screen is broken, offline, etc. TURN signals, IMHO are similar, but we’ll see. On the S and X there are NOT alternative turn signals, so maybe they have gotten away with it, or tested the boundaries of NHTSA or DOT requirements and found the actual border.

 

[EfficientWatts]

The problem is - they backpedalled on the yoke, but the stalks were already removed from the S/X and they haven't backpedalled... they're pushing it to the 3/Y. I take this to mean that they consider them acceptable or even better than stalks.

The volume of S/X compared to 3/Y is a pretty big difference. I think there's still a big enough market for people to put up with no stalks for those cars but 3/Y is going to be a different ballgame. We'll see what happens over the next few quarters as this starts rolling out more and more. I think we'll find out either way relatively soon, especially in a market like China.

I do hope that they will walk it back, but who knows...

 

[stopcrazypp]

Well, at this point there is a clear SECONDARY PRND control access on the S and X models for DRIVE control. It’s uncertain of whether or not on the new Highland model 3, it’s up by the legacy HAZARD button or simply missing. Seems it is not below the charging station like on the S and X.

There's already a picture posted of the PRNL buttons on the Hazard button assembly for Highland. NHTSA requires physical selectors, but there are no requirements that it must be on a stalk or at a specific location. In fact, most cars don't even use a column stalk, they have a gear selector on the center console (all the older cars I drove were like this).

That’s just drive control, which I have the feeling NHTSA requires in some way - assuming the main screen is broken, offline, etc. TURN signals, IMHO are similar, but we’ll see. On the S and X there are NOT alternative turn signals, so maybe they have gotten away with it, or tested the boundaries of NHTSA or DOT requirements and found the actual border.

Why would they need alternative turn signals? The turn signals are already physical buttons on the steering wheel.

Tesla only needed the backup buttons for the gear selection given otherwise it would be all on the touchscreen and that doesn't meet requirements.

 

[voldar]

Why would they need alternative turn signals? The turn signals are already physical buttons on the steering wheel.

Luckily there aren't many round-about in North America. Or else....

 

[stopcrazypp]

Luckily there aren't many round-about in North America. Or else....

Some one showed how someone used to turn signals buttons used it and it wasn't that big a deal. They just press the button by moving the hand there.

 

[timberlights]

Personally I am used to using the turn signal buttons in roundabouts at this point. I am a year into this (with a yoke specifically)

 

[strider]

"Almost" correctly

You must live in the future.

I was being kind. But I have to say that the automatic wipers in my MXP work pretty well. Also, when my wife first got her 2018 MS the automatic wipers were horrible. They are much better now.

 

[3sr+buyer]

There's already a picture posted of the PRNL buttons on the Hazard button assembly for Highland. NHTSA requires physical selectors, but there are no requirements that it must be on a stalk or at a specific location. In fact, most cars don't even use a column stalk, they have a gear selector on the center console (all the older cars I drove were like this).

Column shifting was once common.

However, shifter designs, particularly with automatic transmissions, are all over the place.

 

[brkaus]

Column shifting was once common.

Yup. Used to drive a truck that had "three on the tree". Good old days. Personally, I'm not worried about shift location (although I'm scared of automatic selection), but still not a fan of the turn signals. Trying to schedule a drive to see what I really think.

 

[arkhos]

Personally I think it would be fun to try the stalkless set-up for the turn-signals. I just don't see it as a big deal, honestly.

But I can understand where some folks are wary about it. Like most things, it's something to get used to - sort of like the other changes that came along with switching from ICE to EV in the first place.

 

[ICE5891]

yeah, I didn't get the OP's point about gear selector as one does not shift up or down while driving. I could see an issue shifting while parallel parking and therefore the yoke is turned significantly, But then one is stopped before changing from Forward to Reverse (or vice versa).

I don't stop before changing from forward to reverse. Tesla does this nicely on low speeds when parking.

Also when we are stuck on snow we want to change forward to reverse quickly multiple times to move away. Don't know if this will be possible with the screen shifting or with those buttons, maybe possible with the buttons.

 

[father_of_6]

Like most things, it's something to get used to - sort of like the other changes that came along with switching from ICE to EV in the first place.

But whereas switching to an EV is packed with positives, moving the turn signals and gear selection to steering wheel buttons and/or the touchscreen is at best very inconvenient, but at worst it's dangerous.

 

[BigNick]

Column shifting was once common.

However, shifter designs, particularly with automatic transmissions, are all over the place.

I remember teaching my brother how to drive on a three-on-the-tree car (it was his first car.) He was always breaking the shift linkage bolts/pins from being too ham-fisted with it. I never owned one myself, my manual shifters were always 4-, 5-, or 6-speeds on the floor. My automatics were split between floor and column shift.

The M-B GLC shift lever looks suspiciously like a 2015-vintage Model S shift lever. For older cars, Tesla utilized M-B parts. Perhaps the expense of said parts is why they decided to softwarize everything.

 

[GooseSlapper]

I'd look at the turn signal buttons, be slightly annoyed, adapt and move on.

 

[father_of_6]

I'd look at the turn signal buttons, be slightly annoyed, adapt and move on.

Move on from this life due to an incorrect gear selection during a 3-point turn in heavy traffic?

 

[uscbucsfan]

Move on from this life due to an incorrect gear selection during a 3-point turn in heavy traffic?

People are making too big of a deal out of this. It's easier to use the screen to do a 3 point turn than buttons in a Hyundai...maybe slightly less easy than the stalks, but after a week or so you really forget about it.

And yes, you can shift while rolling, just as you can with a stalk...I do it every day.

The auto-shift is a huge improvement and it's correct 99% of the time.

 

[Unclepaul]

I took my X into service to ask about replacing my yoke as it had been scratched by me. They advised me to wait (put me on a list) to replace it, as a newer yoke was in the works and that it would be of better construction.
Thanked them for this advice and I will wait for the improved yoke. Hoping that perhaps it will have a center horn button (my only complaint)

Overall, living with the Yoke has been a pleasant experience. It really opens up the sightlines, and I do not miss the stalks. The new AI automatic gear selection has been working great. It choses, in it's opinion, which gear I will be needing when I hook up my seat belt and press on the brake. It has been over 90% accurate and brings a smile to my face every time it engages the proper gear for my initial needs.

As personal transportation continues to evolve, obviously things will need to change. People are always going to be resistant to change and shout into the wind, but the change is certainly coming.

 

[father_of_6]

It has been over 90% accurate

Honestly, this sounds terrifying. Once this hits the masses, it's only a matter of time before people plow into their garages, houses, parking blocks, or even people.

 

[EatsShoots]

Column shifting was once common.

However, shifter designs, particularly with automatic transmissions, are all over the place.

I used to HATE the column shifters, but that's because they were mechanical and clunky. The stalk shifter on the tesla works well.

One of the best ones I've actually used is on the ram 1500 I got last year. It's just a wheel against the dash and it works really well. It's exceedingly intuitive and also out of the way.

IMO Tesla is doing this stalkless thing purely to save money and be different, but this could pretty easily be settled by them keeping the stalk AND putting the new controls in, at least for a time, and analyze usage behavior of people who have both. If it turns out they do just fine with steering controls Tesla just yanks the stalk out of the manufacturing steps.

 

[uscbucsfan]

View attachment 971700

Logically, how is this easier than pointing your finger out and then swiping down?

This and the buttons are the worst versions of shifters IMO. It was too easy to go to N on these. The screen swipe is less movement and requires less hand motion....at the same exact distance as this.

IMO if you are saying you are fine with this but against the screen swipe, you are just being ridiculous.