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Still worth getting a Model 3 if Electricity costs more than Gas?

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This is definitely where hybrids have advantage. Switch to the different energy depending on the price.

But...
I cannot give up electric range feeling. When I gave up my Volt and hated fighting for public chargers, I had no regret because electric drive was what I wanted all the time.

Bottom line, unless the price is ridiculously high, I will still pay for high electric bill.

I am addicted to the EV and going back to ICE is scaring me.

Nobody can truly appreciate the 'EV Life' until they experience for a while, THEN are forced back in an ICE vehicle. Then you realize how much better an EV drive system is than an ICE system.

The problem is the initial resistance to the EV concept. Most people will not even test drive an EV.
Funding EV use for driving schools for young drivers would be a great start.
 
Wow - so some person named @DrivingRockies rates my posts disagree (no biggie) and his/her profile says this when clicked on:

Tesla Motors Club - Error
This member limits who may view their full profile.

No only to they stealth disagree with no explanation - they won't ket you see their activity here. CRAZY!
I disagree about it being dubunked. It's the only thing you said and I didn't think it needed an explaination.

I limit it due to those on this site that search your history and disagree with all your posts based on a disagreement. Eliminates childishness.
 
Nobody can truly appreciate the 'EV Life' until they experience for a while, THEN are forced back in an ICE vehicle. Then you realize how much better an EV drive system is than an ICE system.

The problem is the initial resistance to the EV concept. Most people will not even test drive an EV.
Funding EV use for driving schools for young drivers would be a great start.

Agreed. That's why I love this story so much...

Test drive of a petrol car - Tesla Club Sweden
 
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EV drive is a luxury feature. Why bother having air conditioning? It reduces economy. Some luxury features are so good you just hate not having them. Electromotive propulsion is one of them.
The fact that EVs are also cheaper to operate per mile for most folk is just icing on the cake, not the fundamental purpose.
You will save money buying a used economy car.
The leading brand of EVs is also one of the more expensive brands.

EVs refuel while you sleep. Every morning you have enough 'gas' to get to work.
Far quicker throttle response in traffic. It's like holding your RPM at 6000 at all times in an ICE.
Smoother, quieter engine.
More fun, less stress in traffic.
HOV access in some states.
No smog checks where applicable.

Advantages for ICE cars:
Still the track weapon of choice.
Fast refueling.
Price.
Variety of models and sizes.
A quick addendum to the above post. Under the list of advantages to ICE vehicles it's interesting that you left off the one aspect that most gearheads would state as the most important difference. To a person, they all tend to love the sound of an internal combustion engine. To some extent, I understand this feeling. My two favorite things about the Triumph TR6s I rebuilt back in the day were growl of that straight 6, and the smell of all that leaded gas being burned. Yeah, I got over it! But my heart still quickens a few BPM when a British classic drives by.

Dan
 
A quick addendum to the above post. Under the list of advantages to ICE vehicles it's interesting that you left off the one aspect that most gearheads would state as the most important difference. To a person, they all tend to love the sound of an internal combustion engine. To some extent, I understand this feeling. My two favorite things about the Triumph TR6s I rebuilt back in the day were growl of that straight 6, and the smell of all that leaded gas being burned. Yeah, I got over it! But my heart still quickens a few BPM when a British classic drives by.

Dan

It would have to be both a pro and a con - invigorating sounds for you even though it isn't that quick, and telegraphing your acceleration to everyone around you while annoying most of them with loud noises.
 
states dont really reward you for going ev.They charge you a fee every year and say its for roads because you are not paying at the pump for it. The real only advantage of ice over ev is variety of choices and price ranges. Sure its nice not to use any oils/gas and its cleaner but still too new to know what maintinence costs- battery hold up in 10 yrs will be- electric motor issues dow the road? Computer rf possible side effects? I mean its already coming out that cell phones and cell towers pose threats to humans at certqain exposure levels.

Ev reliability is still uncharted territory

Real scientists who specialize in the effects of radiation on humans have a good grasp on how much radiation energy it takes to alter a cell's DNA. Cellphones and towers simply do not produce enough energy to alter DNA.

It would be like trying to punch a hole in a 5mm steel plate with a BB gun. We know it is possible if you can raise the velocity of the BB enough. We also know that BB guns aren't even close to that velocity by an order of magnitude.

Pseudo-scientists (often used as expert witnesses by legal teams) point to the fact that a BB can do it, and ignore the fact the velocity required is so high as to be utter nonsense.

We are coming very close to seeing if EVs have acceptable 10 year lifespans. But some the major players have deliberately done abusive testing to determine decay rates 10 years ago. And the components have improved dramatically in those 10 years.

Take ICE cars. In the 1960's, most engines needed overhaul before 50,000 miles. The rings, pistons, liners, valves, guides, and bearings could not survive. Metallurgy innovations as well as design innovations greatly improved their lives, even though today's engines experience far higher stresses than any time in history. Look no further than spark plug lifespan to get the jist of the development curve. Up from 3,000-7,500 miles to todays 100,000 mi plus lifespan even though compressions is way up, plugs are smaller, and voltages are higher.

If today's EVs had to compete with yesterday's ICE powerplants, nobody would buy an ICE vehicle. They would be too slow, require constant maintenance, and have a much shorter lifespan. So EVs have to accelerate innovation at a quicker rate than ICE innovations, but with far less capital investment. And? They are doing it every day.
 
A quick addendum to the above post. Under the list of advantages to ICE vehicles it's interesting that you left off the one aspect that most gearheads would state as the most important difference. To a person, they all tend to love the sound of an internal combustion engine. To some extent, I understand this feeling. My two favorite things about the Triumph TR6s I rebuilt back in the day were growl of that straight 6, and the smell of all that leaded gas being burned. Yeah, I got over it! But my heart still quickens a few BPM when a British classic drives by.

Dan
It's sort of a necessary evil. It is common to shift by ear when you're busy looking far ahead on the track, and you don't want an HUD to distract you. Shift lights are OK, if they are fully programmable, otherwise you find yourself passing redline in the lower gears, only to have it come on prematurely at higher gears.

But for urban driving? It's a cop magnet. Especially the new generation of dual mode exhausts that bypass the mufflers when at higher RPMs and pedal position. My ZR1 freakin' roared bone stock if gave it the spurs. It was a love/hate relationship.

I'll admit I love the growl of a V8 and always have. But I'm also a jerk. :D I would put in the clutch and blip the throttle in parking lots and set off 20 car alarms. Great fun. ;)
 
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states dont really reward you for going ev.They charge you a fee every year and say its for roads because you are not paying at the pump for it. The real only advantage of ice over ev is variety of choices and price ranges. Sure its nice not to use any oils/gas and its cleaner but still too new to know what maintinence costs- battery hold up in 10 yrs will be- electric motor issues dow the road? Computer rf possible side effects? I mean its already coming out that cell phones and cell towers pose threats to humans at certqain exposure levels.

Ev reliability is still uncharted territory

This makes for an interesting data point since Chevrolet has been making ICE vehicles for 106 years....
EV simplicity wins: Consumer Reports names new Bolt most reliable car in Chevy’s line
 
Thanks for posting.
I also guessed wrong and was surprised by the results when I dumped the data into a spreadsheet last week. It also didn't help to optimize the panel angle -- that just wrecked havoc with earlier in the day collection. That said, a SW orientation at 45 degrees might be worthwhile. Time shifting so that PV covers 2pm to 5pm is a big chunk of the a/c load.

Yes, you must study your hourly power curve of both utility power and EV power for your specific location and tariffs. It's not always intuitive. In my case (business) I found my peak often happened at 7-8:30 am, so the array was aimed at the SE, but at a low angle to generate the most power in the summer.

For residences, the newer 12-8pm OnPeak TOU windows can sometimes make a SW or even WSW(?) reduce the OnPeak kWh's the most.
 
I really do still want a model 3 but it's looking like I will be paying way to much to purchase and operate one.

Electric cars areso much cooler than gas cars for so many reasons. But it appears our city does not want people to go electric. I guess we have the highest energy cost in the nation.

http://publicpower.com/pdf/rates/jea/2017/jea_res_survey_jan_2017.pdf

I am currently hitting Tier 2 power and my bill this month is going to be about $170 + $250 for my solar loan and I don't even have an electric car yet. I'm really having to take a closer look at what a model 3 will cost me and it's not looking good at all at the moment. In the winter my solar does not make nearly as much power as the summer, but in the summer I also have to pay for air conditioning and have higher energy costs (.47 cents per kWh instead of .40 is what it would be to charge the tesla).

My estimated daily commute will be roughly 21kWh of charging accounting for some loss if I run AC, drive fast etc. (rough estimate it might be more). at $.435 per kWh this will be about $9 a day. Not terrible but not great either. Gas @ $3.50 in a car that can get 40 mpg (maybe not even a hybrid) would be only $7 so thats around an extra $60 a month to operate a model 3 over an ICE.

SDGE does not seem to provide a chart that show what time of day I am using power, but I can guess that 80-90% of it would be durring peak and

The Car's power usage would be roughly 630kWh a month which is close to what our home uses for power. So whether we switch to TOU or not I do not think it will matter much as the house will just cost "that much more" to operate in the daytime. Home is currently using about 750 kWh this month and we beat last years usage for January by about 20-30%. Probably due to not having to run the furnace as it has been a warm or even hot January (we hit 93 the other day).

So will it be worth the extra $720 per year in fuel to operate a model 3?

Now if I switch to TOU + EV I will certainly save some money maybe even 1/2 of what I am currently charged. This is very hard to calculate with the information SDG&E provides though.

Here is my Savings SDG&E estimates if I switch to TOU currently (non TOU-EV plans viewable).
TOU by glamisduner, on Flickr
 
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You can supercharge for .20/kWh
Building a new one off Camino del Norte
Behind target.
True but will that really save me any money, I mean I do value my time especially since I already commute for 2 hours of my life a day?

Well, it certainly would if I stay with the tiered plan! But not as much if I switch to TOU (TOU_EV would give me cheaper charging and only raise my electric bill a little for the rest of my usage)

But this will be MUCH less convenient than a gas car as it will really cut into my time. That's like what an hour of my time per day on average (Probably fill up every other day but it would also take over an hour)
 
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My estimated daily commute will be roughly 21kWh of charging accounting for some loss if I run AC, drive fast etc. (rough estimate it might be more). at $.435 per kWh this will be about $9 a day. Not terrible but not great either. Gas @ $3.50 in a car that can get 40 mpg (maybe not even a hybrid) would be only $7 so thats around an extra $60 a month to operate a model 3 over an ICE.

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First financially: A low mile used econobox is the best decision. Fuel mileage really doesn't come into play. You can buy a lot of gas for $15,000, not to mention insurance savings.

But assuming you don't want a used econobox, that in fact you want an attractive car with good performance and the ability to drive semi-autonomously, things change a lot.

Note that to get 40 mpg in car the size of the Model 3, with similar performance, you currently have no options. The closest options all run Premium, and many are priced higher.

You are about to see the price of 87 octane climb close to an effective $4 in SD because summer gas blends for California cost more to produce yet yield less MPG.

To get 40 mpg measured by map miles, and fuel receipts in California is normally going require about 50mpg combined EPA for most brands. Why? Those 2-10 mile round trips. The warmup period. The optimizations most MFRs use to get their EPA cycles. California Oxygenated Fuel. Gas pumps metering on the tight end of the tolerance.

BTW - is it really .43/kWh from midnight to 6am? Wow...
 
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My estimated daily commute will be roughly 21kWh of charging accounting for some loss if I run AC, drive fast etc. (rough estimate it might be more). at $.435 per kWh this will be about $9 a day. Not terrible but not great either. Gas @ $3.50 in a car that can get 40 mpg (maybe not even a hybrid) would be only $7 so thats around an extra $60 a month to operate a model 3 over an ICE.
The key is to compare it to a car of comparable performance like the BMW 340i, it only gets 25mpg :)
The Model 3 is going to be a huge improvement over my 20mpg turbocharged Subaru.
 
Yes I wanted the Model 3 to get performance, comfort and efficiency. And well it's just cool and exciting. But that does not change the fact I need to be realistic with operation cost. Some turbo diesels are able to get 40mpg average without having batteries (I don't really want a battery AND and engine, one or the other is best but looking at costs battery and engine would probably make more sense).

but year 40 MPG isn't going to get me the performance. What I really need on my long commute is comfort. I don't I will be able to drive the model 3 in the fast lane anyways or the efficiency goes WAY WAY down. My Dad's Mercedes E250 is quite comfortable to drive on long commutes, and averages about 40 mpg while I borrowed it. But I don't want Mercedes repair expenses heh.

I would deal with my Ford Focus I have now, but its a lemon which is why I need a new car. Ford is buying it back from me this month. Going to have to commute in a full size truck until M3 is available which also sucks. Very $$$$ to drive 80 miles a day getting 15-16mpg