Summon Changing to Smartphone Only (According to Consumer Reports)

[mgboyes]

Fortunately, I would bet that Tesla would keep the fob summon functionality as they seem to always have added functionality to the fob rather than removing it (e.g. charge port door opening...)

Actually they previously removed the facility to wind down all the windows by pushing and holding the roof buttton, because people were accidentally actuating it while the fob was in their pocket and cars were getting rained into.

Yes, I have experimented with this several times and it always stops. YMMV. I have always thought we should have to keep the frunk or trunk pressed the whole time. Otherwise, I could see setting it off accidentally in my purse at some point.

Good point! Given that the previous push-and-hold-roof option was removed precisely because of accidental activation, I'd say this is a valid concern!

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I'd say that the bigger issue here is that the current fob just cannot be the means by which you control summon in the future. Summon is going to get more sophisticated, and the fob doesn't have a screen, or any kind of feedback facility, etc. It's not really good for anything more than an on/off control input.

So as much as we intuitively like the idea of the fob in the short term, it can't be the long term solution. I guess bluetooth connectivity from car to phone might be the way forward, or a new type of fob.

The BMW 7 series gets around this by having a fob with a touchscreen on it that lets you check all sorts of car-related info, and also activate their version of Summon (ironically in all markets *except* the US).

 

[BertL]

Actually they previously removed the facility to wind down all the windows by pushing and holding the roof buttton, because people were accidentally actuating it while the fob was in their pocket and cars were getting rained into.

Good point! Given that the previous push-and-hold-roof option was removed precisely because of accidental activation, I'd say this is a valid concern!

Personally, I understand the change made to prevent the pano roof opening by holding a single button on the FOB. In a previous FOB cover that was too tight, I had my frunk and trunk opening sporadically as I got in and out of my MS -- that took me a while to figure out where the gremlins were and change FOB covers.

...BUT, if Tesla still required one to FIRST push and hold the center button until lights flash, THEN require the frunk or trunk button to be held down the whole time Summon is in progress (and when you lift off it STOPS and you have to start over from Step 1), I see that as a very reasonable and safe process. That combination of events accidentally being triggered with the FOB in your pocket or purse must be astronomically low. It seems like a simple fix, and Tesla can then figure out how they want to handle future (AutoPilot V2?) more sophisticated needs with a new FOB or some other method to go along with it.

 

[Haggy]

Canadians don't have the summon to complaint. :frown:

Canadians aren't good at complaining anyway. When they have a problem with somebody, they just have him move to the US and tell him to run for president.

 

[andrewket]

I sure hope this isn't true. If it is, I likely won't use summon that much anymore.

 

[sorka]

The app would be useless to me. Not only does it often take 30 seconds or more to connect when the car is awake, when it's not awake and "power saving" mode is on, it often never connects or takes minutes which is usually the case when it's in my garage in the morning.

So let me get this straight. We get lane holding only long enough for Car and Driver to give it rave reviews and then it's pretty much disabled by requiring constant nags, limiting the speed, and ping ponging between lane markers when it didn't used it. Smart. Wait until a major publication gives it awesome reviews before the safety lawyers step in and end the fun.

Rinse and repeat with Summon.

How do they figure they're going to do version 2 where the Tesla exists the garage and then turns and drives down your circular drive to meet you in the front of your house?

If this update comes through, I will just simply not install it. I use summon all the time and would not use it at all if I had to use it with the app.

 

[Todd Burch]

If Tesla goes the app route only, that would seriously suck. I could pull the car out manually in the time it connects and initiates.

If they require you to hold the FOB, that would be a step back, but tolerable.

Best solution is to just walk in front of the car to do an emergency stop. Quick, easy, and reliable. Stops every time for me.

 

[jcoverton]

I worry about the safety of the change. My car loses wifi connectivity when it leaves the garage. It still tries to hold it with one bar and does not switch to cellular until I leave the property. Communication is limited during the transition. For example, I have a hard time turning on climate control when parked in my driveway. Depending on how the dead man switch worked this could make the app dangerous to control summons. Event driven software models would report when the finger is lifted. If I start it in the garage on wifi and then lose signal outside I may not be able to stop it if the app does not have connectivity to report the finger being lifted. The key fob always works and I trust it to stop the car. It would be better to have the key fob have a deadman feature as the car would know when it stopped transmitting.

The real issue is that before summoning your car make sure it will not hit something in the way. I check both sides and stand in front when moving forward and in the back when backing up. Sitting in your car and backing up without checking what's behind the car is no different than summoning the car without being clear about what's behind the it. Changing from the key fob to the app adds layers which lower safety.

 

[Todd Burch]

They can still do this safely via the app: While the button's down, the app sends "keep going" messages. That way, if connectivity is lost in any way, the messages are no longer received and the car stops.

Unfortunately that means summon mode will "accidentally" abort way more often than it needs to.

 

[jcoverton]

They can still do this safely via the app: While the button's down, the app sends "keep going" messages. That way, if connectivity is lost in any way, the messages are no longer received and the car stops.

I have developed for IOS but am not an expert. The button controls use events which trigger when the user does something. Code get's triggered by the events and nothing happens until the user does something, like press or release or move off the button. There may be a way to loop while the button is down, but this does not match how I was taught to program for the iPhone. It will be interesting to see how they implement this.

 

[sorka]

They can still do this safely via the app: While the button's down, the app sends "keep going" messages. That way, if connectivity is lost in any way, the messages are no longer received and the car stops.

Unfortunately that means summon mode will "accidentally" abort way more often than it needs to.

Yea, but I have the same situation where when the car is just pulling out of the door, it's hanging on to wifi but not actually getting anything. I have go another 60 feet or so before it switches over to 3g. So even if I were willing to use the app, it simply wouldn't work most of the time.

I use summon most often when pulling out of parking spots to avoid having squeeze in. I frequently drive to Yosemite Valley and park in Curry Village. The 3g for AT&T is spotty but it's completely absent for Verizion. I get no data at all there.

Even in populated areas like the Bay Area, the car frequently loses 3g connectivity until I reboot it.

 

[scottf200]

You don't have to step in front of it to stop it. Per the release notes just touch a handle.

MODEL X SOFTWARE RELEASE NOTES v7.1

Canceling: You can stop Model X at any time while Summon is in progress using the mobile app,
by pressing anybutton on the key fob,
or by pressing any Model X door handle.

 

[meloccom]

We haven't got summon in Australia yet and if they restrict the usage to the app it will become almost unusable for me when it does arrive.
My main intended use was to move my Model S out of my tight basement car space with the fob, as there's no cell signal in the basement I won't be able to use the app either.
I think if possible they could change the Summon initiation signal to press and hold both front and rear fob buttons, then require all buttons to be released before holding down only the front or rear button to move the car. I think this will reduce the likelihood of an unintended movement to virtually nil.

 

[Caligula]

We haven't got summon in Australia yet and if they restrict the usage to the app it will become almost unusable for me when it does arrive.
My main intended use was to move my Model S out of my tight basement car space with the fob, as there's no cell signal in the basement I won't be able to use the app either.
I think if possible they could change the Summon initiation signal to press and hold both front and rear fob buttons, then require all buttons to be released before holding down only the front or rear button to move the car. I think this will reduce the likelihood of an unintended movement to virtually nil.

I believe that you don't need cell reception just wifi.

 

[wk057]

I don't like this idea.

I've actually found one real use for summon, and I love it the way it is for it: In my garage, my two trash/recycling bins are stored in front corner by the garage door, which is blocked by my car's nose generally. So, on trash day I've been unplugging the car, starting summon, and letting the car pull out in the driveway while I load up the last of the trash. Then I pull the bins out and away from the car's spot, and summon it back into the garage while I pull the bins to the end of the driveway. By the time I'm walking back towards the house it's pretty much back in place, so I plug it back in, close the garage door, and head back inside. The I repeat to bring the bins back in. Definitely beats having to jump in and move the car every time. (Edit: Just to note, my driveway is pretty large, and there's basically no chance of the car hitting anything on the way in or out even if I'm not paying attention to it. My driveway is long enough so that it doesn't even make it out of the garage and half-way down the driveway.)

So, this change would quite literally make the feature useless. If I have to stand there with my finger on a button in order for it to work, then I'm not gaining anything at all vs just hopping in and moving the car myself. I know how to park in my garage, so it's not like it's doing something I can't do. I'm not going to take time to get my phone, open the app, wait for it to connect, then stand there and hold a button just so I can watch my car move by itself. That'd just be stupid. It would take less time and effort to jump in and move the car.

*sigh* Here we go with Tesla crippling features again...

 

[AllenWong]

I don't like this idea.

I've actually found one real use for summon, and I love it the way it is for it: In my garage, my two trash/recycling bins are stored in front corner by the garage door, which is blocked by my car's nose generally. So, on trash day I've been unplugging the car, starting summon, and letting the car pull out in the driveway while I load up the last of the trash. Then I pull the bins out and away from the car's spot, and summon it back into the garage while I pull the bins to the end of the driveway. By the time I'm walking back towards the house it's pretty much back in place, so I plug it back in, close the garage door, and head back inside. The I repeat to bring the bins back in. Definitely beats having to jump in and move the car every time. (Edit: Just to note, my driveway is pretty large, and there's basically no chance of the car hitting anything on the way in or out even if I'm not paying attention to it. My driveway is long enough so that it doesn't even make it out of the garage and half-way down the driveway.)

So, this change would quite literally make the feature useless. If I have to stand there with my finger on a button in order for it to work, then I'm not gaining anything at all vs just hopping in and moving the car myself. I know how to park in my garage, so it's not like it's doing something I can't do. I'm not going to take time to get my phone, open the app, wait for it to connect, then stand there and hold a button just so I can watch my car move by itself. That'd just be stupid. It would take less time and effort to jump in and move the car.

*sigh*

Just use Remote S I'm not going to make you hold any button.

 

[wk057]

Just use Remote S I'm not going to make you hold any button.

When you make the Android version of Remote S, I'll use it. Heck, I'd buy it for double what you charge Apple folks. I refuse to give $0.01 to Apple.

Edit: Actually, that doesn't fully solve the issue anyway, since I can access the buttons on my fob with zero effort (I always have my keys clipped on my belt loop) but to use the app I have to get my phone out, unlock it, open the app, wait for connect, etc etc etc.

Edit edit: Actually, I'll just buy a third key fob, and rig it up to a button in my garage that activated summon. lol.

 

[Todd Burch]

I actually think that touching the door handle (which I don't recall seeing in the initial release notes) may actually satisfy this concern completely. It would be reliable, easy, and safe. Hopefully Tesla just stops with that and considers the concern addressed.

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I have developed for IOS but am not an expert. The button controls use events which trigger when the user does something. Code get's triggered by the events and nothing happens until the user does something, like press or release or move off the button. There may be a way to loop while the button is down, but this does not match how I was taught to program for the iPhone. It will be interesting to see how they implement this.

You could simply have the button down event start a timer which fires a "keep going" event every second or something like that, and have the button up event stop the timer. It's a trivial programming task, but it's true that the connectivity issues would mean that this would be a highly unreliable solution.

 

[RedSoxFan18]

I'm a regular summon user as my garage is narrow. I prefer the FOB but the app works for me. My cell phone will always be charged at home, but it would really suck to be in the wild, use summon to park in a narrow place, and then be stranded with a dead cell battery.

 

[wk057]

I actually think that touching the door handle (which I don't recall seeing in the initial release notes) may actually satisfy this concern completely. It would be reliable, easy, and safe. Hopefully Tesla just stops with that and considers the concern addressed.

Yeah, actually this would be perfect. The handles, being hard wired and all, should be pretty easily accessible on a car traveling at < 0.5 MPH.

Problem solved. Not that I think there is a problem with the existing implementation anyway.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

Yeah, actually this would be perfect. The handles, being hard wired and all, should be pretty easily accessible on a car traveling at < 0.5 MPH.

Problem solved. Not that I think there is a problem with the existing implementation anyway.

I've really never used the app for summon, but unfortunately if summon is going to be something more than a parlor trick, the app is the only solution. Summon, as I originally pictured it (perhaps naively) would be able to meet me at a specific location (base of the driveway, etc.). Ultimately you will need to provide more information to summon than is available from the key fob. The fob is already overloaded, with single, double, and long presses for most of the buttons. Now it's modal -- hold down the center button to put it into summon mode. There is only so many ways the current fob can be overloaded.

Also, I was a bit dismayed to hear of the need to hold down a button. But the truth is in the current implementation you do need to watch the car at all times. It's easier to release a button to stop summon than to find the "stop" button on the app (although pressing the fob is pretty mindless). In fact, I took out my son's bike hanging on the garage wall once using summon and not watching it. The handle bar got caught in the rear wheel well. Destroyed the handle bar stem; no damage whatsoever to the car. Still don't know how I got away with that. Admittedly, it would have happened had I driven the car out manually, but had I been watching it I would have stopped it on time.

To be clear, I'm not happy with the change but it seems the app as the sole means of control is inevitable.