Still Waiting for Elon's Blog Post on Autopilot Update...

[cipherstream]

I hope this comes out with the UI refresh at the same time as rumored!

 

[BluestarE3]

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Twitter has become less about communication for him, and more about being a fluffer

Now that the Autopilot update has been announced, it turns out the problem for Elon is not about being a "fluffer" but, rather, being "fluffy":

But after a lot of analysis and getting some upgraded drivers from our supplier for the radar to expose more raw functionality we now believe that we can combine that with fleet learning and almost entirely eliminate the false positive – the false braking events – and enable the car to initiate braking no matter what the object is as long as it is not large and fluffy.

 

[TaoJones]

You might want to accept some inconveniences to get other improvements such as:

• TACC braking max ramp rate increased and latency reduced by a factor of five
• Now controls for two cars ahead using radar echo, improving cut-out response and reaction time to otherwise-invisible heavy braking events
• Will take highway exit if indicator on (8.0) or if nav system active (8.1). Available in the United States initially
• Car offsets in lane when overtaking a slower vehicle driving close to its lane edge
• Interface alerts are much more prominent, including flashing white border on instrument panel
• Improved cut-in detection using blinker on vehicle ahead
• Reduced likelihood of overtaking in right lane in Europe
• Improved auto lane change availability
• Car will not allow reengagement of Autosteer until parked if user ignores repeated warnings
• Automatic braking will now amplify user braking in emergencies
• In manual mode, alerts driver if about to leave the road and no torque on steering wheel has been detected since Autosteer was deactivated
• With further data gathering, car will activate Autosteer to avoid collision when probability ~100%
• Curve speed adaptation now uses fleet-learned roadway curvature...

Now that's just crazy talk right there!

Speaking of the last bullet point, this afternoon I was reminded of how far Autosteer has come whilst negotiating a curved transition. Marked for 40mph during the transition from one freeway to another, this 270-degree curve was easily negotiated at 51mph by the car. Which is to say it stepped down from 70 to 51 and back up to 70 quite smoothly.

Versus the first night Autosteer was out (Oct 15th, 2015) when a curved section of cold, dark Vermont interstate was transited at exactly 70mph with me thinking "If this breaks loose, I've got a fraction of a second to not meet a guardrail."

Good times.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

If I won't accept the added restrictions of 7.1, why would I accept even more restrictions in 8.0?

Spotify.

You know you want it. Plus once they move to Spotify then Slacker might no longer work.

On a more serious note I want it for the enhancement to adaptive cruise control so it adjust for people who have their blinkers on.

 

[Model S M.D.]

I guess it depends on how the new nag criteria are implemented. My first read of it was folks are going to actually have to drive with their hands on the wheel most of the time to avoid triggering the audio nag three times in 1 hour. But I have read a few different inerpretations since, so we will have to see once it's released. If it turns out to essentially require hands on wheel, then I could see a few people being upset.

Either way, I am just an interested spectator for now, since I am going to buy a "classic" Model S. (Even if it is a suddenly "3 times less safe" car since it doesn't have AP - it'll still be awesome to me. )

We won't know until this is rolled out, but it does sounds more like AP will basically require hands on the wheel in firmware 8.0. I don't think you can just silence the nag each time you hear it and keep your hands off the wheel. From the Electrek transcript:

"One of the ironies that we’ve seen is counter intuitive and a lot of people on the consumer watchdog sites and in some cases on regulatory sites have assumed that Autopilot accidents are more likely for new users. In fact, it is the opposite. Autopilot accidents are far more likely for expert users. It is not the neophytes. It’s the experts.

They get very comfortable with it and repeatedly ignore the car’s warnings. It’s like a reflex. The car will beep at them, they tug the wheel, the car will beep at them, they tug the wheel, and it becomes an unconscious reflex action. So we will see half a dozen or more, sometimes as many as 10 warning in one hour continuously ignored by the driver. We really want to avoid that situation."

 

[green1]

Spotify.

You know you want it. Plus once they move to Spotify then Slacker might no longer work.

On a more serious note I want it for the enhancement to adaptive cruise control so it adjust for people who have their blinkers on.

I have zero interest in spotify, and even if I did, Tesla has never, not even once, hinted that they plan to switch to spotify in north america.

Additionally, I place far more value on the ability to actually use autopilot then I do on having a service that I've never used in my entire life added to the car.

 

[green1]

You might want to accept some inconveniences to get other improvements such as:

• TACC braking max ramp rate increased and latency reduced by a factor of five
• Now controls for two cars ahead using radar echo, improving cut-out response and reaction time to otherwise-invisible heavy braking events
• Will take highway exit if indicator on (8.0) or if nav system active (8.1). Available in the United States initially
• Car offsets in lane when overtaking a slower vehicle driving close to its lane edge
• Interface alerts are much more prominent, including flashing white border on instrument panel
• Improved cut-in detection using blinker on vehicle ahead
• Reduced likelihood of overtaking in right lane in Europe
• Improved auto lane change availability
• Car will not allow reengagement of Autosteer until parked if user ignores repeated warnings
• Automatic braking will now amplify user braking in emergencies
• In manual mode, alerts driver if about to leave the road and no torque on steering wheel has been detected since Autosteer was deactivated
• With further data gathering, car will activate Autosteer to avoid collision when probability ~100%
• Curve speed adaptation now uses fleet-learned roadway curvature...

You seem to be of the mistaken impression that I think there's something wrong with the version of autopilot that I have now. It's what I bought, it's what I received in exchange for the money I paid, and it does exactly what I expected it to do, and exactly what I want it to do.

There isn't a single thing in that list that would make me give up the ability to use autopilot. If Tesla wants to improve upon what I bought, they are free to do so. But I own the car, not Tesla, so they are NOT authorized to remove ANY functionality from it under any circumstances short of a government order.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I have zero interest in spotify, and even if I did, Tesla has never, not even once, hinted that they plan to switch to spotify in north america.

Additionally, I place far more value on the ability to actually use autopilot then I do on having a service that I've never used in my entire life added to the car.

Tesla has not outright confirmed that it was bringing the service, but "sources" have told various bloggers about it.

Tesla to soon release Spotify app integration in its vehicles in the US

My original question was based on numerous improvements being made to AP that I was curious if that pushed you over. I don't see the added restriction as being that overly restrictive. It seems pretty benign to me. But, of course it was left pretty open to interpretation depending on what ignore meant. With 7.1 I was with you at least in terms of "WTF was Tesla thinking" when it came to detection of road type. That it sucked because it couldn't be implemented properly.

 

[ohmman]

We already have a "green1 bought it, he gets to keep it" thread. Let's keep that delicious business over there.

 

[S'toon]

This thread needs a title change now.

 

[green1]

Tesla has not outright confirmed that it was bringing the service, but "sources" have told various bloggers about it.

Tesla to soon release Spotify app integration in its vehicles in the US

My original question was based on numerous improvements being made to AP that I was curious if that pushed you over. I don't see the added restriction as being that overly restrictive. It seems pretty benign to me. But, of course it was left pretty open to interpretation depending on what ignore meant. With 7.1 I was with you at least in terms of "WTF was Tesla thinking" when it came to detection of road type. That it sucked because it couldn't be implemented properly.

I currently can go nag free for over an hour on the highway. Why would I voluntarily let Tesla reduce that to 1 minute and force me to pull over on the side of the road and park any time I miss 3/60ths of them? Not to mention I'd also have to accept all the 7.1 restrictions that I don't have right now.

And that's all to accept "improvements" to something that works just fine the way it is.

I'm sorry, you want to remove that much functionality from my vehicle, you'd better be giving me something AMAZING in return!

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

But I own the car, not Tesla, so they are NOT authorized to remove ANY functionality from it under any circumstances short of a government order.

The problem with that is Tesla added the latest restriction to AVOID a government order. So it's hard to blame Tesla for adding that. The previous 45mph or +5 over the speed limit was a piss poor implementation of a restriction that was only really done to appease the media.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I currently can go nag free for over an hour on the highway. Why would I voluntarily let Tesla reduce that to 1 minute and force me to pull over on the side of the road and park any time I miss 3/60ths of them? Not to mention I'd also have to accept all the 7.1 restrictions that I don't have right now.

And that's all to accept "improvements" to something that works just fine the way it is.

I'm sorry, you want to remove that much functionality from my vehicle, you'd better be giving me something AMAZING in return!

Well I thought it was amazing. Or at least gutsy in terms of what they plan on doing with the radar. I'm pretty interested in that.

As to the nag there is thing called Velco and these things called weights.

I rarely drive without at least a finger on the wheel anyways. I think AP is actually pretty atrocious in some cases so it puts me at ease.

 

[number12]

Is there a spark notes somewhere of 7.0 > 8.0 points. Is it just "alertness" prompts added? Or was 7.0 somehow functionally better in any way

 

[bradhs]

So, what does one to two weeks mean? Starting today or from the time he announced one to two weeks? I have a long distance solo trip planned and would love to do it on 8.0.

 

[studiojon]

How often does an audible nag occur if one is not holding the wheel? Is it a time thing, or does it depend on the road too?

It is absolutely condition dependent. I can go on a straight well-marked road for 10 minutes or more with no nag. Then if the road starts to curve, or the markings become less distinct, I will immediately get a "hold the wheel" indication. The worse the conditions, or the more curvy or indistinct the markings, the more frequent are the nags.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

We already have a "green1 bought it, he gets to keep it" thread. Let's keep that delicious business over there.

Does everyone who doesn't upgrade to V8.0 get their own thread?

I was gauging his response to see how resistance other people might be. He's generally been the most resistant person to upgrade.

 

[studiojon]

I really hope the AP lockout only applies to 3 nags in a row, not 3 spread out over an hour's course.

I'm usually always being nagged to hold the wheel, even though I am, and have to give light torque. I probably register two dozen nags in the course of an hour, but never exceeded 2 in a row.

This is IGNORED nags. And the beep version. So....... First nag is just a display with no beep. Doesn't count. Second nag is the beep. IF you do nothing with this, then that would count.

That not only makes sense to me, based on my experience you really do need to be available and in control by the time you get a beep nag.

And if you ignore 3 of those in an hour (don't touch wheel etc.) then you should have to pull over. IMHO

 

[Electroman]

Nags happen only when the system is stressed, and when conditions are good it happens at very long intervals. And even then a slight minute jerk to the wheel is all that is needed.

Green1 is crazy. His exaggerations are silly.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

This is IGNORED nags. And the beep version. So....... First nag is just a display with no beep. Doesn't count. Second nag is the beep. IF you do nothing with this, then that would count.

That not only makes sense to me, based on my experience you really do need to be available and in control by the time you get a beep nag.

And if you ignore 3 of those in an hour (don't touch wheel etc.) then you should have to pull over. IMHO

This is my interpretation as well. If this is the case I fail to see how it's really a restriction at all. It seems pretty benign to me.

Ugh, I wish Tesla would allow people to go back to a previous firmware version. That way people can at least experience the new version before judging it.