Supercharger Announcement 2013/05/30

[spacexfan]

"It's rather silly to go out of the way (putting miles on the car and wasting time) just to get free juice (even if it's expensive otherwise)."

Oh you have never been to europe before! People will drive to another country just to fill up their fuel tank (no more than ~50km of course )! What I want to say is that people will waste their time just to get free juice....

 

[dpodoll]

sorry, but all answers are dissatisfying. I personally would charge all the time free here in europe. Electricity is VERY expensive. and once these new model s will be sold used, just like s class mercedes, people will want to save money. In the long term, they are bankrupt.

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there is no car manifacturer who offeres free gasoline, forever. This just seems nonesense to me or it is all a scam.

I think you might be on to something here. Go ahead and short it just to show us all how serious you are.

 

[Todd Burch]

"It's rather silly to go out of the way (putting miles on the car and wasting time) just to get free juice (even if it's expensive otherwise)."

Oh you have never been to europe before! People will drive to another country just to fill up their fuel tank (no more than ~50km of course )! What I want to say is that people will waste their time just to get free juice....

Your cost per mile for gasoline in Europe is what--5 to 10 times larger than your cost per mile using electricity with the Model S? This problem is solved.

As many others have said, Elon Musk is probably the most accomplished entrepreneur of our time. You are free and welcome to question the viability of his ideas, but I'll caution you: those who sell Elon short are usually--almost always--wrong.

 

[spacexfan]

"Go ahead and short it just to show us all how serious you are"

When trading, please make sure: NEVER SELL ANY COMPANY WITH ELON INVOLVED. I thougt about shorting tesla very often, I would have always lost my money. All of it. :biggrin:

 

[xray]

People use their houses to charge their car because that is where the car spends most of its time when not on the road. No one is going to charge at a supercharger daily because you won't live close enough to want to charge daily, and it isn't necessary given the battery pack size of the Model S. Much more convenient to charge at home and have to pay for the electricity compared to driving 50-100 miles just to charge at a supercharger.

I wouldn't go as far as saying no one will attempt to use the SC daily. I'm sure if you live in Gilroy, there's a good chance you could charge very close to daily and get what you need to commute up to the Bay area. But I think it's fair to say that the majority of Tesla owners don't live in such close proximity that it would be convenient to pull off such a feat. Instead, most owners will use the SC stations as waypoint on a longer trip.

 

[spacexfan]

"Your cost per mile for gasoline in Europe is what--5 to 10 times larger than your cost per mile using electricity with the Model S? This problem is solved."

Not necessarily:

80KWH/400Km=0,2KWH/Km -->20KWH/100Km, 0,4 ct/KWH --->8EUR/100Km

Diesel: car: 6l/100Km ----> 1,4 EUR/litre --->8,4EUR/100Km

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0,4 ct i mean EUR

 

[WarpedOne]

I'm sure Elon loves all the people who bet their money on him failing. He laughs all the way to the bank.

 

[Jackyche]

Is anyone else concerned that almost all of the SC's are located outside of city? Its wonderful for travel but what do you do once you get there? Your hotel might not have charger, your buddy's place will prob only have a 110v plug. The local charging stations will likely be some wimpy 30amp stuff. Even at 70amp HPC, you're still looking at 4+ hours of charging.

 

[Royal TS(LA)]

Perhaps a metal-air battery is really a temporary means to get more people to buy Tesla cars, until drastically improved battery tech is commercially available.

 

[kgb]

Is anyone else concerned that almost all of the SC's are located outside of city? Its wonderful for travel but what do you do once you get there? Your hotel might not have charger, your buddy's place will prob only have a 110v plug. The local charging stations will likely be some wimpy 30amp stuff. Even at 70amp HPC, you're still looking at 4+ hours of charging.

RV parks have 50 Amp service

 

[dsm363]

"you are wrong"
I mean that's always the response that I get. I'm looking for a meaningful answer. But I quess Tesla will know it better than I do.

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"It is highly unlikely to have 100% utilization 24/7 on each and every 10-12 stall site. It is likely that a single charger is 240kWH and handles 4 stalls, so there's really 480-720kWH per site. Further, the rate tails off as the car gets fully charged. Probably half utilization as a result. So they then put in enough solar to cover the energy expenditure (250+% during day to cover the night), which is basically buying the 25-30 years of electricity. So $300,000 per station covers the station + electricity for 25-30 years."

I hope you are right. But I hope some of you understand my concern.

If you are right and 10 years from now the supercharging network is bankrupting Tesla then they'll change it. Until then enjoy the free energy. If it really is that popular in Europe then you'll have to decide if your time in line for free energy is more or less valuable than just charging at home.

 

[vfx]

New obelisk too.

 

[dsm363]

Is anyone else concerned that almost all of the SC's are located outside of city? Its wonderful for travel but what do you do once you get there? Your hotel might not have charger, your buddy's place will prob only have a 110v plug. The local charging stations will likely be some wimpy 30amp stuff. Even at 70amp HPC, you're still looking at 4+ hours of charging.

They may handle this in the future but right now intercity travel is the big concern for most people it seems. Once demand spikes for EVs, hotels will have to start playing ball (like offering WiFi) or they will lose customers.

 

[dsm363]

New obelisk too.

View attachment 22860

Guess the old one got made fun of too much.

 

[NigelM]

Is anyone else concerned that almost all of the SC's are located outside of city? Its wonderful for travel but what do you do once you get there? Your hotel might not have charger, your buddy's place will prob only have a 110v plug. The local charging stations will likely be some wimpy 30amp stuff. Even at 70amp HPC, you're still looking at 4+ hours of charging.

Take a look through threads on hotels or on road trips using the search box. In more than 2 years driving electric I've never had a charging problem; there's folks out there who've been doing this longer than me and on longer trips. It might take a few minutes of planning/checking in advance but honestly, it's not an issue today.

 

[markb1]

Another picture (from http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger):

The Hawthorne station is looking a little bit eclectic.

 

[dflye]

RV parks have 50 Amp service

RV parks mostly don't let you check-in 24/7, some have restrictions / covenants, some aren't open in the winter, etc. Not to mention you'd be without transportation usually in BFE.

There really needs to be a network of the cheaper-to-install HPWC that are installed / maintained by locals (whether hotels, restaurants, other businesses, government funded locations like parks/museums) in "destination" locations.

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

"Your cost per mile for gasoline in Europe is what--5 to 10 times larger than your cost per mile using electricity with the Model S? This problem is solved."

Not necessarily:

80KWH/400Km=0,2KWH/Km -->20KWH/100Km, 0,4 ct/KWH --->8EUR/100Km

Diesel: car: 6l/100Km ----> 1,4 EUR/litre --->8,4EUR/100Km

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0,4 ct i mean EUR

Your calculations are done with €0,40 per kWh. That's probably the highest rate in Europe and not realistic. It costs half of that in many European countries, at least in mine it does.

You are right however in your earlier calculation that the solar panels will not cover the electricity needed for charging. The typical solar roof on a Supercharger-station has 100 panels (I counted them in the picture above), which in Europe will produce on average 20,000 kWh per year. If the average charge is 60 kWh (the batteries will not always be empty) that covers 333 charges, or barely one a day. That will not be enough.

But look at it this way: with an average price of €0,20 per kWh the extra charges will cost Tesla €12 per charge. The average driver will use a supercharger maybe 5-10 times a year (some will never, others will use it more often). Even if Tesla had to pay for all that electricity, which it does not, it would cost Tesla €60 to €120 per car per year. For a car that has been sold for an average of €80,000 with a profit margin of 25% (€20,000). So that worst case scenario of a yearly cost of €60 to €120 will definitely not bankrupt Tesla. And remember: the existence of the free supercharging network means Tesla will sell more cars, which means more cars with a €20,000 margin.

 

[Jackyche]

I think it is an issue because I run into it all the time. I would drive my Roadster to Vancouver, BC and stay at my parents condo.

There's a great HPC charger near the border so I "top off" before heading into the city. The condo where I stay at only has a 110v plug in the garage (unreliable cuz ppl unplug the thing, another story).

During the stay, I struggle to find charging stations where I stay long enough for a full charge.

The reason I think its an issue is because lots of people travel significant distances to visit family/friends instead of vacation road trips. Its not just a question of finding hotels with chargers. Its not just camp grounds.

I know it wouldn't be too good of an idea to stick a SC in the city center where lots of MS owners look to get a freebie instead of charging at home. It would swamp the thing. I guess what I'm getting at is, sure would be nice to have access to faster charging than 30amp stuff. Ie. can we have a ChadeMo adapter please?

Now I'm getting off topic. But just a thought.

Take a look through threads on hotels or on road trips using the search box. In more than 2 years driving electric I've never had a charging problem; there's folks out there who've been doing this longer than me and on longer trips. It might take a few minutes of planning/checking in advance but honestly, it's not an issue today.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

European SC announcements in a few months. First European deliveries in July.

Good!

@brianman

Thank you for the detailed report.