Starting and also ending the iPace "comparison".

[McRat]

What does an iPace do better than a Model S?

Ignoring driving abilities in general, here's what I can remember.
Note: This is based on preliminary data. Includes optional equipment.

• Less money than Model S 75D.
• HUD.
• Bird's Eye 360° view.
• 99 mph AEB, 112 mph for autosteering and ACC.
• More headroom, both front and rear (rear by 3"). Rear legroom identical.
• Cab Forward design allows ample passenger room in a 12" shorter length, yet longer wheelbase, and ~same sized boot (25cuft/26cuft)
• Roof grab handles for all seating for easier ingress and egress. Get in the back seat of an MS to understand.
• 295 miles WLTP (not NEDC, EPA unknown)
• One pedal driving or creep, you choose.
• Over twice the regen, programmable.
• Heat pump, electrically heated windshield.
• Activity band - lock everything in the car, including your keys when you go play, wear a waterproof wrist band.
• Driver configurable car dynamics saved to your cellphone, recalled by BT.
• Departure time based programmable charging.
• Front charge port.
• Air suspension will lift car 50% higher than Model S for challenging situations. Automatically lowers as speed increases.
• Anti-rollover system.
• 50/50 weight bias.
• Blind spot monitor LED on side mirrors, dash, HUD. If you try to change lanes into a oncoming car/MC it pushes back at you.
• Spare tire
• Accelerator sound to judge speed by ear, can be turned on or off.
• Quieter interior.
• 20 way leather cooled and heated seats.
• 4 zone AC.
• 825 watt surround sound. (Carplay coming soon, OTAU)
• Premium leather and wood interior.
• Storage compartments in interior.
• All lighting is LED including ambient lighting.
• Land Rover derived rough terrain technology.
• "Unstick" snow mode. Creep mode for ice. AdSR for mixed terrain.
• Traction control systems can be disengaged if desired.
• 12 paint colors, many kinds of interiors.
• Battery, motors, and inverters have track level cooling, some by non-conductive bath cooling. Real brakes too.
• 1.5 million mile pre-release testing with 200 cars.
• Unlimited mileage bumper to bumper warranty.

I probably forgot dozens of little things. I did consider both the MS and MX, since I am losing faith in the ability of Tesla to be honest about the Model 3 rollout. Nov-Jan my arse. Not even an invite yet, 2 yr, 2m, 8 days and counting. The P3D I want is probably over a year out anyways if not more. It will cost at least as much as the i-Pace fully loaded. Except the P3D isn't.

 

[MXWing]

Ignoring driving abilities in general, here's what I can remember.
Note: This is based on preliminary data. Includes optional equipment.

• Less money than Model S 75D.
• HUD.
• Bird's Eye 360° view.
• 99 mph AEB, 112 mph for autosteering and ACC.
• More headroom, both front and rear (rear by 3"). Rear legroom identical.
• Cab Forward design allows ample passenger room in a 12" shorter length, yet longer wheelbase, and ~same sized boot (25cuft/26cuft)
• Roof grab handles for all seating for easier ingress and egress. Get in the back seat of an MS to understand.
• 295 miles WLTP (not NEDC, EPA unknown)
• One pedal driving or creep, you choose.
• Over twice the regen, programmable.
• Heat pump, electrically heated windshield.
• Activity band - lock everything in the car, including your keys when you go play, wear a waterproof wrist band.
• Driver configurable car dynamics saved to your cellphone, recalled by BT.
• Departure time based programmable charging.
• Front charge port.
• Air suspension will lift car 50% higher than Model S for challenging situations. Automatically lowers as speed increases.
• Anti-rollover system.
• 50/50 weight bias.
• Blind spot monitor LED on side mirrors, dash, HUD. If you try to change lanes into a oncoming car/MC it pushes back at you.
• Spare tire
• Accelerator sound to judge speed by ear, can be turned on or off.
• Quieter interior.
• 20 way leather cooled and heated seats.
• 4 zone AC.
• 825 watt surround sound. (Carplay coming soon, OTAU)
• Premium leather and wood interior.
• Storage compartments in interior.
• All lighting is LED including ambient lighting.
• Land Rover derived rough terrain technology.
• "Unstick" snow mode. Creep mode for ice. ADsR for mixed terrain.
• Traction control systems can be disengaged if desired.
• 12 paint colors, many kinds of interiors.
• Battery, motors, and inverters have track level cooling, some by non-conductive bath cooling. Real brakes too.
• 1.5 million mile pre-release testing with 200 cars.
• Unlimited mileage bumper to bumper warranty.

I probably forgot dozens of little things. I did consider both the MS and MX, since I am losing faith in the ability of Tesla to be honest about the Model 3 rollout. Nov-Jan my arse. Not even an invite yet, 2 yr, 2m, 8 days and counting. The P3D I want is probably over a year out anyways if not more. It will cost at least as much as the i-Pace fully loaded. Except the P3D isn't.

Nice, you should do a 3 way between the 3, S and iPace as I don't think the X is in your interest.

Some of these I'm not sure about.. like..

Anti-roll over? Do Tesla's roll over?

Do you need a spare tire with the limited range? Effective range is range / 2.

Storage? IPace frunk can hold a pack of tampons and a few pencils. Model 3 can fit carryon luggage.

I certainly would LIKE some of these things on Tesla, but none is a MUST have like nationwide supercharging network.

 

[McRat]

Nice, you should do a 3 way between the 3, S and iPace as I don't think the X is in your interest.

Some of these I'm not sure about.. like..

Anti-roll over? Do Tesla's roll over?

Do you need a spare tire with the limited range? Effective range is range / 2.

Storage? IPace frunk can hold a pack of tampons and a few pencils. Model 3 can fit carryon luggage.

I certainly would LIKE some of these things on Tesla, but none is a MUST have like nationwide supercharging network.

What a Model 3 is or is not is of no importance to me. I never pay over MSRP, ever. It's a character flaw. So Model 3's are not available for me of any version. I guess if it was that important, I would had ditched work and waited in line like Walmart on Black Friday, instead of working on a satellite that needed last minute changes. You're welcome Elon. IIRC, it was a SpaceX payload.

I doubt rolling any 4700lb car with a 75 to 100 kWh battery in the floor is much of a risk. I do not fully understand it, it's electronics dealing with individual brakes, like stability control.

A spare tire is not even an option in a Tesla, right? Most flats happen within 10 miles of home.

I think the Froot (it's British, remember?) is for the EVSE and perhaps chains. That's it. Oddly enough, the Model S has a classic Jaguar hood, and the Jaguar has a classic EV hood. Bizarre.

Yeah, I think you can see what Jaguar did. They found nagging little bothers in the Tesla, and fixed them.

I don't need flyover state charging, since I uh, fly over . That's why they are called flyover states. A Model S/X can't tow a race trailer anyways. The Jaguar will provide a non-stop radius covering Ensenada BC, Las Vegas, San Luis Obispo. All of which have destination charging facilities. Pretty much all of Southern California.

But let's assume it's just a hot shot. And I'm not willing to use hypermiling skills. 120 miles - Tijuana/San Diego - Desert playgrounds - Ventura. All of the heart of SoCal. The greater LA, SD, Inland Empire area without charging. 20 million people.

Skiing, deserts, amusement parks, concert halls, museums, customers, gaming, horse races, sports areas, parks, twisty mountain roads, beaches, fishing, hunting, all within range of the EV400 from my home. I picked my location for a reason.

 

[MXWing]

What a Model 3 is or is not is of no importance to me. I never pay over MSRP, ever. It's a character flaw. So Model 3's are not available for me of any version. I guess if it was that important, I would had ditched work and waited in line like Walmart on Black Friday, instead of working on a satellite that needed last minute changes. You're welcome Elon. IIRC, it was a SpaceX payload.

I doubt rolling any 4700lb car with a 75 to 100 kWh battery in the floor is much of a risk. I do not fully understand it, it's electronics dealing with individual brakes, like stability control.

A spare tire is not even an option in a Tesla, right? Most flats happen within 10 miles of home.

I think the Froot (it's British, remember?) is for the EVSE and perhaps chains. That's it. Oddly enough, the Model S has a classic Jaguar hood, and the Jaguar has a classic EV hood. Bizarre.

Yeah, I think you can see what Jaguar did. They found nagging little bothers in the Tesla, and fixed them.

I don't need flyover state charging, since I uh, fly over . That's why they are called flyover states. A Model S/X can't tow a race trailer anyways. The Jaguar will provide a non-stop radius covering Ensenada BC, Las Vegas, San Luis Obispo. All of which have destination charging facilities. Pretty much all of Southern California.

But let's assume it's just a hot shot. And I'm not willing to use hypermiling skills. 120 miles - Tijuana/San Diego - Desert playgrounds - Ventura. All of the heart of SoCal. The greater LA, SD, Inland Empire area without charging. 20 million people.

Skiing, deserts, amusement parks, concert halls, museums, customers, gaming, horse races, sports areas, parks, twisty mountain roads, beaches, fishing, hunting, all within range of the EV400 from my home. I picked my location for a reason.

You’ve been waiting all this time for a 3 and now it’s actually here you managed in your mind to antisell Tesla to yourself once again.

Having practical Tesla ownership experience I roll my eyes at any discussions of destination chargers, fast chargers because even for me - as painless as superchargining is, it is infinitely more painful than gassing up if you want to be somewhere quick. My personal risk tolerance and time tolerance doesn’t want me to think anymore beyond what is needed to charge with Tesla’s network.

Messing with disparate 3rd party DC fast charging with few slots, unknown slots, non standard payment systems, etc etc. No thanks

You have made some huge assumptions that Jaguar will deliver and will be able to support the iPace and will be everything you want it to be and will be everything that Tesla is not. Good luck.

 

[McRat]

You’ve been waiting all this time for a 3 and now it’s actually here you managed in your mind to antisell Tesla to yourself once again.

Having practical Tesla ownership experience I roll my eyes at any discussions of destination chargers, fast chargers because even for me - as painless as superchargining is, it is infinitely more painful than gassing up if you want to be somewhere quick. My personal risk tolerance and time tolerance doesn’t want me to think anymore beyond what is needed to charge with Tesla’s network.

Messing with disparate 3rd party DC fast charging with few slots, unknown slots, non standard payment systems, etc etc. No thanks

You have made some huge assumptions that Jaguar will deliver and will be able to support the iPace and will be everything you want it to be and will be everything that Tesla is not. Good luck.

That's the problem.

The Model 3 is not here. Not available for me to buy, with no expected date.

I was given a Nov-Jan delivery date for the FP. Then a Feb-Apr. Then a May-July. Soon perhaps a Aug-Oct. I don't know where these Model 3s are going, but I've only seen 2 in California in real life. Both in the last month.

But then I got to thinking. What do I really want? The Model 3 P series. I would have to go back to the end of the line again. How many years will that be?

OK, what about the FP? Is it really the car I want? It's got good EV specs. Long Range and low cost. But what about it as a car?

Do I want a black interior with a glass roof in California? No. Do I want the PUP? No. Do I want the brakes it comes with? No. Do I want a 13 second RWD car with no posi? No. Do I want to turn off all babysitters? Yes. Does the AEB really work on new Teslas? I have no idea, but stories I hear make me question it. I've personally seen it work on a Chevrolet and 3 Cadillacs. These are commodity type systems. I imagine Jaguar will have a similar system. They are not going to develop it themselves most likely, just tune it with the tool kit from the component MFR.

I don't anticipate remote charging often if at all. It's not something I need. I simply pointed out the possible situation for a 240 mile EV when you are dead center in SoCal. I don't believe the range is 240 either.

Jaguar is already delivering i-Paces to VIPs. And 1.5 million of testing by Dec 2017 with 200 cars. Lots of press testing going on.

In car years, it's now 2019. Tesla has 2012&2015 new cars for sale, and 2017 cars that are backordered.

But first year models are always a huge risk. Not just in quality, but in the delivery.

A Model P3D in May for $84k, and I'd have paid cash that day.

A P3D in May of 2019? I'd wait to see what Porsche was going sell.

Who knows? I might trade the i-Pace in on a P3D. All I know about the future is that it is not here.

 

[Peteski]

Why does everyone want a HUD these days? What does it really offer over a clear dash display? I could see the point in a Model 3 because it doesn't have a dash, but seems like a waste of time in any other car. Usually an expensive option too. I can't say I've ever wished for a HUD in any car I've ever driven.

Tesla could use a 360 surround view though. That's the one feature I miss in this car.

 

[Peteski]

Ignoring driving abilities in general, here's what I can remember.
Note: This is based on preliminary data. Includes optional equipment.

• Less money than Model S 75D.
• HUD.
• Bird's Eye 360° view.
• 99 mph AEB, 112 mph for autosteering and ACC.
• More headroom, both front and rear (rear by 3"). Rear legroom identical.
• Cab Forward design allows ample passenger room in a 12" shorter length, yet longer wheelbase, and ~same sized boot (25cuft/26cuft)
• Roof grab handles for all seating for easier ingress and egress. Get in the back seat of an MS to understand.
• 295 miles WLTP (not NEDC, EPA unknown)
• One pedal driving or creep, you choose.
• Over twice the regen, programmable.
• Heat pump, electrically heated windshield.
• Activity band - lock everything in the car, including your keys when you go play, wear a waterproof wrist band.
• Driver configurable car dynamics saved to your cellphone, recalled by BT.
• Departure time based programmable charging.
• Front charge port.
• Air suspension will lift car 50% higher than Model S for challenging situations. Automatically lowers as speed increases.
• Anti-rollover system.
• 50/50 weight bias.
• Blind spot monitor LED on side mirrors, dash, HUD. If you try to change lanes into a oncoming car/MC it pushes back at you.
• Spare tire
• Accelerator sound to judge speed by ear, can be turned on or off.
• Quieter interior.
• 20 way leather cooled and heated seats.
• 4 zone AC.
• 825 watt surround sound. (Carplay coming soon, OTAU)
• Premium leather and wood interior.
• Storage compartments in interior.
• All lighting is LED including ambient lighting.
• Land Rover derived rough terrain technology.
• "Unstick" snow mode. Creep mode for ice. AdSR for mixed terrain.
• Traction control systems can be disengaged if desired.
• 12 paint colors, many kinds of interiors.
• Battery, motors, and inverters have track level cooling, some by non-conductive bath cooling. Real brakes too.
• 1.5 million mile pre-release testing with 200 cars.
• Unlimited mileage bumper to bumper warranty.

I probably forgot dozens of little things. I did consider both the MS and MX, since I am losing faith in the ability of Tesla to be honest about the Model 3 rollout. Nov-Jan my arse. Not even an invite yet, 2 yr, 2m, 8 days and counting. The P3D I want is probably over a year out anyways if not more. It will cost at least as much as the i-Pace fully loaded. Except the P3D isn't.

I don't know about the S but quite a few of those points you have listed are not valid against the X and some I know the S can do too. There are most definitely pros and cons to all cars, however much we love them.

But the iPace sounds like your car, so no need to justify your choices here. Go buy one and have fun.

 

[electracity]

I think most of the people who ordered the iPace would never have even considered a Tesla in the first place because they are so different in both style and size. Jaguar have targeted more conservative buyers who wanted something a bit more traditional looking than a Tesla, especially the interior. It's probably a bigger market to be honest, especially in Europe with the smaller dimensions.

That may be true from the U.K. perspective. In the U.S. there really aren't Jaguar buyers anymore (people who buy Jaguar repeatedly). Buying the iPace is a radical choice, not a conservative one IMO. No charging network, next to no support, and many new car systems from a company infamous for poor electronics. The typical iPace buyer in the U.S. is "bleeding edge" and wants something more unique than a Tesla.

I prefer the looks and feature set of the iPace relative to Tesla's current offerings. But I'm too interested in a functioning vehicle to buy one. I'm also really happy I did not follow through on my X deposit and get an early vehicle. I would have hated that too.

 

[McRat]

That may be true from the U.K. perspective. In the U.S. there really aren't Jaguar buyers anymore (people who buy Jaguar repeatedly). Buying the iPace is a radical choice, not a conservative one IMO. No charging network, next to no support, and many new car systems from a company infamous for poor electronics. The typical iPace buyer in the U.S. is "bleeding edge" and wants something more unique than a Tesla.

I prefer the looks and feature set of the iPace relative to Tesla's current offerings. But I'm too interested in a functioning vehicle to buy one. I'm also really happy I did not follow through on my X deposit and get an early vehicle. I would have hated that too.

This will be my first import car in decades, so for me it's really bleeding edge!

Jag remains a designer badge however. But with how the i-Pace looks, I doubt anyone will know it's a Jag or electric. They will think they just got their ass kicked by a FWD 4-banger kidmobile. Tesla performance is about the worst kept secret today.

This is what a Jag is supposed to look like:

 

[Jayrod]

Why does everyone want a HUD these days? What does it really offer over a clear dash display? I could see the point in a Model 3 because it doesn't have a dash, but seems like a waste of time in any other car. Usually an expensive option too. I can't say I've ever wished for a HUD in any car I've ever driven.

Tesla could use a 360 surround view though. That's the one feature I miss in this car.

I’ve had several HUD vehicles and it’s totaly worthless. It’s a cool gimmick but never did I actually use it for anything. Cool the speedo is 5 inches higher etc.

 

[McRat]

I’ve had several HUD vehicles and it’s totaly worthless. It’s a cool gimmick but never did I actually use it for anything. Cool the speedo is 5 inches higher etc.

I turn them off first thing. They bug me. I pretty much know how fast I'm going with looking a speedo within 5 mph up to any legal speed limit, and I use OnStar for nav.

But then again, all I listen to AM talk radio, and even then only maybe 5% of the time. I had a car for 3 months before I tested to see if the stereo worked (Z06) and that was to see if they hurt it after installing the rollbar, since some tracks broadcast 'call to lanes' via radio. I still don't know how to fully operate the radios on my cars, some are 16 years old. I don't have station presets, and when I want music, I use a USB mini-dongle with my library. I don't even carry a cellphone in a car.

Does that mean nobody wants a stereo in their car, or wants their car to interface with the cellphone? No.

Most the items I listed were from complaint/suggestion threads on this site. HUD is a popular suggestion.

 

[MXWing]

That's the problem.

The Model 3 is not here. Not available for me to buy, with no expected date.

I was given a Nov-Jan delivery date for the FP. Then a Feb-Apr. Then a May-July. Soon perhaps a Aug-Oct. I don't know where these Model 3s are going, but I've only seen 2 in California in real life. Both in the last month.

But then I got to thinking. What do I really want? The Model 3 P series. I would have to go back to the end of the line again. How many years will that be?

OK, what about the FP? Is it really the car I want? It's got good EV specs. Long Range and low cost. But what about it as a car?

Do I want a black interior with a glass roof in California? No. Do I want the PUP? No. Do I want the brakes it comes with? No. Do I want a 13 second RWD car with no posi? No. Do I want to turn off all babysitters? Yes. Does the AEB really work on new Teslas? I have no idea, but stories I hear make me question it. I've personally seen it work on a Chevrolet and 3 Cadillacs. These are commodity type systems. I imagine Jaguar will have a similar system. They are not going to develop it themselves most likely, just tune it with the tool kit from the component MFR.

I don't anticipate remote charging often if at all. It's not something I need. I simply pointed out the possible situation for a 240 mile EV when you are dead center in SoCal. I don't believe the range is 240 either.

Jaguar is already delivering i-Paces to VIPs. And 1.5 million of testing by Dec 2017 with 200 cars. Lots of press testing going on.

In car years, it's now 2019. Tesla has 2012&2015 new cars for sale, and 2017 cars that are backordered.

But first year models are always a huge risk. Not just in quality, but in the delivery.

A Model P3D in May for $84k, and I'd have paid cash that day.

A P3D in May of 2019? I'd wait to see what Porsche was going sell.

Who knows? I might trade the i-Pace in on a P3D. All I know about the future is that it is not here.

If Tesla was only making 350 Model 3's in a quarter, yeah you will die of old age before you see your Model 3 and best to get anything else. When you were reserved, they were making 0 Model 3's so your wait time was INFINITE.

Closing in on 5000 cars per week, they are already at 3500 - they will get to your car soon. Tesla only has 2 quarters to deliver as many cars as they can to maximize the tax credit rebate for their customers. You better believe they are going to push as many P Model 3s as they can in that time period.

Do you mind sharing where are you in CA approximately? I'm in Orange County and I see a minimum of 2 Model 3s every day and I don't even drive all that much. They are definitely here. You will see dozens if you randomly visited a service center snooping around seeing cars for delivery.

People have Model 3's in Arizona and have managed to survive. In CA I am sure you can.

Do you wan't PUP? No but if you want the car this year, it comes with the territory - so it is what it is.

Does AEB really work? Not knowing if it doesn't work, doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Rent an iPace for a year and pay all the depreciation on a trade in? Makes zero sense.

Competence recognizes competence and I think you are one of those guys. The problem is even competent guys have weird hang ups that causes them to make bone head decisions either through impatience, irrational preferences or stubbornness.

Most anyone else I'd tell them to go ahead and get the iPace and I'd just snicker at them. Their car, their money.

With you, I'll fight for you.

In the EV Game, Tesla is the undisputed king despite ALL OF THEIR PROBLEMS. It's not even remotely up for debate.

I do plan on burning every single iPace at a light because I can. I'll feel bad if its you.

 

[McRat]

If Tesla was only making 350 Model 3's in a quarter, yeah you will die of old age before you see your Model 3 and best to get anything else. When you were reserved, they were making 0 Model 3's so your wait time was INFINITE.

Closing in on 5000 cars per week, they are already at 3500 - they will get to your car soon. Tesla only has 2 quarters to deliver as many cars as they can to maximize the tax credit rebate for their customers. You better believe they are going to push as many P Model 3s as they can in that time period.

Do you mind sharing where are you in CA approximately? I'm in Orange County and I see a minimum of 2 Model 3s every day and I don't even drive all that much. They are definitely here. You will see dozens if you randomly visited a service center snooping around seeing cars for delivery.

People have Model 3's in Arizona and have managed to survive. In CA I am sure you can.

Do you wan't PUP? No but if you want the car this year, it comes with the territory - so it is what it is.

Does AEB really work? Not knowing if it doesn't work, doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Rent an iPace for a year and pay all the depreciation on a trade in? Makes zero sense.

Competence recognizes competence and I think you are one of those guys. The problem is even competent guys have weird hang ups that causes them to make bone head decisions either through impatience, irrational preferences or stubbornness.

Most anyone else I'd tell them to go ahead and get the iPace and I'd just snicker at them. Their car, their money.

With you, I'll fight for you.

In the EV Game, Tesla is the undisputed king despite ALL OF THEIR PROBLEMS. It's not even remotely up for debate.

They made 6,250 last month. That was double the Jan-Feb-Mar-Apr weekly rates. I believe most went to Canada, and I question the accuracy. If they 'sold' almost 1/3 of all existing Model 3's just recently, why didn't we hear a flood of folk getting the cars in May?
They have been saying 1000+++ a week for several months now. It's tiring after 2+ quarters of it. They hit 1550 supposedly recently.

The problem is that the balance sheet drives the sales claims, not the production control department. Tesla releases a constant stream, perhaps more now than ever before to keep the name in the media as often as possible. And truth becomes the victim when it comes to market capitalization.

But that is neither here nor there. I might not get a glass roof black interior RWD one-legged car before the rebates end. So $56k for the smaller and slower M3LR or $77k for much higher option FE?

AEB situations shown on this board by owners hitting cars that my cars won't hit puzzles me. Like that armored car strike. My cars don't do that. Test cars I've been in don't do that.

I could be wrong, and this is a gamble, but the FE might actually appreciate in a year. Unless something changes, Teslas will cost $7500 more next year, but Jaguars won't. So pricing difference becomes even more significant, and Jaguar will not keep up with demand. Waymo is ordering thousands of them alone, and it's truly a Global car.

If Tesla would keep me updated on realistic delivery schedules, I would not have even looked at the Jag whatsoever. Nor any other EV at this stage. I can't help but think that if they kept their word, and there would be no transfer of reservations, USA first, California first like they said, I'd be driving a Model 3 today. My invite could come today. Or it could come in December. There is no way to know since they don't tell the truth about it.

 

[MXWing]

They made 6,250 last month. That was double the Jan-Feb-Mar-Apr weekly rates. I believe most went to Canada, and I question the accuracy. If they 'sold' almost 1/3 of all existing Model 3's just recently, why didn't we hear a flood of folk getting the cars in May?
They have been saying 1000+++ a week for several months now. It's tiring after 2+ quarters of it. They hit 1550 supposedly recently.

The problem is that the balance sheet drives the sales claims, not the production control department. Tesla releases a constant stream, perhaps more now than ever before to keep the name in the media as often as possible. And truth becomes the victim when it comes to market capitalization.

But that is neither here nor there. I might not get a glass roof black interior RWD one-legged car before the rebates end. So $56k for the smaller and slower M3LR or $77k for much higher option FE?

AEB situations shown on this board by owners hitting cars that my cars won't hit puzzles me. Like that armored car strike. My cars don't do that. Test cars I've been in don't do that.

I could be wrong, and this is a gamble, but the FE might actually appreciate in a year. Unless something changes, Teslas will cost $7500 more next year, but Jaguars won't. So pricing difference becomes even more significant, and Jaguar will not keep up with demand. Waymo is ordering thousands of them alone, and it's truly a Global car.

If Tesla would keep me updated on realistic delivery schedules, I would not have even looked at the Jag whatsoever. Nor any other EV at this stage. I can't help but think that if they kept their word, and there would be no transfer of reservations, USA first, California first like they said, I'd be driving a Model 3 today. My invite could come today. Or it could come in December. There is no way to know since they don't tell the truth about it.

It's simple.

Tesla needs to delay it's 200,000th EV Sold in the United States until July 1st. Once 200,000 cars are sold, the flood gates open. Every Tesla sold from July 1st through 12-31-2018 gets the full $7,500 credit. Your P3D and my P3D is going to be somewhere in there.

Evidence that supports this is even S and X's deliveries are delayed till post July 1st.

Being that the P3D is the highest margin Model 3, it gets made before any other Model 3. It's financial suicide for Tesla NOT to make it, make lots of it, and deliver them THIS YEAR.

I'll be honest I haven't studied AEB systems across cars all that much. Really because my defensive driving habits in over 20 years don't allow AEB systems to even be tested.

You rear end something, you are an idiot and a danger to society - there's no and if, buts, AEB, auto pilot this, bla bla bla.

I would like to hope Tesla develops it anyway and is the best in class but I never plan to even come close to finding out how good it is.

Also, I am a Tesla owner and -mildly- annoyed I can't configure my P3D when 1st and 2nd day line waiters can. I'm only mildly annoyed because as I am telling you I expect to still get delivery this year in any case due to reasons outlined above.

 

[Peteski]

the fact that the Jaguar looks to be similar in size to the X but only has 5 seats makes me think that it's going to have a way better second row experience and possibly more trunk space? who knows, i'm signed up to drive one as soon as it hits the local dealers lot, same with the Mission-E, Mercedes EQC & Audi E-tron, all beautiful Electric cars.

the race is on, and it's good!

I sat in an iPace today. It is most definitely smaller than the X inside, both in second row and trunk, the latter by a country mile. It had decent headroom in the front, but the X feels way more roomy inside. I didn't like the interior design of the iPace at all and the quality was not amazing either. To be brutally honest I was expecting much more from this car.

But anyway, it is less roomy regardless of wheelbase and cab forward design. It is still a reasonable size though if you don't need Model X kind of space.

 

[Jigglypuff]

This is a more fan-based discussion than one based in reality.

 

[Mrcook4590]

Storage? IPace frunk can hold a pack of tampons and a few pencils. Model 3 can fit carryon luggage.

OMG! So funny!!!

I feel that Jaguar interiors are nicely made but claustrophobic by nature. I was all set on getting my husband (whose parents are British) a convertible Jag 15 years ago, but I sat in it and felt totally closed in upon. I hated it, and I didn't think he would even fit in it with his height (6' 7"). Both our S and X have more room for the seats to go back, which is so rare!

 

[McRat]

I feel that Jaguar interiors are nicely made but claustrophobic by nature. I was all set on getting my husband (whose parents are British) a convertible Jag 15 years ago, but I sat in it and felt totally closed in upon. I hated it, and I didn't think he would even fit in it with his height (6' 7"). Both our S and X have more room for the seats to go back, which is so rare!

When I climb in and out of a Model S, especially the back seat, clumsy would be the right adjective. The headroom is no good for a large car, especially for an adult in the back seat, which doesn't even recline like other cars in it's price range. Nor did they bother even putting in grab bars. WTF? You sort of duck and roll to escape like you would if the car was on fire.

Regardless, the Jag EV is not a sportscar, or a "large" sedan. It's a full foot shorter than an MS, but with a longer wheelbase. There is not a convertible option, nor does it have a long V8 sized hood like the F-Type or Model S. This is why the i-Pace can't store luggage in the nose, because there was never room for a gas engine. It's not an F-Pace that was repurposed. The whole cabin and chassis are different.

This video shows how claustrophobic the i-Pace is, FF to 2:00 to get a look at the head room:

 

[gangzoom]

To be brutally honest I was expecting much more from this car.

Completly agree. Had a chance to compare the iPace whilst having a S and X parked up next to it.

The iPace is a Model 3 rival but priced at the S/X level. The best thing about the iPace is its badge, the importance of which cannot be underestimated.

Lots of people just dont like Tesla, and the motoring press generally feel much more comfortable talking about tradtional brands.

Jaguar has a winner on their hands, but take away the badge it feels very mundane/ordinary compared to a X, from the dash layout, the 'hump' in the middle row rear seat, tiny boot with no false floor, everything about feels looking at the past than the future. If you didn't know which car was designed first I'm 100% sure everyone would say the X is the newer car.

However Jaguar releasing the iPace will get more people into EVs which is only a good thing.

 

[Peteski]

Completly agree. Had a chance to compare the iPace whilst having a S and X parked up next to it.

I guess you were at the same Fully Charged show at Silverstone?

For me the comparison confirmed that the X is a proper family friendly car, while the iPace is more of a single or couple's toy. The X has a much more roomy, futuristic feel inside the cabin and way more luggage space. The iPace had enough headroom for my 6' 1" frame, but the cockpit design still made it feel very cramped in comparison, partly because you sit so low down in the car to provide that headroom. The show car had the panoramic roof too, but that was hardly noticeable from the front seats. The whole cabin ambience was underwhelming and too old-fashioned for my taste. I'm sure some people will love it and I expect it drives very well. The F-Pace is actually a lot more practical as a family car with a decent sized boot, so anyone comparing F-Pace to iPace will be disappointed if they expect the same in EV form.