sudden acceleration

[BinWing]

Not true. At the end of your owners manual there is a section about data collection. It states something to the effect that if you request the logs for a repair not related to warranty (i.e. a crash) they will release the data.

You may need it for your insurance anyway if it was an actual malfunction.

Thank you! I found it on p180, clearly stated....
Yes, that is Geico wanted me to pass along. But I have spent 5 days and many phone calls to Tesla asking for the access.

Here is reply finally came from Fremont today:
"I have requested to have your vehicle data logs reviewed at this point and have them escalated to the appropriate department. Unfortunately I am not able to release any vehicle data to you or your insurance company at this time. If you require additional information, please feel free to contact me directly. Thank you."

 

[bonnie]

Sterling Anderson, the self driving lead, was at the crash site (which is on his new company site). He seemed well aware of the sudden acceleration issue in the early model. He also believed sensor log report should gave valuable data.

Ok.. when did this boat take a turn towards Fantasy Island? You're saying the guy who used to work on Tesla's AP system, but then left and started poaching people from Tesla for his own company, and was then sued by Tesla.. that guy was there and said something bad about Tesla's autopilot?

The supposed introduction of Sterling Anderson onto the scene is more than a little suspect. It is sheer Fantasy Island material as you suggested. I agree with your post, which is why I quoted it -- the FUD comment was in no way directed at you!

FWIW, Sterling Anderson appearing - and not only appearing but saying those things - seemed a bit too thick for me too. I guess anything is possible, but yeah, I wouldn't buy that part outright.

Amazing coincidence, but yes, Sterling was there. I found that an impossible coincidence, too, and I was wrong. (I am sure of this because I asked him.) However, the interpretation of what he said to the OP appears likely to be a misunderstanding on the OP's part during an understandably stressful event.

The OP's assertion that Sterling was aware of sudden acceleration events in early models is incorrect.

He explained to the OP that pedals are monitored by redundant sensors. Data is crystal clear on every case he's reviewed. Actuators cannot move the accelerator pedal; if it moves (as confirmed by both sensors), something external (i.e., foot pressing down) caused it to move. Not Autopilot.

tl:dr: In all cases of claimed unintended acceleration that he reviewed, the accelerator was pressed when the brake was meant to be pressed.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Fair enough @bonnie. Sometimes reality is stranger than fiction. And I agree, that story makes more sense with your correction to what he actually said.

As for this incident, I am pretty convinced it was cruise control being enabled by mistake. I especially watched my own hands travelling around the steering wheel today whenever I was turning right and certainly my hands passed the cruise control stalk many times when performing the right-hand turn. If I were in the habit of turning the blinkers on only after/during I've started turning right, so simultaneous to turning the wheel, my moving hands might well mistake the cruise control stalk as the blinker stalk and push it upwards instead... which would enable cruise at current speed and stop any regenerative braking slowdown that might otherwise have been going on.

This mistake seems somewhat more likely to happen when turning right, than when turning left, because when turning right and hands start grabbing the wheel from lower left, the cruise control stalk is the "first stalk" of the two (unlike when turning left).

I think this might be an area where Tesla could consider usability improvements to the cruise control.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I hope you are actually old enough to post here, I don't understand your state of mind. Making fun of people when they ask for your insight and support from the unfortunate situation is not funny.

The witness who came back was a senior citizen who was driving behind me. It is important we face facts. Inventing claims without evidences only works for certain individual.

I dislike such spiteful posts as much as you do, @BinWing, but the Sterling story was a bit hard to take even for the more well-meaning of us. We're only human. And these guys here know I myself buy almost everything tentatively that gets posted here , but that was a hard pill for even me to swallow... I guess that is saying something. Anyway, my apologies for finding it hard to believe.

Sometimes reality indeed is stranger than fiction. In a movie that scene would have been cut out as too implausible - except in a telenovela.

 

[EinSV]

Amazing coincidence, but yes, Sterling was there. I found that an impossible coincidence, too, and I was wrong. (I am sure of this because I asked him.) However, the interpretation of what he said to the OP appears likely to be a misunderstanding on the OP's part during an understandably stressful event.

The OP's assertion that Sterling was aware of sudden acceleration events in early models is incorrect.

He explained to the OP that pedals are monitored by redundant sensors. Data is crystal clear on every case he's reviewed. Actuators cannot move the accelerator pedal; if it moves (as confirmed by both sensors), something external (i.e., foot pressing down) caused it to move. Not Autopilot.

tl:dr: In all cases of claimed unintended acceleration that he reviewed, the accelerator was pressed when the brake was meant to be pressed.

@bonnie, Thank you for clearing that up! The sudden appearance of Sterling on page 3 of the thread seemed like a bit much but miracles never cease. Apologies to the OP for my earlier comments.

 

[Az_Rael]

Thank you! I found it on p180, clearly stated....
Yes, that is Geico wanted me to pass along. But I have spent 5 days and many phone calls to Tesla asking for the access.

Here is reply finally came from Fremont today:
"I have requested to have your vehicle data logs reviewed at this point and have them escalated to the appropriate department. Unfortunately I am not able to release any vehicle data to you or your insurance company at this time. If you require additional information, please feel free to contact me directly. Thank you."

I would ask them if they will release the data once the analysis is done and what timeline would be expected for that. It sounds like they don't want to release the data before they have reviewed it.

 

[ABC2D]

I hope you are actually old enough to post here, I don't understand your state of mind. Making fun of people when they ask for your insight and support from the unfortunate situation is not funny.

The witness who came back was a senior citizen who was driving behind me. It is important we face facts. Inventing claims without evidences only works for certain individual.

@BinWing, I'm sorry for my comment - I got carried away and agree it was inappropriate, especially with someone being involved in an accident. Sorry, I hope you get your car fixed soon.

 

[ABC2D]

About the logs sharing, doesn't Tesla appear to release log data even when not requested but customer is to blame and withhold the data for other instances.

It sounds like they don't want to release the data before they have reviewed it.

- the question is why. The data isn't going to change after they review it, so it will be the same either way. If there is a policy for sharing, they should release the data when requested

 

[MS16]

Sterling Anderson, the self driving lead, was at the crash site (which is on his new company site). He seemed well aware of the sudden acceleration issue in the early model. He also believed sensor log report should gave valuable data.

Yes, I would expect anyone who has worked for Tesla at that level would be aware of sudden unintended acceleration crashes involving Teslas. They might not know what cause them, but they would certainly be aware.

 

[MS16]

You can turn off cruise control completely. Tap the end of the stalk. With it off you can't engage it by accidentally lifting the stalk.

Are you referring to the legacy Model S stalks?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

You can turn off cruise control completely. Tap the end of the stalk. With it off you can't engage it by accidentally lifting the stalk.

No longer exists.

 

[bonnie]

Yes, I would expect anyone who has worked for Tesla at that level would be aware of sudden unintended acceleration crashes involving Teslas. They might not know what cause them, but they would certainly be aware.

Right. But if you saw my post, above, that isn't what he said. Or rather, it's incomplete. What he said was that all of the sudden acceleration cases that he reviewed were caused by accelerator being pressed.

 

[bonnie]

@bonnie, Thank you for clearing that up! The sudden appearance of Sterling on page 3 of the thread seemed like a bit much but miracles never cease. Apologies to the OP for my earlier comments.

I know! It seemed completely fabricated - imagine my surprise when Sterling confirmed that yep, it happened right near his office. I thought I was going to be posting that he wasn't there. But he was. Just slight difference over what he was purported to have said and what he did say. I chalk that up to a misunderstanding that is understandable after the stress of the event.

 

[BinWing]

About the logs sharing, doesn't Tesla appear to release log data even when not requested but customer is to blame and withhold the data for other instances.
- the question is why. The data isn't going to change after they review it, so it will be the same either way. If there is a policy for sharing, they should release the data when requested

About the logs sharing, doesn't Tesla appear to release log data even when not requested but customer is to blame and withhold the data for other instances.
- the question is why. The data isn't going to change after they review it, so it will be the same either way. If there is a policy for sharing, they should release the data when requested

Certainly feel this way. I would have much better understanding either way if Tesla provided me with any level of debriefing. I wrote to Tesla again last night based on the manual info, but I have not received any responses yet.

After I had my MX delivery, I complained about the trim gaps, the Palo Alto team told me with the high authority, that misalignment/gaps were well within the specs. However, they continue to catch my attention, unlike other new vehicles I had owned before. Anyway, the glue of the body chrome trim failed after 6 months, along with one page list of other minor problems I have to deal with (I never complained to any forum, maybe lack of time or maybe the way I have committed myself). So I took the car to Fremont and mentioned the eye sour gaps. At that time, the team immediately agreed to fix problem (as they were not up to specs).

I am not a picky person, but I believe we all deserve the honest service and evaluation for fixable problems. So far I am not happy with the Tesla interactions: not sure some of staff need better technical training, or customer/culture/ethic training. Admitting problem is the key commitment for product improvement.

I think of my MX as a beta version, or prototype. So it is important for Tesla, and our community, to keep the communication channel open so we can help to improve. The mutual trust is utmost important for information exchange.

I want to express my sincere gratitude to everyone here who offered the insight, expertise, suggestions and even critics (yes, I should change my habit and read the manual seriously) to get me through the very stressful time. I have never had any accident before, not to mention such "yuge" one that cause so much damages to three other drivers.

I really appreciate your time and the forgiveness to my often incoherent text

 

[MS16]

Sterling Anderson, the self driving lead, was at the crash site (which is on his new company site). He seemed well aware of the sudden acceleration issue in the early model. He also believed sensor log report should gave valuable data.

The OP's assertion that Sterling was aware of sudden acceleration events in early models is incorrect.

So then yes, the OP's assertion that Sterling was aware of sudden acceleration events is actually correct, not incorrect.

 

[MS16]

Thank you! I found it on p180, clearly stated....
Yes, that is Geico wanted me to pass along. But I have spent 5 days and many phone calls to Tesla asking for the access.

Here is reply finally came from Fremont today:

"I have requested to have your vehicle data logs reviewed at this point and have them escalated to the appropriate department. Unfortunately I am not able to release any vehicle data to you or your insurance company at this time. If you require additional information, please feel free to contact me directly. Thank you."

Very sorry to see that Tesla is being so slow and uncooperative to your repeated requests. Hopefully they will finally release the information and not just their unsupervised review.

In the meantime, you could consider logging your accident with NHTSA at File a Vehicle Safety Complaint | Safercar.gov | NHTSA

 

[bonnie]

So then yes, the OP's assertion that Sterling was aware of sudden acceleration events is actually correct, not incorrect.

Haha. Yes, but misleading.

We are ALL aware of sudden acceleration assertions. Sterling, included. Seeking Alpha is aware. Everyone. The actual info, however, the part that was important in the conversation was that he had not seen a sudden acceleration event that didn't include the accelerator being pressed. Completely different conclusions re the conversation when you get that last part.

 

[BinWing]

Very sorry to see that Tesla is being so slow and uncooperative to your repeated requests. Hopefully they will finally release the information and not just their unsupervised review.

In the meantime, you could consider logging your accident with NHTSA at File a Vehicle Safety Complaint | Safercar.gov | NHTSA

Thank you so much for the right link! I have been trying to find it, really saved a lot of my time...

 

[pdxrajiv]

Certainly feel this way. I would have much better understanding either way if Tesla provided me with any level of debriefing. I wrote to Tesla again last night based on the manual info, but I have not received any responses yet.
...
I really appreciate your time and the forgiveness to my often incoherent text

I am sympathetic to both you and Tesla.

You were in an accident recently and are probably pretty rattled. I would be nervous about driving for a while. You have also suffered what might be substantial financial setback. You seem to be handling this better than what can be reasonably expected. Your expectation that Tesla should release the logs/data as soon as possible is very reasonable.

But I am also sympathetic to Tesla, both the customer-facing employees as well as the engineers that are being asked to provide an analysis and explanation. The customer-facing staff wants to make the customer happy by complying with reasonable requests. But the engineers are probably telling them to wait until "we understand what is going on". This involves looking at a bunch of data from various sources, collecting all the engineers that understand each source of data and how to interpret it, and having them look at the data collectively. Situation is tough if the data you are looking at does not make sense, at least currently.

Sometimes, premature data release can hurt more than it helps. Part of the problem is to determine what data to release. You have to worry about privacy laws and other competing interests, such as 3rd party companies and contracts between them and Tesla. Partial or wrong set of data can be misinterpreted, willfully or inadvertently, leading to red-herrings that nobody really wants to be chasing.

I am sympathetic because I have been in situations like this where a customer is asking to explain an occurrence that you think "can not happen" but the outcome seem to imply "did happen too". Many times, it took longer than desired to figure out what was happening or had happened.

For all of our collective safety, and Tesla's reputation and viability, I hope we find a satisfactory answer soon.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

You can turn off cruise control completely. Tap the end of the stalk. With it off you can't engage it by accidentally lifting the stalk.

I don't know exactly when they removed it but since at least early 2016, there hasn't been a button on the end of the cruise control stalk.