Never would I do such a thing. I'm just happy to find a thread that points out how much better German cars are than anything made by a South African.I think it was an attempt to be sarcastic that didn't quite work out.
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You are foolishly naive if you think most BMW or Audi owners will buy the Model 3.
FWIW: If Tesla removed all of the autopilot hardware from the Model 3 and made it an option, Tesla could provide most of the Audi A4's standard features too. Seems absolutely ridiculous to me to put that much work and cost for autopilot into each and every Model 3 when the owner's may prefer to spend that money on options or getting more standard features.
I think you overestimate how much Tesla pays for the hardware.
Remember, they're providing standard safety features with that hardware, too - some of which are becoming mandatory in some places over the next few years.
Just keeping AP and non-AP version of the various hardware bits would cost Tesla money, too - and they might need different versions of code for the various modules.
Elon believes FSDC will be a total gamechanger in the automotive world - and I think there's a good chance he'll be right. Putting the hardware on every car puts Tesla in a better position to capitalize on it when it happens - and gives them more information from the fleet, too.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
Consider the value of the data! By including AP hardware in all vehicle it provides Tesla with an upgrade path for all vehicles AND allows them to gather driving data from all vehicles. To put things in perspective, at the end of last year Tesla already had 1.3 billion miles of data logged including 222M from model S/X with AP hardware. Compare this to Google who only has 3M miles of logged AD. There are articles written that stipulate the future value of Tesla might require this data (see link below). I think this is a driving reason why we see all Tesla vehicles with AP HW as standard.
How Tesla can become worth more than Apple, according to Morgan Stanley
JonathanDandrea
Member
Cousin rented a base 3 series when he came to visit. Loud clunky transmission and engine, the ridiculous start stop engine feature that would lurch the car forward when taking off and the ride was brutally hard. I might be spoiled from driving around our Model S but I would rather drive around in my dodge minivan than a base 3 series
Please explain how you know this. I certainly wasn't asked what car I currently own when I placed my reservation.
timk225
Active Member
So if this data is so valuable, shouldn't Tesla be paying me for the data of the roads I drive on? I'm paying full price for the car AND giving up valuable data on top of that? They can pay me to NOT put tape over all the cameras! I'm not getting autopilot.
Whooosh! - *the sound of the point flying over your head*
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Not sure if sarcasm, but the data is used to improve autopilot/FSD, which even if you don't get it initially, adds value to the car (for example resale) since the equipment is there.
I'm still debating getting autopilot or not, but I'm glad the car has the hardware so I can make the decision later if I want, or if self driving really becomes a big thing in the future.
There's one thing that you're missing here. If the S is any indication of the 3's quality of materials, then there's no comparison to a BMW or Audi (or Mercedes). The German quality is clearly superior.
Reciprocity
Active Member
I dont think the original post was saying that they would pull AP hardware, just making a point that they could and still basically match the A4. Of course they will not for all the reasons you noted. But also, I would go one further and guarantee that every FSD/EAP will be enabled in every Model 3 with very few exceptions. It may take 10+ years for some cars, but every single car will have those features enabled at some point in their life. The reason is FSD and the Tesla Network. Even if the first buyer never uses it, there will be fleet operators and cab companies that buy the used Model 3s and enable the features to make money. I guess if someone totals their car or keeps it forever, then maybe those few will not ever get those features enabled, but for the rest, I am pretty sure that every single one will eventually be activated. To put that in context, if they sell 2M model 3s over the next couple of years and the EAP+FSD cost $5,000 to enable, then that is $10B in additional revenues, which is about 30% more revenue then TESLA had all last year. It will be interesting to see how long it takes the realize those revenues, but most will be in the first few years. I was originally skeptical with the value of putting all that hardware into a car that may not get used, but the fact is that it will be used even if no one every enables it because it will be used as a safety feature as a guardian angel like capability where the FSD features will be able to save you in situations where a human cannot react fast enough. You wont have to purchase FSD to get the FSD safety features, they will be included. Make a mistake and try to turn down a one way going the wrong way? About to run a red light? Fall asleep at the wheel or have a heart attack? I could see thousands of use cases for FSD hardware being leveraged with no cost to the owner.
That "data" is two things: some type of distillation from sensor raw output or processed output of the machine learning. The former is more useful for mapping while the latter is more useful for improving the AI. However, no matter how much data is collected out of a neural net, it will still be subject to the inherent limitations of the original model and hardware. So a trillion miles of data collected by one system is not remotely equivalent to a trillion miles collected by another. As these systems are wholly proprietary and have completely different capabilities, I wonder how Jonas could make such an apples-to-apples comparison.
You have to add ~$12K to the Audi price to allow for fuel savings & cheaper servicing over 5 years
So the question is, what do you get for a $47K M3 to compare with a $35K Audi A4?
(M3 will also have better depreciation than A4, in the same way MacBooks trump Windows laptops for whole of life value, but it's too hard to make this calculation now - maybe compare MS to A6 and use that?)
I tried to compare the A4, IS, BMW 3-series with the Model 3. The main problem when making a comparison is that the Model 3 I imagine would come with Navigation even in the base model. All of the other marques you need to get an expensive navigation package. It all comes down to what you think people would value more.
