Sub 3 seconds for Model 3 DL

[JohnSnowNW]

No way. The M≡ will be cheaper than that. Efficiency and a fully automated assembly process will care for that. Unlike the MS and MX, the M≡ production will be totally automated. Even more importantly - Tesla won't be buying batteries for it - they will be making them about 120 miles away.

The $35k price is taking all of those reductions into account, and the $72k price tag is simply keeping the profit-margin similar. While Tesla will have lower margins on the base and mid-level M3's, they're going to maximize profit on the top-tier model. It should be noted that the $72k model represents the 2.5 second 0-60 model (if it's possible).

 

[Jayc]

Why do you think the P100DL has shaved 0.3 seconds off the P90DL time?

2.8s (0-60 P90DL) - 2.5s (0-60 P100DL) = 0.3 seconds

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

2.8s (0-60 P90DL) - 2.5s (0-60 P100DL) = 0.3 seconds

It's worth noting that, unlike most manufacturers, Tesla understates their times. Brooks at DragTimes managed a 2.65s time in the P90DL. So the tested time for the P100DL might be 2.4s

 

[shokunin]

It's worth noting that, unlike most manufacturers, Tesla understates their times. Brooks at DragTimes managed a 2.65s time in the P90DL. So the tested time for the P100DL might be 2.4s

That's a broad brush on "understates" their times. While it has been true for 0-60, it has not been true for the quarter mile advertisements of P90D 10.9 on Ludicrous models. The 0-60 times are also misleading as only the Performance models use 1 foot rollout on 0-60 while all the other (90/75/70/60) models do not. So the 0-60 you need add an rough estimate of .3 seconds to compare it to the other non-performance models.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

That's a broad brush on "understates" their times. While it has been true for 0-60, it has not been true for the quarter mile advertisements of P90D 10.9 on Ludicrous models. The 0-60 times are also misleading as only the Performance models use 1 foot rollout on 0-60 while all the other (90/75/70/60) models do not. So the 0-60 you need add an rough estimate of .3 seconds to compare it to the other non-performance models.

Tesla do not state quarter mile times on their website

 

[shokunin]

the P90DL was only ever putting out a little less than 500 kW (the newer models a little more than 500kW the older ones were around 450kW) but the system should theoretically be capable of 600 kW.

That or it's no longer a 400V battery or they're pushing more current (more than 1500A) through the inconel contactor. If more current is allowed then it's possible to go even quicker.

Under load the voltage will sag far below 400v. The more recent P90Dv3 packs seems to have less voltage sag as well as increased current past 1500A.

 

[shokunin]

Tesla do not state quarter mile times on their website

They used to until the P100D announcement. They state 10.9 in quarter mile for Ludicrous option and 20% faster to 155mph than regular performance.

There are many threads on the inability to hit that metric, only recently has someone been able to achieve 10's in the quarter mile with latest revision to the 90kw pack. Many have tried and failed.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

They used to until the P100D announcement. They state 10.9 in quarter mile for Ludicrous option and 20% faster to 155mph than regular performance.

There are many threads on the inability to hit that metric, only recently has someone been able to achieve 10's in the quarter mile with latest revision to the 90kw pack. Many have tried and failed.

Ok. I'm just focussing on 0-60, which was understated on the P85DI & the P90DL
Hence why the 2.5s for the P100DL might be understated also

 

[ohmman]

I will be disappointed if the acceleration in the Model 3 doesn't approach that of the best trimmed Model S. Disappointed for myself personally, not disappointed in the product. Since our X will be our road tripper, I'm looking for something smaller, fast and sporty. If the S is crushing it on acceleration, I may find myself getting another S instead of the 3.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I'm not sure what you mean.
Do you mean that it could be a 100kW battery with the 2170 cells?

I don't think I need to say anything except - ABSOLUTELY.

 

[mhan00]

This is amazing to me.

A car like the M3 isn't even out yet....and its causing the competition tons of issues.

Buyers turn to Tesla Model 3 after Nissan shuts down massive LEAF group buy effort with 3,700 people

Ummmmm, how is this a case of the III causing Nissan issues? The III is basically unrelated to the case. Some of the potential buyers saying they'd wait for the III after Nissan rejected their bid for a huge discount on the Leaf hardly constitutes the III causing Nissan issues.

 

[tashtibet]

speed/fastness isn't a deal for me -all I want is overall spec/performance of the car-SPEED THRILLS BUT KILLS

 

[JeffK]

speed/fastness isn't a deal for me -all I want is overall spec/performance of the car-SPEED THRILLS BUT KILLS

A percentage of the market will also be about bragging rights vs practicality. See nearly every sports car, super car, luxury car etc.

That said, it's also about showing what EVs are capable of instead of being overpriced, underpowered, econoboxes.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Ummmmm, how is this a case of the III causing Nissan issues? The III is basically unrelated to the case. Some of the potential buyers saying they'd wait for the III after Nissan rejected their bid for a huge discount on the Leaf hardly constitutes the III causing Nissan issues.

If you feel comfortable thinking that the ≡ isn't causing Nissan Issues then go with that. I'm going to stick with what I believe. Please put a stickpin in this discussion. I want to review it in 18 months.

 

[Red Sage]

So now the question to me is, with the Model 3 PxxD Ludicrous be quicker than the Model S PxxxD Ludicrous?

Yes.

One might assume it would be since the 3 will be lighter, but Tesla could software limit the output to keep it slower.

Why? Remember, the Tesla Generation III vehicles are meant to compete with BMW 3-Series cars. The quickest one of those is the M3, and it pummels every other BMW car they offer. Yes, including the flagship 7-Series vehicles. All of them, including the Alpina variants. That strategy seems to have worked fine for them.

The Tesla Roadster has been surpassed by both the Tesla Model S and Model X multiple times when it comes to quickness. Are those Roadster owners truly PO'd by that circumstance? I think it is much more likely they are proud of the progress Tesla Motors has made, and also feel vindicated as well for their choice of going fully electric. It would take a rather short sighted individual to be somehow angry that a car they own that blows the doors, socks, and wigs off every competitor in class is less capable than a newer design, even if it cost less.

 

[Red Sage]

speed/fastness isn't a deal for me -all I want is overall spec/performance of the car-SPEED THRILLS BUT KILLS

[BOLSHEVIK]. Speed never killed anyone in the entire history of like, EVER, and stuff. Rapid deceleration trauma is what kills people. Ask any coroner, forensic medical examiner, or first responder. In other news: Trees don't move.

 

[Red Sage]

There is absolutely no reason to software limit the M3 to have less performance than the Model S. The performance version of the Model 3 will undoubtedly have similar enough profit margins to the Model S that the volume of sales should more than make up for a drop in MSPDL sales.

Correct. Sales of the Tesla Model ☰ P100D alone will be higher than those of all the Model S sales combined regardless of trim level. Tesla Motors won't lose a dime. Especially since the Model S is busily eating the breakfast, lunch, and dinner of AUDI A8 L, BMW 7-Series, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, and Porsche Panamera.

 

[Red Sage]

There is a limit to the size of the battery pack in the Model 3, both on a weight basis and on a volumetric basis. As a result, I'm expecting the base battery pack to be around 50-55 kWh, and the bigger pack to be around 70 kWh.

Right now, Ludicrous mode allows a discharge c-rate around 5.6C. Assuming that the increase in specific energy expected with a battery chemistry change in the Model 3 doesn't negatively affect the discharge c-rate (not necessarily a safe assumption), then we're looking at 5.6 * 70 = 392 kW, or 525 hp. But the battery pack likely weighs in at 390 kg, making the total weight of the car around 4,200 pounds. A P90D+L and P100D+L are around 5,000 pounds, so that's a lot of weight shaved off.

I can definitely see under 3 seconds if these parameters hold. Maybe 2.8 or 2.9?'

Note that for c-rate discharge, I would use the entire pack's capacity, but for range calculation, one has to factor in the anti-bricking buffer of about 5%.

Note... thinking about it more, I'm thinking the upper end is more likely 65 kWh, or 488 hp, and getting about 2.9 or 3.

I am gonna make sure not to place you on the [IGNORED] list, just so I can be there to behold your stammerings when you learn how incredibly incorrect your pessimistic musings have been. You simply do not appreciate the magnitude of what Elon Musk intends to bring forth upon the automotive industry.

 

[Alketi]

I am gonna make sure not to place you on the [IGNORED] list, just so I can be there to behold your stammerings when you learn how incredibly incorrect your pessimistic musings have been. You simply do not appreciate the magnitude of what Elon Musk intends to bring forth upon the automotive industry.

Someone gives a reasoned prediction on battery sizes and acceleration and are threatened with ignore and told they're stammering? What is happening?

 

[Red Sage]

I have always thought that the Model S will be faster. I do not know how many people will pay $110k+ for a 3P100DL. In the big picture of things very few P100DL's will be sold.

As long as the Tesla Model S P100D manages to sell at a rate more than those who will buy a Porsche Panamera Turbo S ($180,300), Alpina B7 ($137,955), or AMG S63 ($144,175) I'm good. And no, the Tesla Model ☰ P100D is highly unlikely to cost anywhere near $110,000. It will handily dismiss and embarrass vehicles that cost that much that don't bear a Tesla emblem, of course... But it will cost a whole lot less money than its most direct competitors. The Performance edition of the Model ☰ will be priced as a bargain compared to other cars in class, such as BMW M3 ($64,000), BMW M4 ($66,200), Cadillac ATS-V ($60,695), Mercedes-AMG C63 S ($73,250). And likely right in line with AUDI S4 ($49,200), Jaguar XE S ($48,100), Lexus IS 350 F-Sport AWD ($45,750), and Infiniti Q50 3.0ti Red Sport ($47,950).