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Starting to get expensive to charge….

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Not understanding why the option is to scrap it, rather than sell it on? ....
Simply because spdpsba stated that the 3.2ltr engine was 'bad for the environment'.

Selling the car won't change that.

So that leaves the option of taking the car out of the system and replacing it. I wondered if spdpsba felt that that would be a better solution for the environment?
 
But presumably number of miles driven doesn't increase as a consequence, thus an increasing portion of miles-driven is taken up by EVs.

That will depend on how many of the additional household vehicles are used by additional householders, or vehicles used by previously non local drivers - ie as people who were not previously drivers in their own right become upwardly mobile. This is also true of a growing population. I also suspect that some of the vehicles 'migrate' to higher populated urban areas, which is not really where you want the higher emission vehicles.
 
Simply because spdpsba stated that the 3.2ltr engine was 'bad for the environment'.

Selling the car won't change that.

So that leaves the option of taking the car out of the system and replacing it. I wondered if spdpsba felt that that would be a better solution for the environment?
I normally do not get dragged into this discussion as the rights and wrongs are to an extent perspectives and like ‘slicing the pie’ or ‘pie-ing’.

I am not suggesting here anything but as you wondered what I feel about this. This is what I know.

It is common knowledge electric vehicles (EVs) are better for the environment than gas cars, because they are more efficient and don't directly emit harmful gases that warm the planet. However, you have asked a slightly different question which is harder to answer. Say you have a perfectly good gas-powered car that may last several more years. Is it still environmentally friendly to replace it with an EV?

The complicating factor here is that all cars require a lot of energy to build. All the parts have to be made, transported around the world to assembly factories, built, then finally transported to the dealer or customer. Before a car has been driven a single mile, it already has had a substantial environmental impact. And EVs have an even greater environmental impact prior to that first mile because batteries require minerals that take lots of energy to get out of the ground and into usable form.

Indeed, there is generally an assumption in the right-to-repair and sustainability world that using products as long as possible is better for the environment than buying new ones for this exact reason. In most cases, such as with phones and laptops, that assumption is correct, because most of the emissions from such devices occur before customers ever receive them.

While roughly 10 percent of the life cycle emissions of gas cars comes from manufacturing, 85 percent of the life cycle emissions of, for example, the iPhone 13 come from manufacturing. Nearly all of the emissions produced by gas cars happen on the road. This, combined with how much less EVs emit from day-to-day use relative to their gas counterparts, drastically alters the conventional wisdom.

A quick caveat before we dive into the details:

There are two main variables in deciding whether replacing your used gas car with an EV is better for the environment than not. The first is how many miles you plan to keep driving your gas car for. The more miles you plan to log on it, the more likely it is that buying a new EV is the better option for the environment. The second is how the electricity in your area is produced.

As a very, very rough rule of thumb and erring on the conservative side, it is probably only better for the environment to keep your used gas car if you think it has less than 50,000 or so miles left in it. If you plan to put more than that on the gas car currently sitting in your driveway, it is almost certainly better for the environment to replace it with an EV.

Source and thanks to Bloomberg NEF and vice.com for the facts related to EV emissions.
 
I normally do not get dragged into this discussion as the rights and wrongs are to an extent perspectives and like ‘slicing the pie’ or ‘pie-ing’.

I am not suggesting here anything but as you wondered what I feel about this. This is what I know.

It is common knowledge electric vehicles (EVs) are better for the environment than gas cars, because they are more efficient and don't directly emit harmful gases that warm the planet. However, you have asked a slightly different question which is harder to answer. Say you have a perfectly good gas-powered car that may last several more years. Is it still environmentally friendly to replace it with an EV?

The complicating factor here is that all cars require a lot of energy to build. All the parts have to be made, transported around the world to assembly factories, built, then finally transported to the dealer or customer. Before a car has been driven a single mile, it already has had a substantial environmental impact. And EVs have an even greater environmental impact prior to that first mile because batteries require minerals that take lots of energy to get out of the ground and into usable form.

Indeed, there is generally an assumption in the right-to-repair and sustainability world that using products as long as possible is better for the environment than buying new ones for this exact reason. In most cases, such as with phones and laptops, that assumption is correct, because most of the emissions from such devices occur before customers ever receive them.

While roughly 10 percent of the life cycle emissions of gas cars comes from manufacturing, 85 percent of the life cycle emissions of, for example, the iPhone 13 come from manufacturing. Nearly all of the emissions produced by gas cars happen on the road. This, combined with how much less EVs emit from day-to-day use relative to their gas counterparts, drastically alters the conventional wisdom.

A quick caveat before we dive into the details:

There are two main variables in deciding whether replacing your used gas car with an EV is better for the environment than not. The first is how many miles you plan to keep driving your gas car for. The more miles you plan to log on it, the more likely it is that buying a new EV is the better option for the environment. The second is how the electricity in your area is produced.

As a very, very rough rule of thumb and erring on the conservative side, it is probably only better for the environment to keep your used gas car if you think it has less than 50,000 or so miles left in it. If you plan to put more than that on the gas car currently sitting in your driveway, it is almost certainly better for the environment to replace it with an EV.

Source and thanks to Bloomberg NEF and vice.com for the facts related to EV emissions.

He asked for it :)

Actually, you baited him then he asked for it. Be that as it may, please keep it short and sweet tldr and all that 🤪
 
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Cheshire <> Kent, 500 miles. £83.93 on SuC & Ultra Rapids. £6 to re-charge at home. Total £89.93.

The old diesel would do it in 50 Litres @ £1.72 per litre = £87.50

My total cost of ownership model just took a massive hit.
Interesting. I did 500 miles over christmas at £35 using only superchargers. How is there such a difference?
 
I normally do not get dragged into this discussion as the rights and wrongs are to an extent perspectives and like ‘slicing the pie’ or ‘pie-ing’.

I am not suggesting here anything but as you wondered what I feel about this. This is what I know.

It is common knowledge electric vehicles (EVs) are better for the environment than gas cars, because they are more efficient and don't directly emit harmful gases that warm the planet. However, you have asked a slightly different question which is harder to answer. Say you have a perfectly good gas-powered car that may last several more years. Is it still environmentally friendly to replace it with an EV?

The complicating factor here is that all cars require a lot of energy to build. All the parts have to be made, transported around the world to assembly factories, built, then finally transported to the dealer or customer. Before a car has been driven a single mile, it already has had a substantial environmental impact. And EVs have an even greater environmental impact prior to that first mile because batteries require minerals that take lots of energy to get out of the ground and into usable form.

Indeed, there is generally an assumption in the right-to-repair and sustainability world that using products as long as possible is better for the environment than buying new ones for this exact reason. In most cases, such as with phones and laptops, that assumption is correct, because most of the emissions from such devices occur before customers ever receive them.

While roughly 10 percent of the life cycle emissions of gas cars comes from manufacturing, 85 percent of the life cycle emissions of, for example, the iPhone 13 come from manufacturing. Nearly all of the emissions produced by gas cars happen on the road. This, combined with how much less EVs emit from day-to-day use relative to their gas counterparts, drastically alters the conventional wisdom.

A quick caveat before we dive into the details:

There are two main variables in deciding whether replacing your used gas car with an EV is better for the environment than not. The first is how many miles you plan to keep driving your gas car for. The more miles you plan to log on it, the more likely it is that buying a new EV is the better option for the environment. The second is how the electricity in your area is produced.

As a very, very rough rule of thumb and erring on the conservative side, it is probably only better for the environment to keep your used gas car if you think it has less than 50,000 or so miles left in it. If you plan to put more than that on the gas car currently sitting in your driveway, it is almost certainly better for the environment to replace it with an EV.

Source and thanks to Bloomberg NEF and vice.com for the facts related to EV emissions.
Thing is though. Most people buying an EV are not scrapping their ICE, they sell it to someone else who sells their car etc.
So the ICE in question probably still does the same number of miles in its life either way. Somewhere down the line a car may be scrapped as a result but who knows what or exactly when so trying to estimate the impact of any one single purchase is impossible only the general trends can be determined. Does anyone know exactly how old and clean/dirty the average car being scrapped is because that is what the purchase of a new vehicle of any kind should be compared to surely when working out the footprint.
 
Interesting. I did 500 miles over christmas at £35 using only superchargers. How is there such a difference?

How many kWh did you charge?

At 250 Wh/mi (which would be pretty efficient for winter) you’re using 125 kWh, which is £75 at standard supercharger prices. Obviously the total cost will be cheaper depending on how much you charged at home.

For me, anything over 50p per kWh works out more expensive than my car.
 
Somewhere down the line a car may be scrapped as a result but who knows what or exactly when so trying to estimate the impact of any one single purchase is impossible only the general trends can be determined.

To my mind the key metric is the consumer who purchases (for 1st time) an EV, and therefore moves all THEIR miles from ICE to EV. Trickle-down is going to take as long as it takes (maybe Government will introduce a scrappage-scheme at some point, to hurry-up the rump)

2022 EVs (225K) was 15% market share. Total EVs in UK is 620K - out of 33.2m total cars. Pure ICE sales banned from 2030 so in next 7 years new sales will have to go from 15% to 100% (Hybrids banned from 2035, but I reckon by 2030 there will be no point in a hybrid)

Total new car sales circa 1.6m p.a., so if total fleet is 33.2m that suggests replacement will take 20 years


RAC site has:

"The average car or van in England is driven just 4% of the time, a figure that has barely changed in quarter of a century.

For the rest of the time the car or van is either parked at home (73%) or parked elsewhere (23%), for example at work.

However, with 18 million (65%) of Britain’s 27.6 million households having – or with the potential to have – enough off-street parking to accommodate at least one car or van there is a huge opportunity for charging electric vehicles at home.
"

The 65% off-street parking number is higher than I realised. When V2H / V2G is available I'll be a buyer