sudden acceleration

[AnxietyRanger]

One witness behind me told the policeman "something just not right", the speed was constant ...., like you were on raceway"

Here is a theory:

If you turned the cruise control stalk upwards instead of hitting the blinker upwards to turn right (or if your foot pushed it etc.), it would have engaged cruise on current speed. A constant speed!

If you did this while your foot was away from the gas pedal and the car was decelerating, it could still have resulted in a steady and higher than normal speed (whatever speed your car had when the stalk would have been moved) coming out of the turn... while your expectation was the car slowing down because gas pedal is not pressed.

A witness saying the speed was constant would indeed suggest that at some point entering the corner, cruise control was enabled at the current speed, thus maintaining a constant speed through the corner, while your brain was expecting the car to slow down since no pedal was being pressed...

I've said it before, the confusing Tesla cruise control setup is, well, confusing. Setting cruise the same way you flick a stalk (either up or down and even pulling does different things depending on situation) for blinkers could be the reason why there are reports of this issue happening especially when turning a corner...

You said your style is to not brake or accelerate into corner, so it sounds like you were not pressing any pedals. If cruise got enabled at any speed in that scenario, you would not have been prepared for it, since your expectation was that the car would automatically slow down coming out of the corner. Lacking data, this is speculation of course, but I could see this scenario happening. There have been others on TMC reporting similar incidents.

For example Audi requires you to press a button at the end of the stalk to set the cruise speed, which is IMO a lot better setup and much less confusing.

 

[BinWing]

Here is a theory:

If you turned the cruise control stalk upwards instead of hitting the blinker upwards to turn right (or if your foot pushed it etc.), it would have engaged cruise on current speed. A constant speed!

If you did this while your foot was away from the gas pedal and the car was decelerating, it could still have resulted in a steady and higher than normal speed (whatever speed your car had when the stalk would have been moved) coming out of the turn... while your expectation was the car slowing down because gas pedal is not pressed.

A witness saying the speed was constant would indeed suggest that at some point entering the corner, cruise control was enabled at the current speed, thus maintaining a constant speed through the corner, while your brain was expecting the car to slow down since no pedal was being pressed...

I've said it before, the confusing Tesla cruise control setup is, well, confusing. Setting cruise the same way you flick a stalk (either up or down and even pulling does different things depending on situation) for blinkers could be the reason why there are reports of this issue happening especially when turning a corner...

You said your style is to not brake or accelerate into corner, so it sounds like you were not pressing any pedals. If cruise got enabled at any speed in that scenario, you would not have been prepared for it, since your expectation was that the car would automatically slow down coming out of the corner. Lacking data, this is speculation of course, but I could see this scenario happening. There have been others on TMC reporting similar incidents.

For example Audi requires you to press a button at the end of the stalk to set the cruise speed, which is IMO a lot better setup and much less confusing.

 

[BinWing]

Thank you so much for your analysis, AnxietyRanger. This is is the picture I have been going back and forth since the accident. Yes, I have P90D signature model.

I have had Honda, Nissan, VW, Volvo, BMW, all equipped with cruise control. I never used the feature, but none of these cars accidentally turned it on. I am very nervous about the scenario the car acts against my wills.

 

[alcibiades]

Thank you so much for your analysis, AnxietyRanger. This is is the picture I have been going back and forth since the accident. Yes, I have P90D signature model.

I have had Honda, Nissan, VW, Volvo, BMW, all equipped with cruise control. I never used the feature, but none of these cars accidentally turned it on. I am very nervous about the scenario the car acts against my wills.

Not to pick a nit, but no car knows your will.

That you never accidentally turned on CC in your other cars has nothing to do with whether you accidentally turned it on in your Tesla. Perhaps (probably!) as @AnxietyRanger says, this reflects a flaw in Tesla's design. But that doesn't mean the car had independent agency and activated CC against your will.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Thank you so much for your analysis, AnxietyRanger. This is is the picture I have been going back and forth since the accident. Yes, I have P90D signature model.

I have had Honda, Nissan, VW, Volvo, BMW, all equipped with cruise control. I never used the feature, but none of these cars accidentally turned it on. I am very nervous about the scenario the car acts against my wills.

Thanks!

I wonder if any of those cars activated cruise by pushing the cruise lever up or down? If not, then your Tesla would be your first car that does this.

After all, I have never heard of cruise control activating by accident before joining this forum, but here I have been hearing of Tesla users activate cruise by mistake in corners... probably because the lever movement is the same as with blinkers...

And I still, after three years, can't make heads or tails about how the cruise in Tesla operates. I operate it based on sheer luck personally. It does what it does, whenever it does.

 

[vandacca]

Is this also an issue with Mercedes? It's a Mercedes stock stalk, and it works the same (as far as I remember) in most Mercedes I've seen.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Is this also an issue with Mercedes? It's a Mercedes stock stalk, and it works the same (as far as I remember) in most Mercedes I've seen.

Yes, Mercedes is the same. I've never felt it to be quite as confusing, so Tesla seems to add some layer of software ambiguity on top. But I've never liked the Merc way either.

Enabling and setting a speed by pushing up or down is very confusing. Why two directions for a set operation? The Audi style of having a set button is much more intuitive. That way accidental flicks up or down don't do too much.

 

[BinWing]

Thanks!

I wonder if any of those cars activated cruise by pushing the cruise lever up or down? If not, then your Tesla would be your first car that does this.

After all, I have never heard of cruise control activating by accident before joining this forum, but here I have been hearing of Tesla users activate cruise by mistake in corners... probably because the lever movement is the same as with blinkers...

And I still, after three years, can't make heads or tails about how the cruise in Tesla operates. I operate it based on sheer luck personally. It does what it does, whenever it does.

My other cars either have buttons to move CC on and off, or two steps to get it activated. Nothing like sharing the same space for blinker in one click.....

 

[Yinn]

Thank you so much for your analysis, AnxietyRanger. This is is the picture I have been going back and forth since the accident. Yes, I have P90D signature model.

I have had Honda, Nissan, VW, Volvo, BMW, all equipped with cruise control. I never used the feature, but none of these cars accidentally turned it on. I am very nervous about the scenario the car acts against my wills.

I too have had many of those cars. I have never engaged CC accidentally until I owned a Tesla. It's worse in early Model S vehicles when the CC stalk was higher up. While it required an engage to be pushed in, I regularly confuse that with the blinker.

I prefer to newer cars being lower on the column, but I haven't had any accidental engagements ever since I became aware of how the stalk works.

 

[PedanticOne]

I had always wondered why they didn't have an on/off button like other cars, but assumed it was because the cruise is adaptive, and therefore 'safer' since it will avoid running into cars in front of you. But it could definitely freak a person out when it happens unexpectedly, and in this case it did hit other cars, but it sounds like it hit them obliquely.

But this is all theory I guess until we know what the logs report.

 

[vandacca]

Not sure if this can help anyone, but when driving a Tesla with both hands on the wheel, you should be able to easily reach the blinker with your finger (while keeping both hands on the wheel).

The CC stalk on the other hand would require you to remove your left hand from the wheel to reach it.

If you can get into the habit of turning your blinker on with your left hand still on the wheel, you shouldn't mistake the two stalks.

 

[BinWing]

Not sure if this can help anyone, but when driving a Tesla with both hands on the wheel, you should be able to easily reach the blinker with your finger (while keeping both hands on the wheel).

The CC stalk on the other hand would require you to remove your left hand from the wheel to reach it.

If you can get into the habit of turning your blinker on with your left hand still on the wheel, you shouldn't mistake the two stalks.

That is why I don't understand how I activated CC, I always have my hands on the wheel, especially left hand. I also regularly drive a car with a manual shift.

Here are my frustrations: I called Tesla Palo Alto service team right on the crash site (a few thousands feet down the road) with vin number, then later after the car gone to the tow yard. I formally requested to look through the log report, as the person said "there is not much you can learn". I gave all my contact info each time. I never heard back. Three days later, I called back and left voice mail, and called Fremont service center. Still, four days later, tesla has not responded to my request to go through the log data. And no one called me back.

I hope some of you may shed the light on what I can do.

 

[BinWing]

Sterling Anderson, the self driving lead, was at the crash site (which is on his new company site). He seemed well aware of the sudden acceleration issue in the early model. He also believed sensor log report should gave valuable data.

 

[cgiGuy]

Sterling Anderson, the self driving lead, was at the crash site (which is on his new company site). He seemed well aware of the sudden acceleration issue in the early model. He also believed sensor log report should gave valuable data.

Ok.. when did this boat take a turn towards Fantasy Island? You're saying the guy who used to work on Tesla's AP system, but then left and started poaching people from Tesla for his own company, and was then sued by Tesla.. that guy was there and said something bad about Tesla's autopilot?

 

[BinWing]

The lawsuit case no wrong doing on his part. I wouldn't use "poaching" without supporting evidences.
I do think Anderson has more extensive technical background on MX than some of us.

On the other notes, I just called Tesla again about the data log since no one responded my repeated request in the last 5 days. The Fremont service supervisor immediately recognize me. But she said Tesla can't release the data to me. It seems like the end of the road to figure out what was happening through some objective data.

 

[EinSV]

Ok.. when did this boat take a turn towards Fantasy Island? You're saying the guy who used to work on Tesla's AP system, but then left and started poaching people from Tesla for his own company, and was then sued by Tesla.. that guy was there and said something bad about Tesla's autopilot?

Oops. Teachable moment here: When you are spreading FUD it helps to do at least 10 minutes of homework first.

I am still trying to process what happened an hour ago... but I wanted to share this incredible accident today around lunch time

While I was making a right turn from a local main road to a small road, not breaking or accelerating much as I always do, all of sudden, my MX accelerated on its own in a lot of power, like when I deliberately make an acceleration as I clearly felt the sensation on my seat. Before I could reacted to the situation, I already hit two parked cars.

I was not on autopilot
One witness behind me told the policeman "something just not right", the speed was constant ...., like you were on raceway"... He came back to make the point after he left and almost got home ..

I never used autopilot because I didn't like the driving feeling when I initially tried. I had this sudden acceleration at least one time this year (February?) on a state highway. I told my husband who was the passenger then. That only lasted seconds and no cars in front of me.

I am not sure this ever happened to anyone, but I am now so scared and the car is totally wrecked.....

 

[cgiGuy]

Oops. Teachable moment here: When you are spreading FUD it helps to do at least 10 minutes of homework first.

While I appreciate your effort to edumacate me, technically AP was used if the TACC was inadvertently engaged.

And how exactly was I spreading FUD? You gotta admit the introduction of Sterling Anderson into all of this (as a witness--on his company's property?) days after the thread started is a little suspect.

 

[EinSV]

While I appreciate your effort to edumacate me, technically AP was used if the TACC was inadvertently engaged.

And how exactly was I spreading FUD? You gotta admit the introduction of Sterling Anderson into all of this (as a witness--on his company's property?) days after the thread started is a little suspect.

The supposed introduction of Sterling Anderson onto the scene is more than a little suspect. It is sheer Fantasy Island material as you suggested. I agree with your post, which is why I quoted it -- the FUD comment was in no way directed at you!

 

[cgiGuy]

The supposed introduction of Sterling Anderson onto the scene is more than a little suspect. It is sheer Fantasy Island material as you suggested. I agree with your post, which is why I quoted it -- the FUD comment was in no way directed at you!

Gotcha.. sorry, I misinterpreted the quote order.

 

[vandacca]

The lawsuit case no wrong doing on his part. I wouldn't use "poaching" without supporting evidences.
I do think Anderson has more extensive technical background on MX than some of us.

On the other notes, I just called Tesla again about the data log since no one responded my repeated request in the last 5 days. The Fremont service supervisor immediately recognize me. But she said Tesla can't release the data to me. It seems like the end of the road to figure out what was happening through some objective data.

What if you don't ask for the raw data, but just a summary or report of what happened?