This was in North Bay, 215kW, 1482km/h:
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Supercharger - Blind River ON
- Thread starter JustADude
- Start date
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- Canada ontario supercharger
Not sure if it’s the charger or the weather or a combination of both.
Charged at home for about an hour - so battery was good and toasty. Got to the station with about 50% SoC.
Max charge rate I could get was about 75 Kw.
Called Tesla. They said my battery was at optimum temperature (26.5 C).
The best idea they could offer me as to why my charge was so low was because the charger itself was cold and no one had used it in a while - it is Blind River after all so they are likely correct that it isn’t used much.
I asked if it could be my car and they assured me it wasn’t. PHEW!
The “genius” idea by the government to enforce per minute charging and slow charging makes this a little frustrating - especially when your just a hair over the tier 2 mark.
I tried to express my concerns to the Tesla rep that slow charging was costing me extra money, but I’m not sure they fully grasped the concept. They also only thought there were only two V3 chargers in the world.
Will have to test in a warm summer day to see if that makes a difference...
Charged at home for about an hour - so battery was good and toasty. Got to the station with about 50% SoC.
Max charge rate I could get was about 75 Kw.
Called Tesla. They said my battery was at optimum temperature (26.5 C).
The best idea they could offer me as to why my charge was so low was because the charger itself was cold and no one had used it in a while - it is Blind River after all so they are likely correct that it isn’t used much.
I asked if it could be my car and they assured me it wasn’t. PHEW!
The “genius” idea by the government to enforce per minute charging and slow charging makes this a little frustrating - especially when your just a hair over the tier 2 mark.
I tried to express my concerns to the Tesla rep that slow charging was costing me extra money, but I’m not sure they fully grasped the concept. They also only thought there were only two V3 chargers in the world.
Will have to test in a warm summer day to see if that makes a difference...
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Is this a federal or provincial thing? I don't have my Tesla yet so don't have any experience with this yet. Soon though!
Just curious what can be done, or is already being done, about getting the relevant laws changed.
Tesla's time-based billing is less expensive than their per kWh pricing in almost all situations. When you're charging at the top of a tier, it's significantly less expensive. Don't complain too much. 
navguy12
Active Member
Not in Ontario.Tesla's time-based billing is less expensive than their per kWh pricing in almost all situations. When you're charging at the top of a tier, it's significantly less expensive. Don't complain too much.
The cheapest supercharger session in Ontario that I have managed was a session that worked out to 23 cents per kWh.
I started the session at 8% and ended at just under 50%.
The cheapest supercharger session that I have managed was 0$ and
The most expensive supercharger session that I have managed, was also 0$!
navguy12
Active Member
You paid for it in the price of your car...in 20 months and 45,000 kms, I have spent just under $130 on supercharging.
navguy12
Active Member
Perhaps you are right.
I was responding to:
...and comparing it to my home charging costs.
In Ontario, we have time based billing (I am unfamiliar with any jurisdiction where Tesla sells supercharger energy by being able to choose either by time or by unit of energy).
My "all in" ON peak price for hydro is just shy of 23 cents per kWh, whilst all my home charging is OFF peak at 12.2 cents, "all in"...
I arrived at a supercharger with a battery at spec temperature and low SOC.
I stopped the session prior to the point where tapering begins.
Even in this best case scenario, the total $$$ charged divided by the total kWh uploaded resulted in time based billing more expensive than unit based...
I'll go back to listening to the freezing rain pelting my roof now...
The comparison being discussed is between Tesla superchargers that bill based on how long you were connected (per minute charging) and Tesla superchargers that bill based on how many kWh of energy were delivered (per kWh charging). This has nothing to do with comparing charging at a supercharger with charging from non-supercharger sources. And the point is that when you compare superchargers that bill by the minute with those that bill by the kWh, it is essentially always cheaper to use those that bill by the minute. This is a straight result from the way that Tesla structures the billing tiers when supercharging is priced by the minute. The only exception is if you're spending a majority of time charging at a rate below 30 kW, e.g. you're using a non-optimally working supercharger stall or you're charging all the way to 100%.
navguy12
Active Member
Understood.
Now my question, stated another way: is there any state (or FERC power region) where one can choose between payment by the minute or by the kWh?
If yes, than thanks for the tip and I'll choose the time option when given the option.
If no, than how can one call a time option in one state/FERC power region "the cheaper option" if the state/FERC power region next door may have super cheap wholesale energy prices and supercharging is sold by the kWh?
No, you don't get to choose. Tesla sets the billing method. Their stated preference is to charge by the kWh as that's the most equitable for all concerned, but laws/regulations in some jurisdictions prevent them from selling electricity without being a regulated utility. Becoming one is waaaaaay more hassle than it's worth to Tesla, so in those locations they just charge for access to the service on a per minute basis. This was the starting point for this whole tangent. People were lamenting that laws/regulations were forcing Tesla to use time based billing instead of allowing them to follow their preference for charging by the kWh. But the fact is that in those jurisdictions, if Tesla was allowed to switch to per kWh billing people would end up paying more to supercharge, not less. So while $/kWh makes more sense, as consumers they wouldn't be benefiting financially from such a switch.
If Tesla wanted to make the pricing for per minute superchargers closer to per kWh superchargers, they'd need to add more tiers above 60 kW.
navguy12
Active Member
Okay, I went back into my records and I concur with your position (with only one caveat).
I went back and reviewed my records.
My only examples in using superchargers while in jurisdictions that charge by the kWh:
These two events were in the state of New York.
The first example works out to $US 0.24 per kWh ($CAD 0.32) in both instances.
Two random choices, one in Michigan and one in Ohio (my only other recorded US example is Kentucky and it was similar to Michigan):
My actual upload at this Michigan event was 28.5 kWh:
Cost was $US 0.202 per kWh ($CAD 0.266 per kWh).
My actual upload at this Ohio event was 41.0 kWh:
Cost was $US 0.136 per kWh ($CAD 0.188 per kWh).
So, I agree that supercharger energy that is sold by the kWh in New York state is more expensive than supercharger energy sold by the minute in Michigan or Ohio.
And this is my caveat: if New York state's underlying wholesale cost of energy is the same as the states of Ohio and Michigan, then yes, the "by the minute" arrangement can be shown to be better for the customer than the (more intuitive) "by the kWh".
I'm sure someone following this can point me to the chart of states that have the same underlying wholesale costs of energy and the ones that charge (to supercharge) by the minute are cheaper than those that charge (to supercharge) by the kWh. Cheers.
navguy12
Active Member
I found this chart, not sure if it is a chart that would be acceptable to this discussion:
Electricity Rates by State (Updated January 2020) – Electric Choice
From a chart in that link titled "January 2019":
Michigan is listed as $US 0.1607
New York is listed as $US 0.1930
Ohio is listed as $US 0.1264
Michigan is 17% less than New York whilst Ohio is 35% less than New York.
In my previous supercharger cost examples, the Michigan unit cost was 16% less than New York and the Ohio unit cost was 43% (!) less than New York.
Can someone show an example of a "by the minute" charge in a state whose wholesale cost of energy is higher than a "by the kWh" state and still show the "by the minute" cost as being lower?
This is starting to get very off topic for the Blind River Supercharger thread. Perhaps it's time to take this discussion to a new or existing thread about time-based vs kWh-based pricing.
navguy12
Active Member
Tesla's time-based billing is less expensive than their per kWh pricing in almost all situations. When you're charging at the top of a tier, it's significantly less expensive. Don't complain too much.
Agreed. Can you direct us to the correct one please? Thanks.
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