Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[mjmiron]

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It took you two hours to get 193 miles that is really slow, I SC last week from 10% to 90% took about 50 minutes and my car has the range reduction. I wonder how many other folks have the capping issue but not the charge gate?

Makes me think the batteries that are taking longer to charge have a more serious health condition and possibly higher Li-Plating and that's why its slower. Tesla has got to do something about this who in their right mind is going to want to buy an EV if this is the result? Very sorry that is happening to you,

 

[meomyo]

With the frustration I'm see if my car had this issue personally I would keep it charged to 100% all the time until the battery had a failure. If the firmware is truly trying to protect an issue in the battery then trying to baby it won't help your cause, it will only limp it until the warranty runs out. It has a weak link somewhere in the pack just need to find it, break it and then you might get a new pack out of it or at least a repair.

But wont tesla claim your left your battery charged to 100% always and you were"told" not to do thaT?

 

[meomyo]

It took you two hours to get 193 miles that is really slow, I SC last week from 10% to 90% took about 50 minutes and my car has the range reduction. I wonder how many other folks have the capping issue but not the charge gate?

Makes me think the batteries that are taking longer to charge have a more serious health condition and possibly higher Li-Plating and that's why its slower. Tesla has got to do something about this who in their right mind is going to want to buy an EV if this is the result? Very sorry that is happening to you,

SO THERE ARE 2 ISSUES?

1) chargegate??
2) capping?
can someone briefly explain these 2.
I am traveling from denver to milw...am in milw now and when i go oak creek SC its so slow for me. i was down to 30 miles when i got there and charged to 200 miles and it took an hour.5


we have free supercharging..maybe they are throttling those with free?

 

[meomyo]

I must say, your post is very entertaining.

First you say another poster's claim is "based on conjecture and inference". You then counter it by your own claim which you admit is also based on conjecture and inference.

Then you say:

"My point is now accepted, claims should either be backed up, or labelled as "I suspect" or other qualifications."

You accept your own point? You are not debating with yourself, are you? Since no one has accepted your point!

I however agree with you that YOUR "claims should either be backed up, or labelled as "I suspect" or other qualifications."

Like tesla would even admit it.

 

[meomyo]

This is exactly the issue.
Seemingly heathly batteries are being artificially capped and usable power is no longer available.

The only logical explanation is that they detected some defect that makes it dangerous to continue to charge to 4.2 volts.

makes sense

 

[mjmiron]

SO THERE ARE 2 ISSUES?

1) chargegate??
2) capping?
can someone briefly explain these 2.
I am traveling from denver to milw...am in milw now and when i go oak creek SC its so slow for me. i was down to 30 miles when i got there and charged to 200 miles and it took an hour.5


we have free supercharging..maybe they are throttling those with free?

Capping is the limitation Tesla put on older batteries to limit them to only charging to 90% with a range loss typically of 30 miles. Most saw this with the update in June and it happened overnight. I used to get 234 miles @ 90% then went to 211 not I am back up to 221.

Chargegate is what DJRass explained that Tesla slowed down the time it takes to charge your battery at Super Chargers.

You are about the same charge time as me about 1 hour to charge from 10% to 90%.

 

[meomyo]

with the latest iphone 7+ update my battery drains way way faster then before the update. Also with pc/phones ect with rechargible batteries it seems everyone gets diff stats.I mean no one uses it exactly the same of course but some poeple get better performance then others in general.Could tesla batteries be the same way? There will be some lemons and duds x%- But of course if the x% is high for some reason good luck trying to get tesla to admit it and do anything about it...Unless its extreme of course.

 

[meomyo]

Capping is the limitation Tesla put on older batteries to limit them to only charging to 90% with a range loss typically of 30 miles. Most saw this with the update in June and it happened overnight. I used to get 234 miles @ 90% then went to 211 not I am back up to 221.

Chargegate is what DJRass explained that Tesla slowed down the time it takes to charge your battery at Super Chargers.

You are about the same charge time as me about 1 hour to charge from 10% to 90%.

thanx for the info. It seems too long to me. i only charge till the kw start to go under 40 as my time is worth more then to sit there for another hour for the extra 20-30 miles: thats what sucks even though the screens will say 30 minutes to full charge..lol...its never correct.

 

[SmartElectric]

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Sure, if you want to charge to well into the mid-90's, then here are a few examples from my Fleet Carma charging log:

Date, Duration, kWh added, Start SOC (%), End SOC (%)
August 11 2019 , 01:40:38, 59.99, 19, 95
July 09 2017, 01:03:15, 40.53, 49, 97
February 23 2019, 02:01:48, 42, 44, 99
March 11 2019, 01:13:05, 11.66, 83, 99
July 19 2017, 01:13:57, 71.14, 8, 90
June 06 2019, 01:00:49, 58.01, 10, 84

TLDR
1h40m to charge from 19% to 95%
1h to charge from 49% to 97%
2h for 44% to 99%
1h13m 83->99
1h14m session 8-90% is the most kWh we've ever added to a car, 71 kWh, an average of an astounding 60 kW over this session, the absolute best I've ever seen in the logs, and that's a 2017 session, whereas a 2019 session was 58 kW average from 10-84%, so almost tied, two years apart, very different software, different conditions, but consistent throughput.


So, your "capped" car and my ("A" pack) charge about the same. Mine has always been like this, right from factory.

 

[SmartElectric]

Compare that with older charge sessions. You likely would have seen 30kW @ 90%

I have hundreds of "level 3" (what the Fleet Carma device logs as supercharging) sessions, when my "A" pack 2013 S85 gets anywhere near above 90%, the rates are 10 kW or lower.
Posted some sample summary logs above.

 

[DJRas]

DJRas, only getting 197amps max is about 100 amps off a normal pack, that's pretty bad.

Thanks for noticing!
That is the effect of "Charge-gate"

 

[DJRas]

It took you two hours to get 193 miles that is really slow, I SC last week from 10% to 90% took about 50 minutes and my car has the range reduction. I wonder how many other folks have the capping issue but not the charge gate?

Makes me think the batteries that are taking longer to charge have a more serious health condition and possibly higher Li-Plating and that's why its slower. Tesla has got to do something about this who in their right mind is going to want to buy an EV if this is the result? Very sorry that is happening to you,

That was 2 hours and 31 minutes.
It "only" took one hour to get to 90%!

 

[DJRas]

Sure, if you want to charge to well into the mid-90's, then here are a few examples from my Fleet Carma charging log:

Date, Duration, kWh added, Start SOC (%), End SOC (%)
August 11 2019 , 01:40:38, 59.99, 19, 95
July 09 2017, 01:03:15, 40.53, 49, 97
February 23 2019, 02:01:48, 42, 44, 99
March 11 2019, 01:13:05, 11.66, 83, 99

TLDR
1h:40m to charge from 19% to 95%
1h to charge from 49% to 97%
2h for 44% to 99%
1h+ 83->99 (edit - added this just now, exemplar of supercharging to high states of charge)

So, your "capped" car and my ("A" pack) charge about the same. Mine has always been like this, right from factory.

I used to be able to charge to 100% in about an hour from 30% (my new 15%).
This completely does not make sense now that my 100% is my old 87%.
It SHOULD be able to charge with 30 amps right up to the top since there is ZERO risk of exceeding 4.2 volts.

 

[Evoforce]

I used to be able to charge to 100% in about an hour from 30% (my new 15%).
This completely does not make sense now that my 100% is my old 87%.
It SHOULD be able to charge with 30 amps right up to the top since there is ZERO risk of exceeding 4.2 volts.

Bet they currently don't have the ability/software to instruct the BMS to do that.

 

[SmartElectric]

I used to be able to charge to 100% in about an hour from 30% (my new 15%)

So, my 2013 Tesla S85 early build with original "A" pack has always charged at the speeds I listed, which closely match what you're seeing now. For L2 charging, I have many examples of 1h from 90% to 100% sessions, average 8kW, less than the 10kW the onboard L2 charger is capable of.

 

[DJRas]

Bet they currently don't have the ability/software to instruct the BMS to do that.

That is how the old 60kWh loaded with 75kWh packs behaved.
SO, they CAN!

 

[Evoforce]

So, my 2013 Tesla S85 early build with original "A" pack has always charged at the speeds I listed, which closely match what you're seeing now. For L2 charging, I have many examples of 1h from 90% to 100% sessions, average 8kW, less than the 10kW the onboard L2 charger is capable of.

So the bottom line is... nothing has been taken from you, just the rest of us that have been capped and reduced you may feel that we should just accept it?

 

[qwk]

I used to be able to charge to 100% in about an hour from 30% (my new 15%).
This completely does not make sense now that my 100% is my old 87%.
It SHOULD be able to charge with 30 amps right up to the top since there is ZERO risk of exceeding 4.2 volts.

It sounds like your battery is on the verge of collapse/fire, and Tesla is doing everything it can through software, so they don’t have to replace the pack before the warranty is up.

On a side note, this battery mess is brewing to be a shitstorm of battery replacements, just like the early drive unit fiasco.

 

[qwk]

So, my 2013 Tesla S85 early build with original "A" pack has always charged at the speeds I listed, which closely match what you're seeing now. For L2 charging, I have many examples of 1h from 90% to 100% sessions, average 8kW, less than the 10kW the onboard L2 charger is capable of.

What does level 2 charging have to do with this thread?

How loud would you squeal if Tesla reduced your charge to that of your Smart overnight?

 

[SmartElectric]

nothing has been taken from you, just the rest of us that have been capped and reduced you may feel that we should just accept it?

Attempts to continue to put some alterior motive on my contribution to this thread notwithstanding, my focus is to provide a data point. If you accept that Tesla programmed the BMS on an original battery spec S from 2013 similar to the behaviour reported for capped cars then my factual posts are of value.

I surmise Tesla has used an algorithm on A pack cars that appears to be in line with one it perhaps is now using for some subset of newer cars for reasons no one here knows.

Hope you or someone finds that to be an interesting data point.