Summons feature flaw

[Barklikeadog]

It is disappointing to see everyone attack wussy in the first few pages.

People have had real issues with autopilot or summon or whatever, where the car performed in an unexpected way.
Everyone cries BS!
But what if it were you?

How would you feel if you were, for example, using autopilot and it steered you into an obstacle before you could react?
Tesla says that you are lying.. operator error.
The 'community' here says that you are lying.
But you know what actually happened and are unable to prove it.

You wouldn't like it very much if everyone declared you a liar.

Don't jump to conclusions.

 

[David29]

Agree that loss of phone connectivity is likely what initiated the lack of responsiveness but every time in past when there was a connectivity issue the car would just stop. It has never continued moving. I did not have the fob on me at the time so couldn’t try to override with that or run to the car to try and stop it that way.
It still doesn’t explain why it would run over a straw man and hit the curb. I don’t know what the minimum curb height is for the car to recognize but when I park the car it always recognizes curbs of similar height.

From my own testing of auto park and of the parking sensors, I have observed cases in which the car has failed to detect granite curbs about 6 inches high. That surprised me and cost me some curb rash. Fortunately it has only happened once. But it is also less likely to detect asphalt curbs, especially if they are less than 6 inches high or if they are rounded. In my own parking space, the rear curb is rounded asphalt (the asphalt was imperfectly formed when they made the border for the parking lot), and the parking sensors do not see the curb.

None of this necessarily explained what (if anything) actually went wrong with your car. i am simply pointing out that the parking sensors may not always detect curbs.

Two other points. The summon maximum distance is 39 feet, so the car could definitely travel further than the width of your street if indeed it is only 30 feet. And the other is that I always use the key fob for summon. Cell phones are just too indirect and can lose signal. When i click on the fob to stop the car, it stops instantly.

Thanks for sharing your experience, even though you are no doubt embarrassed and you are getting a certain amount of crap from some people. Some good lessons here for other folks to know about.

 

[David29]

View attachment 260783 View attachment 260784
Alright. Kids in bed now. One last post before I do the same. For those concerned about the safety of the kids scarecrows, they are still as inanimate as ever. One in dark blue now safely seated but a bit worse for the wear from being moved in and out of the street but the other one survived quite nicely by remaining safely seated throughout the holiday.
And apologies again for the over dramatic title and wording of my post although I still maintain that something went wrong other than stupid human error which I was guilty of.

I would be surprised if the Tesla front sensors would detect that. Be an interesting test, though. Sonar needs something solid to bounce off.

 

[wussy]

From my own testing of auto park and of the parking sensors, I have observed cases in which the car has failed to detect granite curbs about 6 inches high. That surprised me and cost me some curb rash. Fortunately it has only happened once. But it is also less likely to detect asphalt curbs, especially if they are less than 6 inches high or if they are rounded. In my own parking space, the rear curb is rounded asphalt (the asphalt was imperfectly formed when they made the border for the parking lot), and the parking sensors do not see the curb.

None of this necessarily explained what (if anything) actually went wrong with your car. i am simply pointing out that the parking sensors may not always detect curbs.

Two other points. The summon maximum distance is 39 feet, so the car could definitely travel further than the width of your street if indeed it is only 30 feet. And the other is that I always use the key fob for summon. Cell phones are just too indirect and can lose signal. When i click on the fob to stop the car, it stops instantly.

Thanks for sharing your experience, even though you are no doubt embarrassed and you are getting a certain amount of crap from some people. Some good lessons here for other folks to know about.

Been a busy morning at work so just had a chance to check these posts. I will hopefully end my comments with one final set of thoughts and lessons learned.
1. I take full blame for using what turned out be an inflammatory initial post. I was definitely frustrated after not getting answers from Tesla and an attention grabbing headline I thought would get more readers and therefore find someone who might have answers or have had similar issues. I was wrong though because all it did was stir up resentment and made it more difficult to get my legitimate questions answered. I won’t sit in judgement of how other people responded because I believe it is up to them to decide what their international were behind their posts. I know my own intentions and they weren’t malignant but I can see why they were taken that way.
2. Although I never operated the car remotely with children in front or behind the car (only as they approached to get their intention) it was already clear to me before I posted this that it was still a stupid idea. I was willing to own up to it as I did to the Tesla dealership because I wanted to be honest and hopefully get constructive answers.
3. I will not be reporting to NTSB because from what I have learned, part of the problem was user error and I suspect this is such a rare confluence of events that no investigation would find anything of benefit. I still hope the Tesla engineers look into it more as I know the car should stop with loss of connectivity and didn’t but as noted, any car can have something go wrong. I think this is by far the best and safest car I have driven. I did have auto park hit the curb once but the is generally very reliable and also quite fun to drive.
4. I did learn about touching the door handle and had some useful posts about curb height that will hopefully allow me to use summon with more confidence in the future.
5. I think I will still refrain from a facebook, twitter or any other account. I prefer face to face communication. Thank you again to all who helped me learn from this experience

 

[AnxietyRanger]

That's not just something specific to Tesla. If I came on any other forum and did what the OP did, some of the reactions would be a lot worse.

Oh, this one is (almost) Tesla Motors Club specific... I've been around for decades on a multitude of sites and newsgroups before that. The only place that resembles this even remotely are certain Apple haunts (and similar). @wussy got the full Tesla short service.

If I came today, and said my Tesla blew up, and it's a problem, even though I've been on this forum for 2 years, and even though I've made it pretty clear that I actually own a Model S, I would still provide proof or expect skepticism.

Yet OP did no such thing. What he/she did was report that Summon failed to stop as the app became unresponsive. There was nothing outlandish about the claim at all. Frankly I don't even agree the style was sensationalized, but for those who disagree, the claim still was hardly unbelievable.

But based on many facts of how the context was posted, I'm not surprised people went out to call him a lair and discredit him.

Oh, I wasn't surprised either. But my analysis of why that happened differs from your's.

I've been talking about this phenomenon on TMC for a long time. I even wrote this recently: Suggestion: Welcome courtesy rule with new members And once again the doubters were proven wrong in this thread.

So no, he was not bullied. Were people rude to him? Sure. Was his OP dramatized? Sure. Do the two equate? That's where we'll have to diverge our opinions.

I disagree. I consider attempts to discredit a honest person - and ganging up/piling up related to that - bullying. Consider in the sense of schoolyard bullying.

 

[jeffro01]

I disagree. I consider attempts to discredit a honest person - and ganging up/piling up related to that - bullying. Consider in the sense of schoolyard bullying.

Call it what you will... I look at these threads through a very simple set of lenses...

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you're going to write a post like the OP did then you should be prepared to back that up or save us all the trouble and include your evidence with your post... Is that really too much to ask?

Jeff

 

[Krazaak]

Been a busy morning at work so just had a chance to check these posts. I will hopefully end my comments with one final set of thoughts and lessons learned.
1. I take full blame for using what turned out be an inflammatory initial post. I was definitely frustrated after not getting answers from Tesla and an attention grabbing headline I thought would get more readers and therefore find someone who might have answers or have had similar issues. I was wrong though because all it did was stir up resentment and made it more difficult to get my legitimate questions answered. I won’t sit in judgement of how other people responded because I believe it is up to them to decide what their international were behind their posts. I know my own intentions and they weren’t malignant but I can see why they were taken that way.
2. Although I never operated the car remotely with children in front or behind the car (only as they approached to get their intention) it was already clear to me before I posted this that it was still a stupid idea. I was willing to own up to it as I did to the Tesla dealership because I wanted to be honest and hopefully get constructive answers.
3. I will not be reporting to NTSB because from what I have learned, part of the problem was user error and I suspect this is such a rare confluence of events that no investigation would find anything of benefit. I still hope the Tesla engineers look into it more as I know the car should stop with loss of connectivity and didn’t but as noted, any car can have something go wrong. I think this is by far the best and safest car I have driven. I did have auto park hit the curb once but the is generally very reliable and also quite fun to drive.
4. I did learn about touching the door handle and had some useful posts about curb height that will hopefully allow me to use summon with more confidence in the future.
5. I think I will still refrain from a facebook, twitter or any other account. I prefer face to face communication. Thank you again to all who helped me learn from this experience

Glad your car escaped without any significant damage. I also don't really trust the phone app for summon. I'm on a microcell at my house and the phone switches between WiFi, microcell and LTE (with 1 bar) depending on where I stand in my driveway. I find the fob to respond more reliably.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Glad your car escaped without any significant damage. I also don't really trust the phone app for summon. I'm on a microcell at my house and the phone switches between WiFi, microcell and LTE (with 1 bar) depending on where I stand in my driveway. I find the fob to respond more reliably.

Have you experienced the car keeping moving after losing cell connection? Shouldn't it stop?

 

[Krazaak]

Well an app would be used over a fob due to the complexity of programming typically used for such tasks. I assume (and I say assume cause I don’t know) that summon is not as simple as many think. It is not a simple “forward” or “reverse” signal sent to the car. Each is actually a set of rolling code sent to the car and if the car does not see the rolling code then it will stop due to the watchdog seeing the signal is frozen. So to ask for all of this to be additionally packed into the existing fob would probably not be realistic.

Also a phone/app is password protected. Less chance of accidental trigger. So many reasons the phone is much much safer. Can you imagine the TMC threads we’d see due to accidental summons if enabled from a fob...

Wouldn’t want that around children either in the house. Would have to lock them keys down.

With the fob, you hold down the top for 2 seconds until the car chimes and the hazards begin flashing. Then you press either the front or rear of the fob to move in that direction.

 

[Krazaak]

Have you experienced the car keeping moving after losing cell connection? Shouldn't it stop?

I have dead man disabled, so the car moves until I tell it to stop or it detects an obstacle. I watch the car closely and am prepared to intervene if it misbehaves. I've worked with computers for too long to trust them.

That said, I doubt there's anything as advanced as rolling codes in play with the app and probably not the fob. I wouldn't be surprised if a lock-up on the phone could read the button as still pushed once you removed your finger. There's so much crap on smart phones today, they're barely suitable for making phone calls...

 

[Max*]

The internet would be a different place if everyone's computer were wired with a boxing glove capable of punching them in the face for being an ass.

LOLOL!

 

[Joe F]

IMHO, TMC could use less armchair quarterbacking, and a lot less pontificating.

IMHO

 

[Max*]

Yes I have. I know when larger than usual indentification with a company or product (and/or investor sentiment) affects the response. This one belongs to that group of sites. Luckily not all of Internet is like that.

I'm glad we have an expert in our midst.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Why are you still defending him, he already said he did such thing. Are you doing it just because you like to argue? Really? What's the point of bringing this point up over and over again. Even the OP doesn't agree with your assessment of what he did.

OP is a far more reconciliatory person (and probably a better person) than I am, I think. That's the main difference.

 

[Max*]

IMHO, TMC could use less armchair quarterbacking, and a lot less pontificating.

IMHO

I didn't know hot to rate your comment. On one hand I laughed and wanted to give it a "Funny", on the other hand I agree and wanted to give it a "Thumbup".

 

[AnxietyRanger]

But does isolating him, just one person, help or hurt the discussion? Does that cross the line into being a bully?

No. Calling out a bully once does not a bully make.

 

[Joe F]

I didn't know hot to rate your comment. On one hand I laughed and wanted to give it a "Funny", on the other hand I agree and wanted to give it a "Thumbup".

Pity there's no "Ain't that the truth!" button. (Grammatically incorrect, but, it's the 'net)

Oh yeah, IMHO.

In all seriousness, there are those who just want to stir the pot for some reason. I try to ignore them, even to the point of refraining from going out of my way to hit a meaningless "disagree" button, which seems to be overused by some, for whatever reason. To each their own.

 

[Max*]

No. Calling out a bully once does not a bully make.

Ah, ok, so a one-time comment is OK to live in the past, partial quote a message to make your point, and call out a member who later apologized? Got it.

Makes perfect sense to me too!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Ah, ok, so a one-time comment is OK to live in the past, partial quote a message to make your point, and call out a member who later apologized? Got it.

Makes perfect sense to me too!

Well, it should:

I am not, and was not, talking about right now. I answered his question with what happenED (happened --> past tense) in this thread, I used the word "was" not "is" to describe the tense, in case that wasn't clear.

 

[Max*]

Well, it should:

Round and round we go

are you just randomly looking for misguided quotes of mine to pull out and disagree with? Or to intentionally take out of context?

Also, you never answered my question.